NationStates

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:OOF

Nice knowing ya, Khamenei.

As an Iranian, I've gotta say it really wasn't.

North German Realm wrote:

Eglaecia wrote:Yeah sorry but America has lied about their cause for war for both Iraq and Vietnam, I don't trust them to be telling the truth about Iran, no matter how much I hate Iran.

America lied about neither Iraq nor Vietnam. Iraq had chemical weapons (it used them in Kuwait, Iran, and even in the Gulf War) and was this close to getting nukes, and really, the war on Vietnam was always about how "Commies are getting into power and if they do, they might go after other countries in the area" which... well, it had Commies, they were going to win without NATO help, and they did result in fellow Communist regimes getting propped in neighboring areas, namely Cambodia -the Khmer Rouge and later the People's Republic- and Laos, the latter of which is still socialist).

Vietnam is still Socialist, as well.

North German Realm wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:OOF

Nice knowing ya, Khamenei.

As an Iranian, I've gotta say it really wasn't.

It's called sarcasm, friend.

Duhon wrote:USS Maine, two centuries later.

someone did not watch the pompeo statement.

Also if you look at the pictures this does not look like a mine or even a torpedo, there is a very good chance an Anti-ship missile from and IRGC patrol boat did this. Not to mention the IRGC has gone rouge in the past.

Duhon wrote:USS Maine, two centuries later.

Pretty sure these ships didn't explode by accident.

North German Realm wrote:

Eglaecia wrote:Yeah sorry but America has lied about their cause for war for both Iraq and Vietnam, I don't trust them to be telling the truth about Iran, no matter how much I hate Iran.

America lied about neither Iraq nor Vietnam. Iraq had chemical weapons (it used them in Kuwait, Iran, and even in the Gulf War) and was this close to getting nukes, and really, the war on Vietnam was always about how "Commies are getting into power and if they do, they might go after other countries in the area" which... well, it had Commies, they were going to win without NATO help, and they did result in fellow Communist regimes getting propped in neighboring areas, namely Cambodia -the Khmer Rouge and later the People's Republic- and Laos, the latter of which is still socialist).

That would be 1) Iraq had no useful WMD arsenal at the time of the second Gulf War, and 2)a consequence of the US expanding its war into thosr aforementioned countries, thus giving Communists there a chance to exploit the resulting vacuum, respectively.

Sundowers wrote:

Duhon wrote:USS Maine, two centuries later.

someone did not watch the pompeo statement.

Also if you look at the pictures this does not look like a mine or even a torpedo, there is a very good chance an Anti-ship missile from and IRGC patrol boat did this. Not to mention the IRGC has gone rouge in the past.

Iran has a history of naval terrorism in the recent year. The bombings back when there was talks of closing down the Hormuz reek of the same IRGC stench.

On a different note, Shinzo Abe, Japanese PM, met Khamenei today (and was told by the latter that Iran would "not negotiate under any circumstances", resulting in a fucking waste of time for both of 'em). The fact that a Japanese ship was also struck in the terrorist act hints that Iran is trying to play the overused and boring "Why would we gas our own civilians" card (which, of course, it has a history of. Remember Ahvaz a few months back?), which is in line with Zarif's own tweet.

Duhon wrote:

North German Realm wrote:America lied about neither Iraq nor Vietnam. Iraq had chemical weapons (it used them in Kuwait, Iran, and even in the Gulf War) and was this close to getting nukes, and really, the war on Vietnam was always about how "Commies are getting into power and if they do, they might go after other countries in the area" which... well, it had Commies, they were going to win without NATO help, and they did result in fellow Communist regimes getting propped in neighboring areas, namely Cambodia -the Khmer Rouge and later the People's Republic- and Laos, the latter of which is still socialist).

That would be 1) Iraq had no useful WMD arsenal at the time of the second Gulf War, and 2)a consequence of the US expanding its war into thosr aforementioned countries, thus giving Communists there a chance to exploit the resulting vacuum, respectively.

lmao

No, Communists were already present in Indochina before the U.S. showed up. It also doesn't matter if they work or not; WMDs are WMDs. They can get them to work again eventually.

Oh, man, all the Gulf of Tonkin comments and jokes have already been made.

Anyway... yeah, no, "Iran literally inciting a war in its own backyard unprovoked" is gonna be a hard sell coming from a government that has been beating the war drums for several years already.

Duhon wrote:

North German Realm wrote:America lied about neither Iraq nor Vietnam. Iraq had chemical weapons (it used them in Kuwait, Iran, and even in the Gulf War) and was this close to getting nukes, and really, the war on Vietnam was always about how "Commies are getting into power and if they do, they might go after other countries in the area" which... well, it had Commies, they were going to win without NATO help, and they did result in fellow Communist regimes getting propped in neighboring areas, namely Cambodia -the Khmer Rouge and later the People's Republic- and Laos, the latter of which is still socialist).

That would be 1) Iraq had no useful WMD arsenal at the time of the second Gulf War, and 2)a consequence of the US expanding its war into thosr aforementioned countries, thus giving Communists there a chance to exploit the resulting vacuum, respectively.

