Bibles in Hotel Rooms

[Ethel mermania]

Not even information about the local area? Many hotels have such a book in each room.

Leave it in the lobby. If I want to know about the local museums, I'll seek it out. People generally already have plans when they arrive at the hotel.

You dont travel much do you.?

[Kernen]

Leave it in the lobby. If I want to know about the local museums, I'll seek it out. People generally already have plans when they arrive at the hotel.

I don't see the problem of such a thing being in the desk drawer.

I can't say what that book means to you, but it is pretty hateful to me. It would be one thing for me to be upset about going to a church and finding bibles, because the balance of equities is pretty hard against me. I came to the church knowing it was a church and would insist on something counter to the nature of the church's endeavor.

Not so with a hotel room. They can make a reasonable accommodation without harming their own endeavor or even the nonprofit's endeavor. People who are interested in a bible can request one, and people without an interest can avoid it. And then nobody feels any unwelcome pressure or association.

Its just such an easy alternative.

[Kernen]

Leave it in the lobby. If I want to know about the local museums, I'll seek it out. People generally already have plans when they arrive at the hotel.

You dont travel much do you.?

I travel one week out of four.

Who would make you read a copy of Mein Kampf left in a hotel room? Placing it in the hotel room is an invitation to read it that I have no interest in being exposed to in a commercial transaction.

strawman.jpeg

No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

[North German Realm]

It's quaint and cheap. More hotels should adopt this tradition. Other scriptures have no such traditions, so I see no reason to supply hotel rooms with wasteful religious libraries.

Maybe not in the US, but I know for a fact you'll find at least two Qurans (and a few Tafsir books) in most rooms in Istanbul hotels. Religious majorities have a tendency to shove their religion into other people's throats.

[The New California Republic]

I don't see the problem of such a thing being in the desk drawer.

I can't say what that book means to you, but it is pretty hateful to me. It would be one thing for me to be upset about going to a church and finding bibles, because the balance of equities is pretty hard against me. I came to the church knowing it was a church and would insist on something counter to the nature of the church's endeavor.

Not so with a hotel room. They can make a reasonable accommodation without harming their own endeavor or even the nonprofit's endeavor. People who are interested in a bible can request one, and people without an interest can avoid it. And then nobody feels any unwelcome pressure or association.

Its just such an easy alternative.

I wasn't talking about the Bible.

[San Lumen]

It's quaint and cheap. More hotels should adopt this tradition. Other scriptures have no such traditions, so I see no reason to supply hotel rooms with wasteful religious libraries.

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

[North German Realm]

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

That's not how it works in the public sphere though.

[The South Falls]

The hotel can take or refuse the bibles. It is up to them, and not to us.

[Minachia]

Also, can I point out that hotel bibles are usually just the New Testament, so the argument about the OT is a little bit invalid?

[Kernen]

I can't say what that book means to you, but it is pretty hateful to me. It would be one thing for me to be upset about going to a church and finding bibles, because the balance of equities is pretty hard against me. I came to the church knowing it was a church and would insist on something counter to the nature of the church's endeavor.

Not so with a hotel room. They can make a reasonable accommodation without harming their own endeavor or even the nonprofit's endeavor. People who are interested in a bible can request one, and people without an interest can avoid it. And then nobody feels any unwelcome pressure or association.

Its just such an easy alternative.

I wasn't talking about the Bible.

It isn't, but its also hardly a problem to offer them at the desk.

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

Because it represents a great deal of hate against me and mine. I'd have the same problem with, say, a swastika painted on the inside of the drawer.

You can argue that I just not read it, but perceiving the contents contemporaneously is not the sole issue. Its as much a symbol as a book. And, as I am careful to note, just because you have a right under the First Amendment to engage in that kind of symbolism and expressive conduct doesn't necessarily mean you should do so.

Worse, a hotel room is not a public place for the purpose of free speech, and its not the kind of area that one expects to face that kind of free speech action. Its, honestly, a quiet place that I intend to occupy temporarily. That's all it should be.

[Ifreann]

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

How does it make you feel unwelcome simply by being in a drawer? Don’t read it. Simple as that.

Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

[The Alma Mater]

It's quaint and cheap. More hotels should adopt this tradition. Other scriptures have no such traditions, so I see no reason to supply hotel rooms with wasteful religious libraries.

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

Of course they did not avoid it - making you feel uncomfortable is the whole point. It is a deliberate reminder that christianity is everywhere and that there is no place you are safe.

[Hediacrana]

strawman.jpeg

No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

But the analogy hardly seems fair. Surely you're aware that millions of people value the Bible without understanding it to mandate hate towards anyone. The same can hardly be said for Mein Kampf - even if you'd manage to somehow find a Nazi who genuinely is in favour of love, inclusion and acceptance of those with different views and identities than their own, that still would be far more uncommon than finding a Christian matching that description.

[North German Realm]

It's quaint and cheap. More hotels should adopt this tradition. Other scriptures have no such traditions, so I see no reason to supply hotel rooms with wasteful religious libraries.

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

Except they do it for the explicit intention of making us (the non-Christians) unwelcome. It's one of the many little ways majority groups establish and make a point of their dominance with.

[Ethel mermania]

You dont travel much do you.?

