Iran vs the US Thread

[Zhivotnoye]

Just came by to see if everybody is still handwringing about "teh ebil 'muricans" invading Iran for oil or whatever seems to be the paranoid fantasy of the day. I was not disappointed.

It's surreal. Iran is an American-hating dictatorial theocratic regime and a Russian ally. It is a nation that wants to build nuclear weapons so it can threaten the US, Europe and all Sunni countries in perpetuity. It oppressed it's people and sends women to jail for not wearing head scarves. That's what Americans root for nowadays.

But I am not surprised. The same surrealism was present when Americans were hating their very own nation for being against Assad and ISIS. America bombing ISIS extremists or trying to depose Assad for using chemical weapons on his own people is somehow bad....according to Americans.

Black/white views are easily promoted, and it looks like it got to you as well, or at least to some extend looking at your post.
Nonetheless you do have a point, sadly. It just seems nowadays that people tend to pick a side and stick with it no matter what happens. At least among the general public there's no room left for nuance and context, let alone trying to understrand the point of view from the other side. It's a shame really...

[Thuzbekistan]

It's surreal. Iran is an American-hating dictatorial theocratic regime and a Russian ally. It is a nation that wants to build nuclear weapons so it can threaten the US, Europe and all Sunni countries in perpetuity. It oppressed it's people and sends women to jail for not wearing head scarves. That's what Americans root for nowadays.

But I am not surprised. The same surrealism was present when Americans were hating their very own nation for being against Assad and ISIS. America bombing ISIS extremists or trying to depose Assad for using chemical weapons on his own people is somehow bad....according to Americans.

Black/white views are easily promoted, and it looks like it got to you as well, or at least to some extend looking at your post.
Nonetheless you do have a point, sadly. It just seems nowadays that people tend to pick a side and stick with it no matter what happens. At least among the general public there's no room left for nuance and context, let alone trying to understrand the point of view from the other side. It's a shame really...

On the flip side of this, what if we just dont want unnecessary war

[US-SSR]

Where are George Bush, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft, and Hank Paulson when you need them?

Not where they should be: in jail for war crimes.

[Trollgaard]

Well I hope we don't go to war with Iran. That would really cause a lot of deaths and economic hardship...oil prices would go through the roof.

Plus, I recall promising to enlist if we did...

[Gormwood]

Well I hope we don't go to war with Iran. That would really cause a lot of deaths and economic hardship...oil prices would go through the roof.

Plus, I recall promising to enlist if we did...

Could always develop a case of bone spurs.

[Trollgaard]

Well I hope we don't go to war with Iran. That would really cause a lot of deaths and economic hardship...oil prices would go through the roof.

Plus, I recall promising to enlist if we did...

Could always develop a case of bone spurs.

Well, I'm a tad older than the average enlistee now that I am 30. Might not be able to keep up with the young bucks! We will see how it plays out.

[Heloin]

Well I hope we don't go to war with Iran. That would really cause a lot of deaths and economic hardship...oil prices would go through the roof.

Plus, I recall promising to enlist if we did...

Could always develop a case of bone spurs.

Sarge, I'm only eighteen, I got a ruptured spleen
And I always carry a purse
I got eyes like a bat, and my feet are flat, and my asthma's getting worse
Yes, think of my career, my sweetheart dear, and my poor old invalid aunt
Besides, I ain't no fool, I'm a-goin' to school
And I'm working in a defense plant

I've got a dislocated disc and a wracked up back
I'm allergic to flowers and bugs
And when the bombshell hits, I get epileptic fits
And I'm addicted to a thousand drugs
I got the weakness woes, I can't touch my toes
I can hardly reach my knees
And if the enemy came close to me
I'd probably start to sneeze

[Zhivotnoye]

Black/white views are easily promoted, and it looks like it got to you as well, or at least to some extend looking at your post.
Nonetheless you do have a point, sadly. It just seems nowadays that people tend to pick a side and stick with it no matter what happens. At least among the general public there's no room left for nuance and context, let alone trying to understrand the point of view from the other side. It's a shame really...

On the flip side of this, what if we just dont want unnecessary war

The key word here is "unnecessary". Nobody wants an unnecessary war, yet unnecessary wars occure because some people believe they are necessary.

[Thuzbekistan]

On the flip side of this, what if we just dont want unnecessary war

The key word here is "unnecessary". Nobody wants an unnecessary war, yet unnecessary wars occure because some people believe they are necessary.