Both these statements are false. Iraq literally had used chemical weaponry on Kuwait a few months earlier, and The Commies getting in power simply happened because The US pulled out of Vietnam. Obviously, Vietnam was a special case as it wasn't even started by The US (but rather, like most post-colonial problems of the modern world, the French) in the first place, but to say "they lied about Vietnam and Iraq" is simply untrue.

I hope yall are ready for Iraq 2.0

North German Realm wrote:

Duhon wrote:
That would be 1) Iraq had no useful WMD arsenal at the time of the second Gulf War, and 2)a consequence of the US expanding its war into thosr aforementioned countries, thus giving Communists there a chance to exploit the resulting vacuum, respectively.

Both these statements are false. Iraq literally had used chemical weaponry on Kuwait a few months earlier, and The Commies getting in power simply happened because The US pulled out of Vietnam. Obviously, Vietnam was a special case as it wasn't even started by The US (but rather, like most post-colonial problems of the modern world, the French) in the first place, but to say "they lied about Vietnam and Iraq" is simply untrue.

Also, Iraq used VX gas multiple times during the Iran-Iraq war

I am not that surprised the United States blamed Iran.

North German Realm wrote:

Sundowers wrote:
someone did not watch the pompeo statement.

Also if you look at the pictures this does not look like a mine or even a torpedo, there is a very good chance an Anti-ship missile from and IRGC patrol boat did this. Not to mention the IRGC has gone rouge in the past.

Iran has a history of naval terrorism in the recent year. The bombings back when there was talks of closing down the Hormuz reek of the same IRGC stench.

On a different note, Shinzo Abe, Japanese PM, met Khamenei today (and was told by the latter that Iran would "not negotiate under any circumstances", resulting in a fucking waste of time for both of 'em). The fact that a Japanese ship was also struck in the terrorist act hints that Iran is trying to play the overused and boring "Why would we gas our own civilians" card (which, of course, it has a history of. Remember Ahvaz a few months back?), which is in line with Zarif's own tweet.

The U.S. definitely wouldn't attack Japanese ships as Japan is an improtant ally in East Asia, an area of the world dangerously close to Beijing's Sphere of Influence. Hence the need to keep SK and Japan on our side.

Cerinda wrote:I hope yall are ready for Iraq 2.0

Just a moment. I'm gonna need my Memri TV memes and "death to America" avatars.

Can we not Tonkin Gulf our way into another middle eastern quagmire?

Sundowers wrote:

North German Realm wrote:Both these statements are false. Iraq literally had used chemical weaponry on Kuwait a few months earlier, and The Commies getting in power simply happened because The US pulled out of Vietnam. Obviously, Vietnam was a special case as it wasn't even started by The US (but rather, like most post-colonial problems of the modern world, the French) in the first place, but to say "they lied about Vietnam and Iraq" is simply untrue.

Also, Iraq used VX gas multiple times during the Iran-Iraq war

And dusty Mustard.

Anyway, with that in mind, here's hoping Tehran doesn't get bombed by tomorrow morning and I can wake up to see what new developments there are regarding the tanker attacks.

Trump starting a war with Iran would cause half of his base to ditch him. This is tragic.

Lanorth wrote:I am not that surprised the United States blamed Iran.

and?

Iran announced that it would do this, it has done this, and both ships were 100% ATTACKED. Aside from Houthis, Iran is the number 1 suspect and for a good reason

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Duhon wrote:
That would be 1) Iraq had no useful WMD arsenal at the time of the second Gulf War, and 2)a consequence of the US expanding its war into thosr aforementioned countries, thus giving Communists there a chance to exploit the resulting vacuum, respectively.

lmao

No, Communists were already present in Indochina before the U.S. showed up. It also doesn't matter if they work or not; WMDs are WMDs. They can get them to work again eventually.

I don't wanna expand on this, but 1)those Communists may have been there to begin with, but the US expanding its operations to neighboring countries in an effort to root out Viet Cong presented a golden opportunity for those Communists to take power, with horrifying results, and 2) seriously with that shit?

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Can we not Tonkin Gulf our way into another middle eastern quagmire?

how is this Tonkin gulf? we are not responding militarily, and the attack was not even on a US ship

Liriena wrote:

Cerinda wrote:I hope yall are ready for Iraq 2.0

Just a moment. I'm gonna need my Memri TV memes and "death to America" avatars.

Also hope you're ready for the deaths of thousands of American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians, the rise of extremism and Iran to become a failed state.

Bear Stearns wrote:Trump starting a war with Iran would cause half of his base to ditch him. This is tragic.

... that's really the first thing that comes to mind?

Duhon wrote:USS Maine, two centuries later.

Unlike Iran, the Spaniards deserved it.

Duhon wrote:

Bear Stearns wrote:Trump starting a war with Iran would cause half of his base to ditch him. This is tragic.

... that's really the first thing that comes to mind?

I should have clarified. War with Iran would be tragic. The point is that Trump would be an idiot to do this.

Part of why he whooped the establishment Republicans in 2016 is because he was calling out neo-con wars. Most Americans are tired of dealing with the Middle East and want out.