I travel one week out of four.

strawman.jpeg

No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

I dont believe you. If you did stay in hotel on monthly basis you would know those little booklets provide a list of hotel services, fire escape exits, local food choices, medical services etc, aside from local points of service.

[Kernen]

No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

But the analogy hardly seems fair. Surely you're aware that millions of people value the Bible without understanding it to mandate hate towards anyone. The same can hardly be said for Mein Kampf - even if you'd manage to somehow find a Nazi who genuinely is in favour of love, inclusion and acceptance of those with different views and identities than their own, that still would be far more uncommon than finding a Christian matching that description.

Irrelevant. The analogy was designed to test the acceptability of exposing individuals to hostile ideology. Mein Kampf is a ready analogy because it is readily recognized as hostile. That Mein Kampf is arguably less unpleasant (though not to my mind) than your holy book doesn't change the core assumption: Presence of unpleasant media is itself unpleasant, and inclusion in a hotel room without it being requested is hostile, even if unintentional.

[Kernen]

I travel one week out of four.



No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

I dont believe you. If you did stay in hotel on monthly basis you would know those little booklets provide a list of hotel services, fire escape exits, local food choices, medical services etc, aside from local points of service.

None of which I need. If I wanted it, I'd ask.

You don't have to believe me. I'm really not interested in providing you the receipts of my travels, both because I'm lazy and because I don't want to share personal info.

[The Alma Mater]

No, analogy. Exposure to unpleasant literature nobody is forcing you to read is unpleasant, regardless of the lack of overt force.

But the analogy hardly seems fair. Surely you're aware that millions of people value the Bible without understanding it to mandate hate towards anyone.

And yet it does. And has done for almost 2000 years. On a far greater scale than the book by the man with the silly moustache.

[Kowani]

As an atheist, I have to say it makes me feel unwelcome. Not that I am unwelcome because of my religion, but the assumption that I will appreciate a bible reminds me of other presumptions that make people unwelcome. Like the presumption of heteronormativity, or calling an unmarried woman Mrs. based on her age.

Its a little thing that suggests that people aren't considering those of different strokes. Which is not itself a problem, except that its just so easy to avoid it and they still didn't.

Except they do it for the explicit intention of making us (the non-Christians) unwelcome. It's one of the many little ways majority groups establish and make a point of their dominance with.

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

[Kernen]

Except they do it for the explicit intention of making us (the non-Christians) unwelcome. It's one of the many little ways majority groups establish and make a point of their dominance with.

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

That's one of the reasons I admit that its likely unintentional. Which is another reason that I'm arguing that its better to have them at the front desk and not the rooms rather than advocating that we burn all the bibles.

[Ethel mermania]

I dont believe you. If you did stay in hotel on monthly basis you would know those little booklets provide a list of hotel services, fire escape exits, local food choices, medical services etc, aside from local points of service.

None of which I need. If I wanted it, I'd ask.

You don't have to believe me. I'm really not interested in providing you the receipts of my travels, both because I'm lazy and because I don't want to share personal info.

Yes, When the fire alarm goes off the first thing you are going to do is call the front desk and ask where to go.

I am going to drop this threadJack, because ultimately it's pointless. Your making main kampf a moral equivalent of the bible is enough of a reason to discount your opinion on the topic

[Hediacrana]

But the analogy hardly seems fair. Surely you're aware that millions of people value the Bible without understanding it to mandate hate towards anyone. The same can hardly be said for Mein Kampf - even if you'd manage to somehow find a Nazi who genuinely is in favour of love, inclusion and acceptance of those with different views and identities than their own, that still would be far more uncommon than finding a Christian matching that description.

Irrelevant. The analogy was designed to test the acceptability of exposing individuals to hostile ideology. Mein Kampf is a ready analogy because it is readily recognized as hostile. That Mein Kampf is arguably less unpleasant (though not to my mind) than your holy book doesn't change the core assumption: Presence of unpleasant media is itself unpleasant, and inclusion in a hotel room without it being requested is hostile, even if unintentional.

The point is that in a world inhabited by millions of people who don't hold the book to be promoting hate towards you in any way, but who are likely to take comfort from it, and where hotels seek to provide their customers with services their customers require, the assumption that it the book is there to promote hate towards you, rather than to help those who may need it for their own purposes, is a rather egocentric one.

[Hediacrana]

I am going to drop this threadJack, because ultimately it's pointless. Your making main kampf a moral equivalent of the bible is enough of a reason to discount your opinion on the topic

^ This point exactly.

[The South Falls]

Having a bible in a drawer is like providing kosher food. It's not denying your right to be atheist, it's merely there for those who would like to read it.

[North German Realm]

Except they do it for the explicit intention of making us (the non-Christians) unwelcome. It's one of the many little ways majority groups establish and make a point of their dominance with.

I’m not entirely sure that’s their end goal…perhaps the result in some cases, but nobody’s sitting around, twirling their mustache plotting how to reinforce social dynamics and marginalize others.

It doesn't have to be intentional. The assertion that the majority is 'normal' or 'the default' in and of itself is a way to establish and make a point of dominance. It's not always intentional (though in this particular matter it is very intentional, to the point of a bunch of Christians sitting in a darkened room, twirling mustaches and cackling like Saturday Morning Cartoon Show villains), but is it really better?