How do we manage the incel epidemic?

[The South Falls]

FWIW, I do know women, especially those who travel for a living, who preferred married men for one night stands or short flings, as those men are most likely not looking for something long term.

Tbh, I am missing the comparison.

Basically, the wedding ring is a false signal to boost the chances of someone finding you attractive, which leads eventually to sex.

So is makeup, for the record.

How do you propose to ban it? In what quantities? And what else should be banned.

[The South Falls]

So is cologne, so are sun dresses, so are red Ferraris.

Well, red ferraris aren't false, unless you rent it and claim you own it or something. Then it's a false signal.

Cologne is a false signal.

I'm not sure about sun dresses. I think i'd need some science for that.

They are open, and show skin. They also make one percieved you as more open.

[Liriena]

Not really.
"I look good like this." Do you wear that makeup.

"This color is scientifically proven to create a sensation of arousal." Push this person out of a car, do not stop the car, persist in your flight until you can no longer see them.

I mean, that's what makeup does.

There's a really neat article on it.

As with eyes, Russell found that women have darker mouths than men of the same skin tone. Manipulating lips to be darker than the rest of a woman's face makes it appear more feminine and attractive. But it turns out that the color of the lipstick matters, too. When women are ovulating, the relative concentration of the hormone estrogen rises in comparison to progesterone. This hormonal shift enhances vascular blood flow under the skin's surface, which has a number of side effects. Women near ovulation (when they're most fertile) report that they're more easily turned on and have more interest in sex. They also tend to have redder lips! By putting on reddening lipstick, women are accentuating a natural signal of fertility. On top of that, blood flow also increases during arousal, so those red lips are not only saying that she's young and healthy - they're specifically giving the illusion that she's interested in YOU, which of course is bound to draw attention. That increased blood flow also pinkens the cheeks, so blush, too, adds to this effect.

But it's not just bold colors that make a difference. Foundation and cover-up also play a large role in making a woman look more attractive. That's because we are naturally drawn to even skin tones. As our skin ages, it tends to get discolorations, whether they be from the sun, scars, or other kinds of damage. So it's not surprising that an even skin tone, no matter what the topology of the face is, strikes us as younger and thus more attractive. One study found that eye makeup and foundation were most important in explaining why makeup makes women appear more attractive and younger. Again, it's about producing offspring - youth in and of itself isn't all that useful except in the context of sex, fecundity, and fertility.

...

When you look at the science, it's no wonder that more than $40 billion dollars a year is spent on cosmetics. Makeup works, and it does so because our bodies are programmed to perceive sexual signals from the coloration of our faces. Makeup tricks our brains just enough for it to be worth the time and effort if you want to look hotter. Of course, modern media and the way women are portrayed certainly helps boost sales. But makeup has been used for centuries in disparate and diverse cultures in strikingly similar ways for a reason. In the end, we are drawn to makeup is that it taps into our primal urge to find a young, healthy mate who will produce lots of kids so that we can pass on our genes. As Theodosius Dobzhansky might have predicted, even makeup only makes sense in the light of evolution.

https://scienceblogs.com/observations/2 ... -of-makeup

So we know the anthropological and evolutionary psychology of make up. Which in terms of accusing women of consciously trying to manipulate men means... pretty much nothing?

[Galloism]

Basically, the wedding ring is a false signal to boost the chances of someone finding you attractive, which leads eventually to sex.

So is makeup, for the record.

How do you propose to ban it? In what quantities? And what else should be banned.

Mostly I was being ironic. You can't ban makeup, or falsely wearing a wedding ring, or renting a ferrari and saying you own it.

I'm not necessarily in favor of banning anything I find distasteful. I'm not that guy.

[Ethel mermania]

You're a Jedi Master?

I'm a lawyer, so it depends on how you look at it.

So candlelit dinners with wine and a chocolate dessert are out?

Are you hoping they'll like the chocolate dessert or that the serotonin will make them more malleable? One's fine one's creepy.

You are a lawyer? Shows what I know.

Who doesnt like chocolate? I am hoping the good food, sparkling conversation, the warm and cozy atmosphere, the louie and ella on the stereo, make them more malleable to making whoopie.

[Bear Stearns]

Well, red ferraris aren't false, unless you rent it and claim you own it or something. Then it's a false signal.

Cologne is a false signal.

I'm not sure about sun dresses. I think i'd need some science for that.

They are open, and show skin. They also make one percieved you as more open.

[Harkback Union]

Its not like they work anyway...

Personal experience says otherwise. The girl sees you are putting that much effort into her, its flattering. Granted that they accepted the date shows they are interested, but they knew the effort going into the meal was for them.

If she liked you, she'll appreciate it, sure...
but if she didnt...

