How do we manage the incel epidemic?

[Cekoviu]

Let me phrase this in a more explicit manner.
Risking your life to date someone doesn't mean you're risking your life to have sex with someone.

I would think that being an incel also isn't inherently sexual. These people would probably love to be in a relationship as well. It's not just a purely lustful proposition.

It's rather harder to argue that when the name of your movement literally is "involuntary celibates."
To be clear, I'm not saying that they wouldn't also like to be in a relationship, just that incelness is inherently sexual.

[Crockerland]

Homosexuality, the sexual orientation of being gay, isn't inherently sexual?

Let me phrase this in a more explicit manner.
Risking your life to date someone doesn't mean you're risking your life to have sex with someone.

They are risking their lives for intimacy, physical or otherwise, and the deprivation of that is what's affecting incels.

[Nova Cyberia]

Maybe this whole sexual revolution thing wasn't such a good idea after all.

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

It is fascinating that so many women these days seem to expect men to be perfectly happy and content without any sort of emotional or sexual fulfillment in their lives.

[Crockerland]

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

It is fascinating that so many women these days seem to expect men to be perfectly happy and content without any sort of emotional or sexual fulfillment in their lives.

If you can go on any online dating service and be worshiped by hundreds of men just for existing, it must be hard to sympathize with men who can't do the same.

[Nova Cyberia]

It is fascinating that so many women these days seem to expect men to be perfectly happy and content without any sort of emotional or sexual fulfillment in their lives.

If you can go on any online dating service and be worshiped by hundreds of men just for existing, it must be hard to sympathize with men who can't do the same.

"Not here looking for any hookups

I probably won't message you first

I have a 2-year old prince and he's my world. Baby dad was a dick and left me so now one of you has to take care of him. Who's gonna man up do it?

Don't even approach me if you're not at least 6'0".

"If you can't handle me at my worst then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." - Marilyn Monroe"

[Tyrghyria]

fascinating OP and equally insightful responses.

Tagging this for future reading

[Costa Fierro]

Maybe this whole sexual revolution thing wasn't such a good idea after all.

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

You don't understand how marriage used to function if you believe you were simply bartered.

[Great Minarchistan]

the incel epidemic is caused not by chads grabbing all girls, but rather due to an undersupply of women in the dating/marriage market CMV

[The Liberated Territories]

the incel epidemic is caused not by chads grabbing all girls, but rather due to an undersupply of women in the dating/marriage market CMV

This assumes that chad isn't fucking a larger proportion of them relative to the number.

[Great Minarchistan]

the incel epidemic is caused not by chads grabbing all girls, but rather due to an undersupply of women in the dating/marriage market CMV

This assumes that chad isn't fucking a larger proportion of them relative to the number.

It is, but the cohort "n" of chads within the market isn't large enough to constitute an actual threat

[Ostroeuropa]

Nobody ever died of a natural non-human caused death because of solitary confinement either. Yet social interaction is recognized as a basic and fundamental thing people need to be healthy. Sex is on the same spectrum of social interaction. Arguably that's one reason prostitution isn't sufficient, it is not sufficiently fulfilling in social terms because it is a pretense.

This is not to say the solution is to force people to have sex. It is merely to acknowledge that one measure of a society being unhealthy is the number of incels in that population, and it is a sign of social dysfunction suggesting cultural and social reforms may be necessary, same as if people were starved for social interaction we might up and decide to change to facilitate it more.

It also properly casts the incels situation in the appropriate light and brings the vitriolic hostility to them into a better focus for what it is; blaming the ill for their own illness.

It's not a problem that can be solved entirely in all cases, but it is one that can be acknowledged and mitigated with a goal toward minimizing instances.

This is a pretty good and insightful take. Believe it or not, the position of doing nothing and mocking the socially isolated for retreating from society is a conservative, rather than progressive viewpoint, as it is based on the idea that society cannot be improved, or that it is perfect as it is. Some kind of program to resocialize people would actually be progressive, but even this solution is mocked for the same reasons that conservatives mock welfare for the poor, that is, because of a feeling that everyone should be self sufficient.

Thanks bro, I appreciate that you acknowledged it. I understand your position of feeling obliged to both economically and socially intervene, albeit I think we place different emphasis, as I am largely the same. You're also a long time bro like me and also a dude facing some social trouble shit. Any time mate, message me whenever. Legit, I have plenty of folk who've TGd me and we've got on, you haven't, and you're welcome to.

