Iran vs the US Thread

[Aclion]

I don't think the Trump administration wants a war with Iran, as they realize that another foreign war would be extremely unpopular, and is pretty much the the only way they will lose in 2020. What they're doing is posturing, just like Iran is.
And there's no reason to go to war with Iran. Even if we accept that a regime change is justifed and that we're able to commit to doing it there remains the fact that the older generation that supported this regime is on the way out and the younger generation is a lot more moderate. So we'll probably see reform, if not regime change, in the next few decades anyway.

Huh. My apologies, but you do see how a person, especially one of my age and lofty standing, might be mislead by the square brackets.

I don't know about lofty standing but if you're familiar enough with Wikipedia to associate the Vancouver citation system with it then you must know that the OP's content couldn't have come from Wikipedia; because it's speculation, which is something Wikipedia doesn't allow.

[Heloin]

Saudi Arabia.

What's your point? Hard to know what you're getting at when you give a two word response, son.

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

[North German Realm]

I don't think the Trump administration wants a war with Iran, as they realize that another foreign war would be extremely unpopular, and is pretty much the the only way they will lose in 2020. What they're doing is posturing, just like Iran is.
And there's no reason to go to war with Iran. Even if we accept that a regime change is justifed and that we're able to commit to doing it there remains the fact that the older generation that supported this regime is on the way out and the younger generation is a lot more moderate. So we'll probably see reform, if not regime change, in the next few decades anyway.

Huh. My apologies, but you do see how a person, especially one of my age and lofty standing, might be mislead by the square brackets.

I don't know about lofty standing but if you're familiar enough with Wikipedia to associate the Vancouver citation system with it then you must know that the OP's content couldn't have come from Wikipedia; because it's speculation, which is something Wikipedia doesn't allow.

Uuuuuuuh, no. The current generation is a lot more anti-Islamic, anti-IR, and (to a lesser degree) pro-Monarchist than the previous generation (you know, the ones who did the most idiotic thing the Iranian People as a whole have done in the last 200 years)

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

What's your point? Hard to know what you're getting at when you give a two word response, son.

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

The 2 greatest US allies in the Middle East.
1. Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East
2. Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a different Islam than Iran (I forgot whether it was sunni or shia and don't want to offend the muslims almos certain to weigh in) And we used to get a lot of our oil from them until Trump came along.

[Vyluria-Aseko]

Yeah, I'd love for Iran to go to a secular, democratic government, but reality punches me in the face considering that.

Our military spending is high as it is, and personally, we need to cut it down, and certainly a war is not gonna do anything to slash the military spending. That money could go elsewhere to improving our government at home rather than shattering governments abroad.

Second, we need to cut down on the interventions and wars that are mostly pointless in the eyes of the public. Sure, nukes may make its way to terrorist hands, but what the fuck is Iran gonna expect to happen if some terrorists set off a nuke or a dirty bomb, who's gonna be the first suspect that the UN points their fingers to? I don't think Iran is dumb enough to consider the option of giving terrorists nukes.

Third, being the respect of sovereignty for Iranian people and its government. Given larger dissent, caused by trade sanctions or deals that work against the favor of Iran, the people could call for change of government from the current Islamic regime, if that's what we're after, really. We don't always need to come in guns-a-blazing to work towards something good, because that usually screws it up.

[Heloin]

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

The 2 greatest US allies in the Middle East.
1. Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East
2. Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a different Islam than Iran (I forgot whether it was sunni or shia and don't want to offend the muslims almos certain to weigh in) And we used to get a lot of our oil from them until Trump came along.

The Saudi's are Sunni, and follow a school of Sunni called wahhabism which is an ultraconservative and extreme school of thought used by Al-Qaeda, ISIL, Boko Haram, and the Taliban. Saudi Arabia also fund these groups. Sounds like a great ally.

[Emazia]

Clears throat

WARNING: Rant ahead.

The main reason the US and its war hawks want to invade Iran is because it has nuclear weapons. This is laughable, as the US has over 3000 nuclear weapons itself. But why should we laugh? This is the overthrow of a sovereign nation. The US may preach freedom and democracy - but it has no intention of bringing that to Iraq. Look at the Contras and at COINTELPRO. It uses 'democracy' as an excuse to install friendly dictatorships! I have had enough of this bald-faced lying from the American Government, all this hypocrisy and all these falsehoods to dominate the world as though it was the world police.

