Border Patrol Is Detaining Migrants in ‘a Human Dog Pound’

[Chan Island]

Because a right-winger is in office. No other reason for the outrage.

Or possibly because most people didn’t know about them.

In which case we again should be blaming the media for not reporting on it under Obama. I know I sure as hell would have been outraged at him if I had known at the time.

[Kowani]

Or possibly because most people didn’t know about them.

In which case we again should be blaming the media for not reporting on it under Obama. I know I sure as hell would have been outraged at him if I had known at the time.

Yes, we should, but that’s a very different thing than what they were talking about. Also, many gen X’ers are political now, but kinda weren’t in Obama’s time, so that’s not really something they’d have been aware of anyway.

[Vassenor]

Or possibly because most people didn’t know about them.

In which case we again should be blaming the media for not reporting on it under Obama. I know I sure as hell would have been outraged at him if I had known at the time.

So do we have evidence that this level of inhumane treatment was going on at the time?

[Maineiacs]

In which case we again should be blaming the media for not reporting on it under Obama. I know I sure as hell would have been outraged at him if I had known at the time.

So do we have evidence that this level of inhumane treatment was going on at the time?

1) I doubt it was anything approaching what Trump has done

2) We should be outraged that anything of the sort went on. I certainly would have been if I'd known.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Wait. Weren't these detention centers around during the early parts of the Obama administration?,

These detention centers where also still around when the Republicans could have given more money to BP to get them climate controlled detention centers via congress.

[Novus America]

Wait. Weren't these detention centers around during the early parts of the Obama administration?,

These detention centers where also still around when the Republicans could have given more money to BP to get them climate controlled detention centers via congress.

In other words both parties suck, and are worthless.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

These detention centers where also still around when the Republicans could have given more money to BP to get them climate controlled detention centers via congress.

In other words both parties suck, and are worthless.

Yes.
Both parties in the US need serious reforming.

[Des-Bal]

In which case we again should be blaming the media for not reporting on it under Obama. I know I sure as hell would have been outraged at him if I had known at the time.

There was less of a problem under Obama, the number of apprehensions was way, way down from the early 2000s this is the result of an enormous migrant surge. Are you sure you wouldn't have been outraged if you heard "Obama administration building dozens of new prisons for refugees?" Bush would have gotten shit if the headline was "Bush administration spends millions on air conditioning for illegal immigrant detainees."

[SD_Film Artists]

It's almost like you shouldn't enter a country illegally or something.

It's not their fault, they were going to settle in Mexico after fleeing from a neighbouring country but they tripped and fell and accidently landed at the US boarder.

[The Snazzylands]

It's almost like you shouldn't enter a country illegally or something.

Wow what a concept, right? It's like most people in this thread aren't even aware this is an option.

What are you talking about? Even if absolutely none of them were actively violent, I would still consider them hostile to the country for the reasons I gave.

So yes, "I'm not racist, but...".

Maybe you should explain why you disagree with me rather than just saying "ur a racist lol"

What are you talking about? Even if absolutely none of them were actively violent, I would still consider them hostile to the country for the reasons I gave.

What reason s matter beyond them being actively violent

Again, illegal immigrants take away the right of American citizens to decide who is a part of America. Condoning their behavior undermines the very idea of national self-determination and is a slap in the face of everyone who immigrated here legally.

[Vassenor]

It's almost like you shouldn't enter a country illegally or something.

Wow what a concept, right? It's like most people in this thread aren't even aware this is an option.

So yes, "I'm not racist, but...".

Maybe you should explain why you disagree with me rather than just saying "ur a racist lol"

What reason s matter beyond them being actively violent

Again, illegal immigrants take away the right of American citizens to decide who is a part of America. Condoning their behavior undermines the very idea of national self-determination and is a slap in the face of everyone who immigrated here legally.

You're literally saying you don't want them in the country purely because they aren't like you. That is pretty fucking racist.

[The Snazzylands]

Wow what a concept, right? It's like most people in this thread aren't even aware this is an option.


Maybe you should explain why you disagree with me rather than just saying "ur a racist lol"


Again, illegal immigrants take away the right of American citizens to decide who is a part of America. Condoning their behavior undermines the very idea of national self-determination and is a slap in the face of everyone who immigrated here legally.

You're literally saying you don't want them in the country purely because they aren't like you. That is pretty fucking racist.

Then by extension I guess it's racist to have separate countries even exist in the first place.

[Galloism]

You're literally saying you don't want them in the country purely because they aren't like you. That is pretty fucking racist.

Then by extension I guess it's racist to have separate countries even exist in the first place.

Agreed.

Dear World,

We’ve decided it’s racist for all of you to have your own countries. Pursuant to this, please be prepared to join the United States or be conquered. In an attempt to be orderly, we will be conquering you in reverse alphabetical order. This will take place using the English name for your country, and word prefixes like “new” or “United” will be disregarded for this purpose.

We will issue you a number. Please be patient, and we will attempt to conquer you as quickly as our representatives can do so.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

President Trump
United States of America

[Vassenor]

You're literally saying you don't want them in the country purely because they aren't like you. That is pretty fucking racist.