[Costa Fierro]

the incel epidemic is caused not by chads grabbing all girls, but rather due to an undersupply of women in the dating/marriage market CMV

I disagree entirely with that notion, and let me explain to you why.

Relationships have always been limited by the availability of potential mates. Few people married outside of the town where they were born. This meant that distribution was roughly equal, and both men and women had little to no choice in their selection of partners. With increases in not only technological advancement, but the growing of social classes, both men and women had the ability to move further afield, and therefore broaden their pool of potential partner selection. As time progressed, technology became better and more and more people had the ability to not only move around, but broaden their partner selection. Advance technology further, combine it with a general discarding of the social restrictions that kept partner selection remotely normal and suddenly we start to see a shift in attitudes. Women become overt gatekeepers of sex and relationships, and the 19th century ideals of romance suddenly become reality. Men have to prove themselves in order to be considered suitable partners. The advance in technology enables women to become more selective. Internet dating and hookup apps like Tinder and Bumble arise and suddenly women have the ability to chose who they want to talk to and put in very little effort themselves, whereas they can and do expect men to jump through hoops just to get a "hi" or a "heyyy". The crazy thing is millions of men are happy and willing to do this every single day. It's insane. A lot of men who have spent significant amounts of time in this have come away with a less than stellar experience, and a lot of them seem to be of the opinion that online dating in of itself is a complete waste of time, effort, and money. Modern dating has become a numbers game, where you have to become a sociopath in order to get laid.

Let me ask you something: if dozens of women were throwing themselves at you every single day, would you say yes to the first one that messaged you? Hell no. I sure as hell wouldn't. You have a wide selection of potential sexual partners. You're no longer encumbered by social conventions to chose one and one only. If I was even a moderately attractive woman and I had men doing this to me I would do exactly the same. I can't fault women for what I would do if I was in their position because it's a logical response. I have choice, why not make the most of it? If I don't have to put any effort into making myself look like a catch to garner the attention of multiple partners, I'd consider that a sweet deal. Because it is.

The unfortunate byproduct of this freedom of choice is an underclass of men who have absolutely zero chance of getting partners. We rationalise it as their attitudes towards women as why it's happening, we don't consider that perhaps the advent of social media and the need to maintain an image of yourself that's unrealistic (as well as the double standards of expectations between men and women) is largely behind the existence of incels. They don't look right, they don't behave "normally", they're weird, they're introverts, they don't deserve to be treated like everyone. Fuck them, right?

[Katganistan]

You can buy them on your own when you're 21.

21? You can get those when your at least 18 it’s not fucking alcohol

Not everyone has a convenient shop in their town, and not every 18 year old has access to a credit card, but ok.

[Katganistan]

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

How many goats?

Dunno, cos I wasn't sold to the highest bidder (which is what a dowry is).

[Cekoviu]

This assumes that chad isn't fucking a larger proportion of them relative to the number.

It is, but the cohort "n" of chads within the market isn't large enough to constitute an actual threat

Why am I nauseous all of a sudden?

[Katganistan]

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

And such a practice would have been considered barbaric in Victorian era western societies. So what exactly is your point?

My point is that neither I, nor any other woman living in a free, Western society, owe it to anyone to get married to them, owe it to anyone to have sex with them, owe it to anyone to marry up and increase the family's status?

And if you don't think arranged marriages happened in Victorian era western societies, you're very much mistaken.
https://byuprideandprejudice.wordpress. ... n-england/

[Katganistan]

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

It is fascinating that so many women these days seem to expect men to be perfectly happy and content without any sort of emotional or sexual fulfillment in their lives.

I am responsible for my happiness, and mine alone. If that includes sharing my life with the man of my choice and that makes him happy, well and good.

Men are responsible for their own happiness as well, and have no right to demand others provide for them over the other person's own enlightened self-interest.

[Katganistan]

It is fascinating that so many women these days seem to expect men to be perfectly happy and content without any sort of emotional or sexual fulfillment in their lives.

If you can go on any online dating service and be worshiped by hundreds of men just for existing, it must be hard to sympathize with men who can't do the same.

Wow. Worshipped? Really?
I am no size 0 model, so no, not really. But keep on thinking you have it so tough and no woman knows what rejection is.

Also understand that even a woman who faces rejection has enough self-respect not to settle for anyone who has such a lousy view of women.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Wow. Worshipped? Really?

