NationStates

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:36 pm**

Cerinda wrote:
Liriena wrote:Just a moment. I'm gonna need my Memri TV memes and "death to America" avatars.

Also hope you're ready for the deaths of thousands of American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians, the rise of extremism and Iran to become a failed state.

you all need to hop off your weird nostalgia trip. There wont be war over this, chill out.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm**

Cerinda wrote:
Liriena wrote:Just a moment. I'm gonna need my Memri TV memes and "death to America" avatars.

Also hope you're ready for the deaths of thousands of American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians, the rise of extremism and Iran to become a failed state.

Ah, but you see, the underlined is actually good. Because if lots of American troops get wounded or killed, that means Hollywood can make a bunch of unsubtly propagandistic movies with military subsidies about how tragic the Iran war was for American invaders and how much of a bad time the soldiers had killing civilians.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm**

North German Realm wrote:
Eglaecia wrote:Yeah sorry but America has lied about their cause for war for both Iraq and Vietnam, I don't trust them to be telling the truth about Iran, no matter how much I hate Iran.

America lied about neither Iraq nor Vietnam. Iraq had chemical weapons (it used them in Kuwait, Iran, and even in the Gulf War) and was this close to getting nukes, and really, the war on Vietnam was always about how "Commies are getting into power and if they do, they might go after other countries in the area" which... well, it had Commies, they were going to win without NATO help, and they did result in fellow Communist regimes getting propped in neighboring areas, namely Cambodia -the Khmer Rouge and later the People's Republic- and Laos, the latter of which is still socialist).

For Iraq: There's zero evidence that Iraq had WMDs when they were invaded. Iraq previously had WMDs but ceased production and stockpile, in fact the CIA gave them intelligence so they could target the Iranians with them more efficiently.
For Vietnam: Gulf of Tonkin. Google is your friend.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm**

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You don't kill your customers. That's just bad business.

Nonsense. Then you can keep their money and get your stuff back. It's a win-win!

Since the American approach to dakka is P for Plenty, I doubt it'd be in very good condition....

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:38 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
Cerinda wrote:Also hope you're ready for the deaths of thousands of American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians, the rise of extremism and Iran to become a failed state.

you all need to hop off your weird nostalgia trip. There wont be war over this, chill out.

I hope not, but again you never know what might happen.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:38 pm**

This is what Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted all along. Trump has been governing as George Bush III.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:39 pm**

Calling it now, this is a false flag.

Yeah, I'm feeling like a conspiracy theorist by my goodness, it's amazing how the Iranians are suddenly attacking US oil tankers after months of the US government openly saying they want to invade.

Well, soon it'll be time to wave goodbye to the one, overwhelmingly positive thing that Trump had going for him.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:40 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Can we not Tonkin Gulf our way into another middle eastern quagmire?

how is this Tonkin gulf? we are not responding militarily, and the attack was not even on a US ship

Some ships get attacked somewhere, the US starts itching to go to war over it. Tonkin Gulf boiled down to the bare essentials.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:40 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:This is what Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted all along. Trump has been governing as George Bush III.

With none of the Bushiness and all of the Donald Trump.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:40 pm**

Cerinda wrote:
Sundowers wrote:
you all need to hop off your weird nostalgia trip. There wont be war over this, chill out.

I hope not, but again you never know what might happen.

here is the deal, if you look back at what happened last time this type thing occurred. Tankers being hit illicit ed barely any reaction out of us except some escort missions. Then Iran mined the strait and hit a US Destroyer. We then launched Operation praying Mantis and knocked out Irans navy and there aggression plummeted.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:42 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
Cerinda wrote:Also hope you're ready for the deaths of thousands of American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians, the rise of extremism and Iran to become a failed state.

you all need to hop off your weird nostalgia trip. There wont be war over this, chill out.

Hopefully not, however, the Trump administration is hardly made up of rational actors so who knows.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:42 pm**

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Sundowers wrote:how is this Tonkin gulf? we are not responding militarily, and the attack was not even on a US ship

Some ships get attacked somewhere, the US starts itching to go to war over it. Tonkin Gulf boiled down to the bare essentials.

not at all, Gulf Of Tonkin was an assault on a US Navy ship.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:43 pm**

Bear Stearns wrote:
Duhon wrote:USS Maine, two centuries later.

Unlike Iran, the Spaniards deserved it.