[Bear Stearns]

Personal experience says otherwise. The girl sees you are putting that much effort into her, its flattering. Granted that they accepted the date shows they are interested, but they knew the effort going into the meal was for them.

If she liked you, she'll appreciate it, sure...
but if she didnt...

Whether a girl likes you or not determines whether or not your flirtations are cute or creepy.

[Salandriagado]

A decreasing birth rate is outright necessary to our continued survival. This is a non-problem.

[Ethel mermania]

FWIW, I do know women, especially those who travel for a living, who preferred married men for one night stands or short flings, as those men are most likely not looking for something long term.

Tbh, I am missing the comparison.

Basically, the wedding ring is a false signal to boost the chances of someone finding you attractive, which leads eventually to sex.

So is makeup, for the record.

Edit: saw your answer, your not, but why is making yourself attractive a bad thing?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Legalize, tax and, regulate prostitution.


Oh and millions more in mental health care spending.

[Ethel mermania]

They are open, and show skin. They also make one percieved you as more open.

OoooooOoo

[The South Falls]

I mean, that's what makeup does.

There's a really neat article on it.



https://scienceblogs.com/observations/2 ... -of-makeup

So we know the anthropological and evolutionary psychology of make up. Which in terms of accusing women of consciously trying to manipulate men means... pretty much nothing?

We should then make people go into a naked fight. This is the only way to show uninfluenced physical traits.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

How do you propose to ban it? In what quantities? And what else should be banned.

Mostly I was being ironic. You can't ban makeup, or falsely wearing a wedding ring, or renting a ferrari and saying you own it.

I'm not necessarily in favor of banning anything I find distasteful. I'm not that guy.

Makeup is a tool to enhance. If you believe everyone looks always like a million bucks without a little aid, I’m not sure you’re having proper expectations. To add, men also go to some lengths to “manipulate”. They exaggerate claims, brag about money or property. So you’re essentially complaining about a behavior you yourself have, very likely, engaged in.

[Liriena]

In hindsight, I'm not surprised that a conversation about a death cult of men who pathologically obsess over each other's physical presentation and destroy their self-esteem in the service of a violently sexist biotruther dogma has now pivoted to talking about how women are manipulating men because of the anthropology and evolutionary psychology of make up.

[Galloism]

I mean, that's what makeup does.

There's a really neat article on it.



https://scienceblogs.com/observations/2 ... -of-makeup

So we know the anthropological and evolutionary psychology of make up. Which in terms of accusing women of consciously trying to manipulate men means... pretty much nothing?

There's a reason women wear makeup to the bar but not to play video games.

And there's statistics. They may not state they use it to be more attractive, but they overwhelmingly admit it makes them more attractive than they are naturally.

https://www.her.ie/beauty/survey-why-we ... -it-173898

Seventy-five per cent of women said that they wear makup every day. While 18 per cent used it as "a tool to express their personalities" and 11 per cent confessed it was to attract a partner, 74 per cent of respondents revealed that they used makeup to feel more confident about themselves.

Over 82 per cent of suveyed women said that makeup made them look more attractive, while a whopping 43 per cent confessed that they would never be seen in public bare faced. Two thirds of women said they considered makeup a necessity in their everyday lives.

Incidentally, you shouldn't have to be beautiful to be confident. This is something society tells women that is not cool.

But to the point in question, 82% agreed it makes them look "more attractive" than they are naturally, "attractive" is defined as:

Definition of attractive
1a : arousing interest or pleasure : CHARMING
an attractive smile
b : APPEALING
an attractive offer
2 : having or relating to the power to attract
attractive forces between molecules

For the sake of brevity, we'll assume they aren't trying to attract oppositely charged molecules.

So they know for a fact this psychologically manipulates other people (as the other article noted, both men AND women) into thinking they are more attractive than they are. 82% are aware of this fact.


The thing is, when women do things to try and attract a partner that involves sending false signals, they're "empowered". When men do it, they're scum.

[Ethel mermania]

Personal experience says otherwise. The girl sees you are putting that much effort into her, its flattering. Granted that they accepted the date shows they are interested, but they knew the effort going into the meal was for them.

If she liked you, she'll appreciate it, sure...
but if she didnt...

She wouldn't have accepted the date in the first place.

Very few women I know like to fuck people they dont like, so first step is to be likeable.

[Galloism]

Basically, the wedding ring is a false signal to boost the chances of someone finding you attractive, which leads eventually to sex.

So is makeup, for the record.

Edit: saw your answer, your not, but why is making yourself attractive a bad thing?

I honestly don't think it is.

But I'm not happy with the unreasonable expectations of attractiveness for both men and women.

[The South Falls]

They are open, and show skin. They also make one percieved you as more open.

delish

How do you propose to ban it? In what quantities? And what else should be banned.