The real threat to world peace - and to humanity in general - is the United States of America and all those other wannabe empires of the world. They seek nothing more than open imperialism with their tanks, open profiteering with their mega-corporations and open slavery with all their so-called democracy. I fully condemn the actions of the United States and any of its supporters for attempting to expand the despotic hegemony of the United States. If the US really is against nuclear weapons, why doesn't it cut itself down to, say, 300 nuclear weapons? Enough to ensure peace but not enough to end the world. Those bastards need to be taught a lesson right down their throats. Their false democracy shall not be brought to another nation, lest all resistance fall. I would much rather two superpowers struggling over the world rather than one open hegemony. OUT WITH THE UNITED STATES!

The rogue states of NATO have threatened the sovereignty and freedom of nations long enough. All they want is oil, slaves and genocide! We must bring a wrench to this machine and fight against any sort of war that they attempt to wage. They don't actually believe in freedom - only profit. Here it is, laid bare. The only value of the Western World: Imperialism. How can you call yourself a freedom-loving supporter of democracy if you back these tyrants and these bastards?! No, call yourself what you actually need to be called - an enabler of fascism and a blind nationalist. Enough with this! DOWN WITH NATO!

We, the people of the world, will not let you bring this war and this bloodshed to our shores. These damned profiteers deserve to suffer in their own creation. To suffer as they have made others suffer. Their slavery and genocide ends here, and it shall end forever! I say to the United States and to NATO:

DOWN WITH IMPERIALISM!

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

Yeah, I'd love for Iran to go to a secular, democratic government, but reality punches me in the face considering that.

Our military spending is high as it is, and personally, we need to cut it down, and certainly a war is not gonna do anything to slash the military spending. That money could go elsewhere to improving our government at home rather than shattering governments abroad.

Second, we need to cut down on the interventions and wars that are mostly pointless in the eyes of the public. Sure, nukes may make its way to terrorist hands, but what the fuck is Iran gonna expect to happen if some terrorists set off a nuke or a dirty bomb, who's gonna be the first suspect that the UN points their fingers to? I don't think Iran is dumb enough to consider the option of giving terrorists nukes.

Third, being the respect of sovereignty for Iranian people and its government. Given larger dissent, caused by trade sanctions or deals that work against the favor of Iran, the people could call for change of government from the current Islamic regime, if that's what we're after, really. We don't always need to come in guns-a-blazing to work towards something good, because that usually screws it up.

1. Our military spending is being used to rebuild the military
2. We actually have cut down on those interventions, even trying to get out of syria.
3. Iran literally belives they are supposed to bring the Apocalypse, they don't care what happens! What reason do they have NOT to give Nukes to Hezbollah, their proxy army.
4. The next time the Arab spring comes we will support the Movement in Iran.

[Emazia]

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

The 2 greatest US allies in the Middle East.
1. Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East
2. Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a different Islam than Iran (I forgot whether it was sunni or shia and don't want to offend the muslims almos certain to weigh in) And we used to get a lot of our oil from them until Trump came along.

Saudi Arabia is Sunni and Iran is Shia'a. Also, if you call the mass genocide and alienation of Palestinians democratic, I better call the mods for genocide denial. Although I won't because that's just the easy way out.

[Emazia]

Yeah, I'd love for Iran to go to a secular, democratic government, but reality punches me in the face considering that.

Our military spending is high as it is, and personally, we need to cut it down, and certainly a war is not gonna do anything to slash the military spending. That money could go elsewhere to improving our government at home rather than shattering governments abroad.

Second, we need to cut down on the interventions and wars that are mostly pointless in the eyes of the public. Sure, nukes may make its way to terrorist hands, but what the fuck is Iran gonna expect to happen if some terrorists set off a nuke or a dirty bomb, who's gonna be the first suspect that the UN points their fingers to? I don't think Iran is dumb enough to consider the option of giving terrorists nukes.

Third, being the respect of sovereignty for Iranian people and its government. Given larger dissent, caused by trade sanctions or deals that work against the favor of Iran, the people could call for change of government from the current Islamic regime, if that's what we're after, really. We don't always need to come in guns-a-blazing to work towards something good, because that usually screws it up.

1. Our military spending is being used to rebuild the military
2. We actually have cut down on those interventions, even trying to get out of syria.
3. Iran literally belives they are supposed to bring the Apocalypse, they don't care what happens! What reason do they have NOT to give Nukes to Hezbollah, their proxy army.
4. The next time the Arab spring comes we will support the Movement in Iran.

Read my comment.

[Thermodolia]

Saudi Arabia.

Since when is Saudi Arabia chanting "Death to America" every Friday (and more importantly, actively acting as a threat to American security as a National State)?

AQ wasn’t funded by the Iranians but the KSA.

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

Clears throat

WARNING: Rant ahead.