Yes, and he's not wrong.

[Costa Fierro]

I am responsible for my happiness, and mine alone. If that includes sharing my life with the man of my choice and that makes him happy, well and good.

Men are responsible for their own happiness as well, and have no right to demand others provide for them over the other person's own enlightened self-interest.

Good to know that spouses are not responsible for each others happiness.

Wow. Worshipped? Really?

Wouldn't say worshiped, it's more desperation.

[The Blaatschapen]

Maybe this whole sexual revolution thing wasn't such a good idea after all.

Seem just fine to me. I don't have to get bartered off to some guy twice my age because he gave my dad a herd of goats.

That would suck.

Sheep are better anyway.

[-Ocelot-]

the incel epidemic is caused not by chads grabbing all girls, but rather due to an undersupply of women in the dating/marriage market CMV

You speak of women as if they are products to be bought and sold.

It is, but the cohort "n" of chads within the market isn't large enough to constitute an actual threat

Why am I nauseous all of a sudden?

New to NationStates? You'll get used to such opinions don't worry.

[Ethel mermania]

How many goats?

Dunno, cos I wasn't sold to the highest bidder (which is what a dowry is).

Waiting for a better offer, I understand.

[Costa Fierro]

You speak of women as if they are products to be bought and sold.

Women are the ones doing the shopping. Dating is pretty much a market place, and men are for sale.

[Kaztropol]

A lot of romantic comedies, and disney films, have a male character seek a romantic/sexual relationship with a female character, and the plot is contrived such that the male is persistent in their advances, until eventually the object of their affections finally gives in/realises something. Their persistence 'proves' them as a suitable mate or something.
But ofc, nobody wants to see some ugly dude in a film, so the characters are always played by attractive actors, occasionally uglied up with makeup etc. Heroes are good looking. Villains are ugly.
This tends to create the idea that persistence is the key.
Which doesn't work out in the real world. Few people genuinely like someone who doesn't "take the hint". And then there are the somewhat sociopathic individuals, who'd use another person's unrequited attraction as a tool to manipulate them.
There's also the whole thing with the valentines card industry, and all the "for the special someone" themed adverts for crap.

Now, in the Western world at least, there is something like 105 boys to 100 girls in the population at birth, with the number of boys declining as they grow up, due to attrition. And eventually, women outnumber men by a certain point.
Which means at say teen-young adult-mid-20's age, there is a surplus of males.

Economically, women do not necessarily require a partner to provide an income to maintain a house and supply of food. But also, men do not need a woman to keep house, not with vacuum cleaners, automatic washing machines, and other household appliances. It's perfectly possible in modern times for someone to both work, and keep a one-person household, without running themselves ragged. Even in a more conventional two-adult household, it's not always a question of needing another person, but more of wanting one. My dog is a better listener than my husband. But I wouldn't swap my husband for another dog.
My daughter for example, can change a wheel on her car, replace bulbs, fill it up with oil and other fluids. She also knows how to put up shelves, and assemble flat-pack furniture. Basically she doesn't need a man for anything except fertilising her eggs, should she so choose. Even if she wasn't a lesbian, I'd have taught her these things. My father taught me basic motor vehicle maintenance, and that was back in the late 70's, when the idea of a girl changing a wheel on a car was one of the stock jokes by crappy comedians.

So, where the problem is, that men who never marry, never have children, have no stake in the future of society. Which does not help the acceptance of policies and behaviours that are necessary for civilisation to endure past their death. Why should someone with no stake, who is going to die in 50 years, care if the planet is hostile to civilisation in 100 years ?

Which creates a demographic more willing to vote for political parties with certain viewpoints. And also creates a population that has self-destructive thought patterns. Simmering resentment that boils over at points.

Ultimately, the only way to cure the incel epidemic is a bloody land war with severe economic depression and the rise of an ultra-conservative political party, making a two-adult household necessary, reducing the number of males to below that of females, creating a situation whereby women need a man, or at least a partner, and are compelled to marry one in order to own property.

But to manage it, there's not a lot that's possible to do, except maybe change the storylines and casting for "romantic comedies" and Disney films. Afaik, the only Disney animation with a butt-ugly male protagonist was The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and afaik, Quasimodo there was just misshapen, rather than actually ugly, with bad skin etc. And he didn't get the girl that he fell in love with either.