Welp, this is unnecessary

[Zhivotnoye]

The key word here is "unnecessary". Nobody wants an unnecessary war, yet unnecessary wars occure because some people believe they are necessary.

Welp, this is unnecessary

Depending on who you ask, it might be necessary.

[Thuzbekistan]

Welp, this is unnecessary

Depending on who you ask, it might be necessary.

I'm not asking them, I'm stating my opinion. You dont have to try and get me to see things from another side

[Dontriptia]

[

[Infected Mushroom]

Can someone explain to me (I’m a non American so I’m confused)...

What’s with America starting all these wars in places several continents away?

What’s there to gain? What’s the point?

How did the leaders wake up one day and say “let’s attack country X in the Middle East. It will cost billions and people will die and we can’t even create a colony anymore because colonies are not in fashion... let’s do it, it will be a good idea.”

I was expecting that after Afghanistan this “thing” would fade but it’s surprisingly persistent.

Iraq, Syria (sort of)... and now Iran too?

What is the point of this?

[-Ocelot-]

It's surreal. Iran is an American-hating dictatorial theocratic regime and a Russian ally. It is a nation that wants to build nuclear weapons so it can threaten the US, Europe and all Sunni countries in perpetuity. It oppressed it's people and sends women to jail for not wearing head scarves. That's what Americans root for nowadays.

But I am not surprised. The same surrealism was present when Americans were hating their very own nation for being against Assad and ISIS. America bombing ISIS extremists or trying to depose Assad for using chemical weapons on his own people is somehow bad....according to Americans.

Saudi Arabia is also a dictatorial theocratic regime which "oppressed it's people and sends women to jail for not wearing head scarves." It's currently killing thousands of civilians in Yemen and directly supports Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula which is by some metrics the worst terrorist threat to the American people. Not to mention their involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia is at least on Iran's level, if not worse. Yet there's not only no talk of going to war with them, but we actively send them billions of dollars in weapons some of which get handed over to Al Qaeda. The idea that a war in Iran is justified on a moral basis while Saudi Arabia continues to receive US support is absurd.

Whatabout X country

[Thuzbekistan]

Saudi Arabia is also a dictatorial theocratic regime which "oppressed it's people and sends women to jail for not wearing head scarves." It's currently killing thousands of civilians in Yemen and directly supports Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula which is by some metrics the worst terrorist threat to the American people. Not to mention their involvement in the 9/11 attacks. Saudi Arabia is at least on Iran's level, if not worse. Yet there's not only no talk of going to war with them, but we actively send them billions of dollars in weapons some of which get handed over to Al Qaeda. The idea that a war in Iran is justified on a moral basis while Saudi Arabia continues to receive US support is absurd.

Whatabout X country

Yes, what about x country. If we demonize one for doing the exact things another that we support does, then using those reasons for war is not a good justification

[Heloin]

Can someone explain to me (I’m a non American so I’m confused)...

What’s with America starting all these wars in places several continents away?

What’s there to gain? What’s the point?

How did the leaders wake up one day and say “let’s attack country X in the Middle East. It will cost billions and people will die and we can’t even create a colony anymore because colonies are not in fashion... let’s do it, it will be a good idea.”

I was expecting that after Afghanistan this “thing” would fade but it’s surprisingly persistent.

Iraq, Syria (sort of)... and now Iran too?

What is the point of this?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[North German Realm]

Whatabout X country

Yes, what about x country. If we demonize one for doing the exact things another that we support does, then using those reasons for war is not a good justification

You don't threaten to attack your allies, no matter how terrible their domestic policies are. That's like, basic diplomacy. Iran is not just a rogue, pariah state with a terrible rap sheet for human rights, but it is also not allied with the US or NATO, and thus is viable for military punitive missions, unlike KSA or Turkey.

[Thuzbekistan]

Yes, what about x country. If we demonize one for doing the exact things another that we support does, then using those reasons for war is not a good justification

You don't threaten to attack your allies, no matter how terrible their domestic policies are. That's like, basic diplomacy. Iran is not just a rogue, pariah state with a terrible rap sheet for human rights, but it is also not allied with the US or NATO, and thus is viable for military punitive missions, unlike KSA or Turkey.