The main reason the US and its war hawks want to invade Iran is because it has nuclear weapons. This is laughable, as the US has over 3000 nuclear weapons itself. But why should we laugh? This is the overthrow of a sovereign nation. The US may preach freedom and democracy - but it has no intention of bringing that to Iraq. Look at the Contras and at COINTELPRO. It uses 'democracy' as an excuse to install friendly dictatorships! I have had enough of this bald-faced lying from the American Government, all this hypocrisy and all these falsehoods to dominate the world as though it was the world police.

The real threat to world peace - and to humanity in general - is the United States of America and all those other wannabe empires of the world. They seek nothing more than open imperialism with their tanks, open profiteering with their mega-corporations and open slavery with all their so-called democracy. I fully condemn the actions of the United States and any of its supporters for attempting to expand the despotic hegemony of the United States. If the US really is against nuclear weapons, why doesn't it cut itself down to, say, 300 nuclear weapons? Enough to ensure peace but not enough to end the world. Those bastards need to be taught a lesson right down their throats. Their false democracy shall not be brought to another nation, lest all resistance fall. I would much rather two superpowers struggling over the world rather than one open hegemony. OUT WITH THE UNITED STATES!

The rogue states of NATO have threatened the sovereignty and freedom of nations long enough. All they want is oil, slaves and genocide! We must bring a wrench to this machine and fight against any sort of war that they attempt to wage. They don't actually believe in freedom - only profit. Here it is, laid bare. The only value of the Western World: Imperialism. How can you call yourself a freedom-loving supporter of democracy if you back these tyrants and these bastards?! No, call yourself what you actually need to be called - an enabler of fascism and a blind nationalist. Enough with this! DOWN WITH NATO!

We, the people of the world, will not let you bring this war and this bloodshed to our shores. These damned profiteers deserve to suffer in their own creation. To suffer as they have made others suffer. Their slavery and genocide ends here, and it shall end forever! I say to the United States and to NATO:

DOWN WITH IMPERIALISM!

Who are you, Howard Zinn?

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

1. Our military spending is being used to rebuild the military
2. We actually have cut down on those interventions, even trying to get out of syria.
3. Iran literally belives they are supposed to bring the Apocalypse, they don't care what happens! What reason do they have NOT to give Nukes to Hezbollah, their proxy army.
4. The next time the Arab spring comes we will support the Movement in Iran.

Read my comment.

let me get something straight.
1. thank you for informing me which islam Saudi follows
2. What evidence do you have to support the "Israeli Genocide of Palestinians?"

[Emazia]

Clears throat

WARNING: Rant ahead.

The main reason the US and its war hawks want to invade Iran is because it has nuclear weapons. This is laughable, as the US has over 3000 nuclear weapons itself. But why should we laugh? This is the overthrow of a sovereign nation. The US may preach freedom and democracy - but it has no intention of bringing that to Iraq. Look at the Contras and at COINTELPRO. It uses 'democracy' as an excuse to install friendly dictatorships! I have had enough of this bald-faced lying from the American Government, all this hypocrisy and all these falsehoods to dominate the world as though it was the world police.

The real threat to world peace - and to humanity in general - is the United States of America and all those other wannabe empires of the world. They seek nothing more than open imperialism with their tanks, open profiteering with their mega-corporations and open slavery with all their so-called democracy. I fully condemn the actions of the United States and any of its supporters for attempting to expand the despotic hegemony of the United States. If the US really is against nuclear weapons, why doesn't it cut itself down to, say, 300 nuclear weapons? Enough to ensure peace but not enough to end the world. Those bastards need to be taught a lesson right down their throats. Their false democracy shall not be brought to another nation, lest all resistance fall. I would much rather two superpowers struggling over the world rather than one open hegemony. OUT WITH THE UNITED STATES!

The rogue states of NATO have threatened the sovereignty and freedom of nations long enough. All they want is oil, slaves and genocide! We must bring a wrench to this machine and fight against any sort of war that they attempt to wage. They don't actually believe in freedom - only profit. Here it is, laid bare. The only value of the Western World: Imperialism. How can you call yourself a freedom-loving supporter of democracy if you back these tyrants and these bastards?! No, call yourself what you actually need to be called - an enabler of fascism and a blind nationalist. Enough with this! DOWN WITH NATO!

We, the people of the world, will not let you bring this war and this bloodshed to our shores. These damned profiteers deserve to suffer in their own creation. To suffer as they have made others suffer. Their slavery and genocide ends here, and it shall end forever! I say to the United States and to NATO:

DOWN WITH IMPERIALISM!

Who are you, Howard Zinn?

Nah. But you're right, that post was too newspaper-y for the NS forums.