Then by extension I guess it's racist to have separate countries even exist in the first place.

Today in "shit nobody said"...

[The Snazzylands]

Then by extension I guess it's racist to have separate countries even exist in the first place.

Today in "shit nobody said"...

Okay, so you are fine with separate countries existing. Except when it comes to the US, everyone in the world has the right to come over and live here if they feel like it, without any consideration whatsoever given to the consent or wellbeing of American citizens?
What's your actual point here?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Again, illegal immigrants take away the right of American citizens to decide who is a part of America.

We never had that right in the 1st place. And thank Allah SWT it isn't so.

Condoning their behavior undermines the very idea of national self-determination and is a slap in the face of everyone who immigrated here legally.

How? Also in order to counteract that, we should make immigration easier.

[Vassenor]

Today in "shit nobody said"...

Okay, so you are fine with separate countries existing. Except when it comes to the US, everyone in the world has the right to come over and live here if they feel like it, without any consideration whatsoever given to the consent or wellbeing of American citizens?
What's your actual point here?

So how are these people a threat to your wellbeing?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Okay, so you are fine with separate countries existing. Except when it comes to the US, everyone in the world has the right to come over and live here if they feel like it, without any consideration whatsoever given to the consent or wellbeing of American citizens?

Correct, excluding the "Except when it comes to the US" part and including "as long as they obey the law".

[The Snazzylands]

Again, illegal immigrants take away the right of American citizens to decide who is a part of America.

We never had that right in the 1st place. And thank Allah SWT it isn't so.

Condoning their behavior undermines the very idea of national self-determination and is a slap in the face of everyone who immigrated here legally.

How? Also in order to counteract that, we should make immigration easier.

Our immigration laws come from the government, and the government is supposed to represent the people. Yes, we do have that right. Why is that in any way a bad thing? It should be the case everywhere.

Our current immigration system isn't perfect, but it's hell of a lot better than just giving up and giving amnesty to 11+ million illegals, or opening the borders even wider. It's harmful because foreigners forcefully inserting themselves into a country without the consent of the people of that country violates that peoples' right to sovereignty. Only Americans have the right to decide whether or not someone lives in America, and the same should be true for every country.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

We never had that right in the 1st place. And thank Allah SWT it isn't so.

How? Also in order to counteract that, we should make immigration easier.

Our immigration laws come from the government, and the government is supposed to represent the people. Yes, we do have that right. Why is that in any way a bad thing? It should be the case everywhere.

Our current immigration system isn't perfect, but it's h*ll of a lot better than just giving up and giving amnesty to 11+ million illegals, or opening the borders even wider. It's harmful because foreigners forcefully inserting themselves into a country without the consent of the people of that country violates that peoples' right to sovereignty. Only Americans have the right to decide whether or not someone lives in America, and the same should be true for every country.

Actually the people who file immigrants' applications to citizenship determine who becomes a citizen. You and I take no part in that. Also, giving amnesty to 11+ million illegal immigrants makes them not illegal anymore. I'd love that.

[Vassenor]

We never had that right in the 1st place. And thank Allah SWT it isn't so.

How? Also in order to counteract that, we should make immigration easier.

Our immigration laws come from the government, and the government is supposed to represent the people. Yes, we do have that right. Why is that in any way a bad thing? It should be the case everywhere.

Our current immigration system isn't perfect, but it's hell of a lot better than just giving up and giving amnesty to 11+ million illegals, or opening the borders even wider. It's harmful because foreigners forcefully inserting themselves into a country without the consent of the people of that country violates that peoples' right to sovereignty. Only Americans have the right to decide whether or not someone lives in America, and the same should be true for every country.

If the government is meant to represent the people, why is Trump president when the people voted for Clinton?

[The Snazzylands]

Okay, so you are fine with separate countries existing. Except when it comes to the US, everyone in the world has the right to come over and live here if they feel like it, without any consideration whatsoever given to the consent or wellbeing of American citizens?
What's your actual point here?

So how are these people a threat to your wellbeing?

Even if you could somehow demonstrate that every illegal immigrant did more good than harm, my case would still stand. It doesn't matter.
I know it's tempting to respond right away, but please try to engage with my main point. Otherwise it gives the impression that the people who support or don't care about illegal immigration don't have any real rebuttals to my argument.

Then by extension I guess it's racist to have separate countries even exist in the first place.

Agreed.

Dear World,

We’ve decided it’s racist for all of you to have your own countries. Pursuant to this, please be prepared to join the United States or be conquered. In an attempt to be orderly, we will be conquering you in reverse alphabetical order. This will take place using the English name for your country, and word prefixes like “new” or “United” will be disregarded for this purpose.

We will issue you a number. Please be patient, and we will attempt to conquer you as quickly as our representatives can do so.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

President Trump
United States of America

After centuries of war, a brave soldier will plant an American flag in the carpet-bombed remains of what was the last foreign country, look off into the distance while basking in the light of the afternoon sun and whisper, "Rest in peace, racism."

[Vassenor]

So how are these people a threat to your wellbeing?