Funding terrorists is not a domestic policy

[North German Realm]

You don't threaten to attack your allies, no matter how terrible their domestic policies are. That's like, basic diplomacy. Iran is not just a rogue, pariah state with a terrible rap sheet for human rights, but it is also not allied with the US or NATO, and thus is viable for military punitive missions, unlike KSA or Turkey.

Funding terrorists is not a domestic policy

I'm sure if the governments of The US and other KSA Allies agreed with you, they would have stopped being allies with the KSA. I don't deny that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of the most terrible states in the modern world and one that should have been toppled as early as 1925, but to say "Why do they not attack the KSA" when the Saudis are literally allies with most of the "Western World" is just missing the point.

[Heloin]

Funding terrorists is not a domestic policy

I'm sure if the governments of The US and other KSA Allies agreed with you, they would have stopped being allies with the KSA. I don't deny that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of the most terrible states in the modern world and one that should have been toppled as early as 1925, but to say "Why do they not attack the KSA" when the Saudis are literally allies with most of the "Western World" is just missing the point.

They don't have to be allies.

[North German Realm]

I'm sure if the governments of The US and other KSA Allies agreed with you, they would have stopped being allies with the KSA. I don't deny that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of the most terrible states in the modern world and one that should have been toppled as early as 1925, but to say "Why do they not attack the KSA" when the Saudis are literally allies with most of the "Western World" is just missing the point.

They don't have to be allies.

Yeah. From an ideological standpoint, they probably shouldn't be, but they are. Asking "Why do we attack the country that keeps saying 'DEATH TO THE US', that occupied our embassy 40 years ago, cutting off all possible relations between our nations, and that keeps occupying more embassies of nations allied to us, and who's specifically attempted multiple acts of aggression against our operatives in nations neighboring them but not the country that is, for some reason our ally?" is ridiculous. The US won't perform heavy-handed punitive action on KSA because KSA is their ally. The US may perform heavy-handed punitive action (The type it should have done in 1979 when they fucking took over the US embassy) on Iran because Iran is, due to actions taken by Iran, their enemy.

[Infected Mushroom]

Can someone explain to me (I’m a non American so I’m confused)...

What’s with America starting all these wars in places several continents away?

What’s there to gain? What’s the point?

How did the leaders wake up one day and say “let’s attack country X in the Middle East. It will cost billions and people will die and we can’t even create a colony anymore because colonies are not in fashion... let’s do it, it will be a good idea.”

I was expecting that after Afghanistan this “thing” would fade but it’s surprisingly persistent.

Iraq, Syria (sort of)... and now Iran too?

What is the point of this?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Having lived in Florida, do you have any insights on why the US government does this sort of thing?

Is it because it distracts the population from problems at home so that they can be more easily controlled? Is that where the real game is?

I don't understand...

[Thermodolia]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Having lived in Florida, do you have any insights on why the US government does this sort of thing?

Is it because it distracts the population from problems at home so that they can be more easily controlled? Is that where the real game is?

I don't understand...

You pretty much answered your own question

[Infected Mushroom]

Having lived in Florida, do you have any insights on why the US government does this sort of thing?

Is it because it distracts the population from problems at home so that they can be more easily controlled? Is that where the real game is?

I don't understand...

You pretty much answered your own question

but why would the people support it

[Heloin]

They don't have to be allies.

Yeah. From an ideological standpoint, they probably shouldn't be, but they are.

Just because they are now doesn't mean they have to keep being allies.

Asking "Why do we attack the country that keeps saying 'DEATH TO THE US', that occupied our embassy 40 years ago, cutting off all possible relations between our nations, and that keeps occupying more embassies of nations allied to us, and who's specifically attempted multiple acts of aggression against our operatives in nations neighboring them but not the country that is, for some reason our ally?" is ridiculous.

Ok, in the future avoid run-ons like that. It took me about 5 reads to work out what you were trying to say and I'll be honest I still don't quite know what that had to do with anything.

The US won't perform heavy-handed punitive action on KSA because KSA is their ally.

They don't have to still be allies. there is nothing requiring the US to stay allied to Saudi Arabia forever no matter what horrible things it does. There is no reason the US can't tell the Saudi Government to go fuck itself.

The US may perform heavy-handed punitive action (The type it should have done in 1979 when they fucking took over the US embassy) on Iran because Iran is, due to actions taken by Iran, their enemy.

What has Iran done recently that effects the US or NATO that they should care about?