Mostly I was being ironic. You can't ban makeup, or falsely wearing a wedding ring, or renting a ferrari and saying you own it.

I'm not necessarily in favor of banning anything I find distasteful. I'm not that guy.

Good, phew. Thought we were going to have a 30 page debate there.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Man, I miss when your politics weren’t so reactionary.

I don't. Modern mainstream western liberal culture is awful and has led to a great many damaging things becoming normalized for no reason but some nebulous idea of "progress" and a desire to "be on the right side of history", as if such a thing even exists.

I mean, what you consider “damaging” is likely just the kind of stuff that just simply offends the sensibilities of reactionaries and their anti-freedom politics since most, if not all, forms of individual, social and political freedoms is considered “damaging” to the ultra conservative and traditionalist values of reactionaries.

[Liriena]

So we know the anthropological and evolutionary psychology of make up. Which in terms of accusing women of consciously trying to manipulate men means... pretty much nothing?

There's a reason women wear makeup to the bar but not to play video games.

And there's statistics. They may not state they use it to be more attractive, but they overwhelmingly admit it makes them more attractive than they are naturally.

https://www.her.ie/beauty/survey-why-we ... -it-173898

Seventy-five per cent of women said that they wear makup every day. While 18 per cent used it as "a tool to express their personalities" and 11 per cent confessed it was to attract a partner, 74 per cent of respondents revealed that they used makeup to feel more confident about themselves.

Over 82 per cent of suveyed women said that makeup made them look more attractive, while a whopping 43 per cent confessed that they would never be seen in public bare faced. Two thirds of women said they considered makeup a necessity in their everyday lives.

Incidentally, you shouldn't have to be beautiful to be confident. This is something society tells women that is not cool.

But to the point in question, 82% agreed it makes them look "more attractive" than they are naturally, "attractive" is defined as:

Definition of attractive
1a : arousing interest or pleasure : CHARMING
an attractive smile
b : APPEALING
an attractive offer
2 : having or relating to the power to attract
attractive forces between molecules

For the sake of brevity, we'll assume they aren't trying to attract oppositely charged molecules.

So they know for a fact this psychologically manipulates other people (as the other article noted, both men AND women) into thinking they are more attractive than they are. 82% are aware of this fact.

And yet, as per your own source, in 74% of the cases this has nothing to do with wanting to con men into having sex with them, and all to do with their self-image and self-esteem. They're not trying to breed.

[Galloism]

Mostly I was being ironic. You can't ban makeup, or falsely wearing a wedding ring, or renting a ferrari and saying you own it.

I'm not necessarily in favor of banning anything I find distasteful. I'm not that guy.

Makeup is a tool to enhance. If you believe everyone looks always like a million bucks without a little aid, I’m not sure you’re having proper expectations.

Of course not, but that should be ok. Our society puts unreasonable standards on both men and women.

To add, men also go to some lengths to “manipulate”. They exaggerate claims, brag about money or property. So you’re essentially complaining about a behavior you yourself have, very likely, engaged in.

When I was young and stupid, sure.

Now I try very hard to be who I am. I'm trying to be ok with that (easier said than done).

[Liriena]

There's a reason women wear makeup to the bar but not to play video games.

And there's statistics. They may not state they use it to be more attractive, but they overwhelmingly admit it makes them more attractive than they are naturally.

https://www.her.ie/beauty/survey-why-we ... -it-173898



Incidentally, you shouldn't have to be beautiful to be confident. This is something society tells women that is not cool.

But to the point in question, 82% agreed it makes them look "more attractive" than they are naturally, "attractive" is defined as:



For the sake of brevity, we'll assume they aren't trying to attract oppositely charged molecules.

So they know for a fact this psychologically manipulates other people (as the other article noted, both men AND women) into thinking they are more attractive than they are. 82% are aware of this fact.

And yet, as per your own source, in 74% of the cases this has nothing to do with wanting to con men into having sex with them, and all to do with their self-image and self-esteem. They're not trying to breed.

Now, you may say that there's something curious about the fact that so many women may tie their feeling of confidence to having an attractive physical appearance, but there's a gap between that and, again, trying to pull a "psychological manipulation in dating is fine because women use make up".

[Bear Stearns]

In hindsight, I'm not surprised that a conversation about a death cult of men who pathologically obsess over each other's physical presentation and destroy their self-esteem in the service of a violently sexist biotruther dogma has now pivoted to talking about how women are manipulating men because of the anthropology and evolutionary psychology of make up.

Have you ever actually joined a death cult? Don't knock it until you try it.

Since joining the Order of Vulture, I have achieved spiritual fulfillment, invaluable connections, and have desecrated several graves.

[Bear Stearns]

Someone PM their resume (you can sanitize it to make it anonymous if you wish). If it's good I'll get you an interview at my firm.