[Cekoviu]

If we go to war with Iran, we won't have any /Ira(.)/g countries to go to war with. That alone is a significant reason not to do it, unless the country of Irab is established.

[Khataiy]

God willing the Neo-Safavid regime is cut down soon and God willing they never come back to a state of power as they did in 1979 and May God give victory to the people of Yemen and Syria against their armies, proxies and mercanaries. May God humiliate the Mullahs of Tehran and Qom and May God avenge all the martyrs who were murdered by them. They thought they could vassalize Iraq, murder its people, murder its leader, rip apart Yemen, de-facto occupy Lebanon, change the demographics of Syria and Iraq through genocide, and turn the Yemeni people against one another these thugs are getting what they deserve if Trump goes to war with them I hope he does.

[North German Realm]

Since when is Saudi Arabia chanting "Death to America" every Friday (and more importantly, actively acting as a threat to American security as a National State)?

AQ wasn’t funded by the Iranians but the KSA.

I personally very much doubt the meme with "Every fundie in the Middle East and North Africa is a a KSA or Israeli stooge", to be honest. I don't doubt that the KSA was the ideological benefactor for it, but funding? Nah. Iran has a lot more to win from destabilizing the region than KSA ever would, seeing as KSA's money is what the US primarily uses for its missions to "stabilize" the region every so often.

[Cekoviu]

God willing the Neo-Safavid regime is cut down soon and God willing they never come back to a state of power as they did in 1979 and May God give victory to the people of Yemen and Syria against their armies, proxies and mercanaries. May God humiliate the Mullahs of Tehran and Qom and May God avenge all the martyrs who were murdered by them. They thought they could vassalize Iraq, murder its people, murder its leader, rip apart Yemen, de-facto occupy Lebanon, change the demographics of Syria and Iraq through genocide, and turn the Yemeni people against one another these thugs are getting what they deserve if Trump goes to war with them I hope he does.

May God bestow punctuation upon that wall of text.

[Emazia]

Read my comment.

let me get something straight.
1. thank you for informing me which islam Saudi follows
2. What evidence do you have to support the "Israeli Genocide of Palestinians?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethni ... _Palestine
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180 ... ah-status/
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/c ... /palestine
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/i ... e-genocide

One is Wikipedia, two are biased, one is the Human Rights Watch. I can get you more if needed.

[Scomagia]

What's your point? Hard to know what you're getting at when you give a two word response, son.

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

And?

[Emazia]

Since when is Saudi Arabia chanting "Death to America" every Friday (and more importantly, actively acting as a threat to American security as a National State)?

AQ wasn’t funded by the Iranians but the KSA.

AQ was funded by the US at one point.

[Heloin]

AQ wasn’t funded by the Iranians but the KSA.

I personally very much doubt the meme with "Every fundie in the Middle East and North Africa is a a KSA or Israeli stooge", to be honest. I don't doubt that the KSA was the ideological benefactor for it, but funding? Nah. Iran has a lot more to win from destabilizing the region than KSA ever would, seeing as KSA's money is what the US primarily uses for its missions to "stabilize" the region every so often.

It's not a meme, it's just the active reality that Saudi Arabia actively funds the world's worst terrorist groups. That doesn't forgive either country for turning every conflict in the middle east into there stupid proxy wars.

[Cekoviu]

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

And?

It's insane for us to go to war with Iran when we're actively aiding Saudi Arabia in their rampages across the Middle East and promotion of Islamic extremism abroad. But we gotta get that oil, amirite?

[Thermodolia]

Iran does a lot of shit, but Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing in spades. Theocratic states run mostly by extremists who believe America is the greatest threat to their exact version of Islam, and who fund terrorist groups around the world.

The 2 greatest US allies in the Middle East.
1. Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East

Israel sells our tech to China and Russia. And attacks our troops

2. Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a different Islam than Iran (I forgot whether it was sunni or shia and don't want to offend the muslims almos certain to weigh in) And we used to get a lot of our oil from them until Trump came along.

Trump had nothing to do with that. We became majority oil independent under Obama.

Also the KSA is a shit ally as they fund terrorist groups that we are trying to fight.

Some allies we got here

[Khataiy]

let me get something straight.
1. thank you for informing me which islam Saudi follows
2. What evidence do you have to support the "Israeli Genocide of Palestinians?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethni ... _Palestine
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180 ... ah-status/
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/c ... /palestine
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/i ... e-genocide

One is Wikipedia, two are biased, one is the Human Rights Watch. I can get you more if needed.

The Iranians don't care about Palestine thry want to hijack the cause to win over "Islamic" support and to decieve Arabs, the Iranians are worse than Israel in their genocide