Oh, both were bad actos in their own ways, but they're not stupid.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:47 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Some ships get attacked somewhere, the US starts itching to go to war over it. Tonkin Gulf boiled down to the bare essentials.

not at all, Gulf Of Tonkin was an assault on a US Navy ship.

Both McNamara and Giap have admitted that absolutely nothing happened on the 4th of August. The assault was completely fabricated.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:49 pm**

Chan Island wrote:
Sundowers wrote:not at all, Gulf Of Tonkin was an assault on a US Navy ship.

Both McNamara and Giap have admitted that absolutely nothing happened on the 4th of August. The assault was completely fabricated.

actually the maddox did engage NV attack boats

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:49 pm**

The US doesn't need to blame Iran, Iran is a belligerent, aggressive and imperialist state, it is the greatest enemy of the Arab people and Islam in the history of mankind, I wish America well in its war on Iranian aggression should it occur, and I ask Allah to give a speedy victory to the Arabs against the Safavids of our era.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:50 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Some ships get attacked somewhere, the US starts itching to go to war over it. Tonkin Gulf boiled down to the bare essentials.

not at all, Gulf Of Tonkin was an assault on a US Navy ship.

It’s the principle of the thing, some ships get attacked and people in the US government want to launch an attack on whoever they think did it. Gulf of Tonkin in a nutshell.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:51 pm**

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Sundowers wrote:not at all, Gulf Of Tonkin was an assault on a US Navy ship.

It’s the principle of the thing, some ships get attacked and people in the US government want to launch an attack on whoever they think did it. Gulf of Tonkin in a nutshell.

Yeah but with Tonkin you could bend it in a way to legitimate war, there is 0 way for this to act as a legitimate Casus Belli

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:52 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
Both McNamara and Giap have admitted that absolutely nothing happened on the 4th of August. The assault was completely fabricated.

actually the maddox did engage NV attack boats

Yes, on the second of august, where the Maddox fired some warning shots and the NVs retaliated with torpedoes. The 3 torpedo boats were damaged, 4 NV sailors killed and the Maddox was hit by one bullet.

The first incident.

But it was the supposed second incident that was actually cited as the cassus belli. On the 4th of August. That didn't happen. That was completely made up.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:54 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
Lanorth wrote:I am not that surprised the United States blamed Iran.

and?

Iran announced that it would do this, it has done this, and both ships were 100% ATTACKED. Aside from Houthis, Iran is the number 1 suspect and for a good reason

That is why I am not surprised.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:54 pm**

Chan Island wrote:
Sundowers wrote:
actually the maddox did engage NV attack boats

Yes, on the second of august, where the Maddox fired some warning shots and the NVs retaliated with torpedoes. The 3 torpedo boats were damaged, 4 NV sailors killed and the Maddox was hit by one bullet.

yes, this is considered an engagement and therefore could be presented in such a way to justify war. What was originally claimed was not factually yes, but something happened therefore you cant say the whole incident was fabricated.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:54 pm**

Lanorth wrote:
Sundowers wrote:and?

Iran announced that it would do this, it has done this, and both ships were 100% ATTACKED. Aside from Houthis, Iran is the number 1 suspect and for a good reason

That is why I am not surprised.

ah I misread your tone, my bad.

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:55 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:56 pm**

Donald Trump Angered by Iranian Posturing

'Those naïve citizens of Iran who imagine the Iranians as a people of peace are entirely out of touch with reality. Those who live at our border do not have the luxury of such delusions, seeing their troops closing in on us just across it. This is a threat we cannot leave unanswered. With every passing day, Iran is preparing for war. It would be madness for us not to do the same.'

Posted: **Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm**

Sundowers wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
Yes, on the second of august, where the Maddox fired some warning shots and the NVs retaliated with torpedoes. The 3 torpedo boats were damaged, 4 NV sailors killed and the Maddox was hit by one bullet.

yes, this is considered an engagement and therefore could be presented in such a way to justify war. What was originally claimed was not factually yes, but something happened therefore you cant say the whole incident was fabricated.

Not quite like that.

I can say that there was an engagement on the 2nd of August, 1964, where there was a minor engagement between the Maddox and 3 NV torpedo boats. In that engagement, the Maddox fired first (though they were intended as warning shots) and this was not reported to president, and 4 NV sailors were killed.

I can also say that the incident used to justify the resolution for war, on the 4th of August, was completely made up. I can confidently say that whole incident was fabricated and then the lie was used to push for war.

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Iran vs the US Thread