Even if you could somehow demonstrate that every illegal immigrant did more good than harm, my case would still stand. It doesn't matter.
I know it's tempting to respond right away, but please try to engage with my main point. Otherwise it gives the impression that the people who support or don't care about illegal immigration don't have any real rebuttals to my argument.

So you're admitting that there's no actual harm but you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and scream about it when pressed.

[The Snazzylands]

Our immigration laws come from the government, and the government is supposed to represent the people. Yes, we do have that right. Why is that in any way a bad thing? It should be the case everywhere.

Our current immigration system isn't perfect, but it's h*ll of a lot better than just giving up and giving amnesty to 11+ million illegals, or opening the borders even wider. It's harmful because foreigners forcefully inserting themselves into a country without the consent of the people of that country violates that peoples' right to sovereignty. Only Americans have the right to decide whether or not someone lives in America, and the same should be true for every country.

Actually the people who file immigrants' applications to citizenship determine who becomes a citizen. You and I take no part in that. Also, giving amnesty to 11+ million illegal immigrants make yhem noy illegal anymore. I'd love that.

Yes but it's the voters who are supposed to decide how many immigrants are let in and what the criteria should be.
And no, no one should be here without being properly vetted.

Our immigration laws come from the government, and the government is supposed to represent the people. Yes, we do have that right. Why is that in any way a bad thing? It should be the case everywhere.

Our current immigration system isn't perfect, but it's hell of a lot better than just giving up and giving amnesty to 11+ million illegals, or opening the borders even wider. It's harmful because foreigners forcefully inserting themselves into a country without the consent of the people of that country violates that peoples' right to sovereignty. Only Americans have the right to decide whether or not someone lives in America, and the same should be true for every country.

If the government is meant to represent the people, why is Trump president when the people voted for Clinton?

Probably has something to do with the electoral college being a shit system. I'm not a conservative, obviously a lot of things need to change. I just don't think the right solution to illegal immigration is just letting it happen and telling myself it's not a problem.

Even if you could somehow demonstrate that every illegal immigrant did more good than harm, my case would still stand. It doesn't matter.
I know it's tempting to respond right away, but please try to engage with my main point. Otherwise it gives the impression that the people who support or don't care about illegal immigration don't have any real rebuttals to my argument.

So you're admitting that there's no actual harm but you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and scream about it when pressed.

Again, you refused to actually address my argument. I can't tell whether you're a clever troll or just dishonest, but I'm taking the bait regardless.
Most illegal immigrants heavily rely on the support of taxpayers. Clinics, public schools, sometimes welfare, etc. They work jobs that typically pay far below minimum wage, which drives down wages and makes American workers less likely to successfully push for pay raises. Though economists often argue that's overall beneficial to the economy, a significant portion of their money is sent back to their home country rather than spent here.
Not to mention that these people aren't vetted at all, they can't be if they're here illegally. As such we don't know if they have criminal background, have mental or physical health issues, or are qualified for anything other than low-skilled labor.

But again, these things are irrelevant to my main point. I like the fact that distinct nations exist, believe they have a right to exist and in national self-determination, and by extension believe that the people of a country should decide important issues that affects the whole country, like who gets to live there and who gets to become a citizen. US citizens should decide who lives in the US, no one else. Certainly not anyone who waltzes over here and hops the border.

I'm looking forward to your next punchy one-liner.

[Vassenor]

Actually the people who file immigrants' applications to citizenship determine who becomes a citizen. You and I take no part in that. Also, giving amnesty to 11+ million illegal immigrants make yhem noy illegal anymore. I'd love that.

Yes but it's the voters who are supposed to decide how many immigrants are let in and what the criteria should be.
And no, no one should be here without being properly vetted.

If the government is meant to represent the people, why is Trump president when the people voted for Clinton?

Probably has something to do with the electoral college being a shit system. I'm not a conservative, obviously a lot of things need to change. I just don't think the right solution to illegal immigration is just letting it happen and telling myself it's not a problem.

So you're admitting that there's no actual harm but you're just going to stick your fingers in your ears and scream about it when pressed.

Again, you refused to actually address my argument. I can't tell whether you're a clever troll or just dishonest, but I'm taking the bait regardless.
Most illegal immigrants heavily rely on the support of taxpayers. Clinics, public schools, sometimes welfare, etc. They work jobs that typically pay far below minimum wage, which drives down wages and makes American workers less likely to successfully push for pay raises. Though economists often argue that's overall beneficial to the economy, a significant portion of their money is sent back to their home country rather than spent here.
Not to mention that these people aren't vetted at all, they can't be if they're here illegally. As such we don't know if they have criminal background, have mental or physical health issues, or are qualified for anything other than low-skilled labor.

But again, these things are irrelevant to my main point. I like the fact that distinct nations exist, believe they have a right to exist and in national self-determination, and by extension believe that the people of a country should decide important issues that affects the whole country, like who gets to live there and who gets to become a citizen. US citizens should decide who lives in the US, no one else. Certainly not anyone who waltzes over here and hops the border.

I'm looking forward to your next punchy one-liner.

I mean that's what happens when you tend to just spout myths verbatim with no actual supporting evidence.