Iran vs the US Thread

[Flawless Walruses]

And how many people has America killed in retaliation? Many more. America also destroyed Afghanistan. The Taliban stopped 3/4 of the world's heroin market and dealt harshly was pederasts, America is permissive toward these things in Afghanistan. How much blood and destruction will satisfy you to repay harm done by criminals eighteen years ago?

All true and fair calls, there.

If Allah knows best, he should have turned Al-Saud into glass after 9-11. After all, 17 out of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudi, and none of them were Iranian.

Why should Saudi Arabia be punished when the House of Saud's relation is only a shared nationality?

Ah no. Saudi Arabia's monarchy has been energetically spreading Wahhabist fundamentalism worldwide, with money, madrassas, and barely-covert violence against other Muslims. Al-Qaeda were one tentacle among many. Osama bin Laden only turned on his master in 1991 after Osama offered to defend Saudi Arabia in 1991, but the King preferred to pay USD$60 billion for American protection after he believed the CIA's faked satellite images of Iraqi tanks preparing to invade Saudi (they weren't - https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html).

But even afterwards the Saudi government was deeply involved in advancing and protecting Al-Qaeda, still trying to use them even after Osama fell out with his master, even to the extent of sending money to the 9-11 hijackers in their undercover identities.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/what-we-know-about-saudi-arabias-role-in-911/
https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/

Did they know Al-Qaeda was engaged in attacking the USA? Yes
Did they know the specific personnel involved in the 9-11 attacks? Yes, and they sent them money.
Did they know exactly what was planned? Unknown, at least to me.

Of course, the Saudis are far from the only powerful people with questions to answer. But none of those people are Iranian.

[Zanetonia]

Allahu A'alam.

If Allah knows best, he should have turned Al-Saud into glass after 9-11. After all, 17 out of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudi, and none of them were Iranian.

Thanks. Those Muslims are effin nuts and uneducated.
The USA is the best!

[Farnhamia]

If Allah knows best, he should have turned Al-Saud into glass after 9-11. After all, 17 out of the 19 September 11 hijackers were Saudi, and none of them were Iranian.

Thanks. Those Muslims are effin nuts and uneducated.
The USA is the best!

Not the best debut. Don't go running around calling people names.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Why should Saudi Arabia be punished when the House of Saud's relation is only a shared nationality?

Ah no. Saudi Arabia's monarchy has been energetically spreading Wahhabist fundamentalism worldwide, with money, madrassas, and barely-covert violence against other Muslims. Al-Qaeda were one tentacle among many. Osama bin Laden only turned on his master in 1991 after Osama offered to defend Saudi Arabia in 1991, but the King preferred to pay USD$60 billion for American protection after he believed the CIA's faked satellite images of Iraqi tanks preparing to invade Saudi (they weren't - https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html).

And how many people has America killed in retaliation? Many more. America also destroyed Afghanistan. The Taliban stopped 3/4 of the world's heroin market and dealt harshly was pederasts, America is permissive toward these things in Afghanistan. How much blood and destruction will satisfy you to repay harm done by criminals eighteen years ago?

All true and fair calls, there.

But I have never believed that Mohammed Atta and his merry men managed to slip through so many nets unnoticed. The Saudi government was deeply involved in creating and protecting Al-Qaeda, still trying to use them even after Osama fell out with his master, even to the extent of sending money to the 9-11 hijackers in their undercover identities.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/what-we-know-about-saudi-arabias-role-in-911/
https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/

Of course, the Saudis are far from the only powerful people with questions to answer. But none of those people are Iranian.

Wahhabism is Athari but not terrorist! Saudi Arabia has issued fawata against terrorism and suicide bombing, and bin Laden had his beginnings through Pakistan and America during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

[The United Provinces of North America]

Ah no. Saudi Arabia's monarchy has been energetically spreading Wahhabist fundamentalism worldwide, with money, madrassas, and barely-covert violence against other Muslims. Al-Qaeda were one tentacle among many. Osama bin Laden only turned on his master in 1991 after Osama offered to defend Saudi Arabia in 1991, but the King preferred to pay USD$60 billion for American protection after he believed the CIA's faked satellite images of Iraqi tanks preparing to invade Saudi (they weren't - https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html).



All true and fair calls, there.

But I have never believed that Mohammed Atta and his merry men managed to slip through so many nets unnoticed. The Saudi government was deeply involved in creating and protecting Al-Qaeda, still trying to use them even after Osama fell out with his master, even to the extent of sending money to the 9-11 hijackers in their undercover identities.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/what-we-know-about-saudi-arabias-role-in-911/
https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/

Of course, the Saudis are far from the only powerful people with questions to answer. But none of those people are Iranian.

Wahhabism is Athari but not terrorist! Saudi Arabia has issued fawata against terrorism and suicide bombing, and bin Laden had his beginnings through Pakistan and America during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

The United States should renegotiate with Iran and do it respectively, until then nothing is going to happen. Only to argue amongst each other, possibly war if tensions continue to escalate. Other than that I don't see a war happening.

[Flawless Walruses]

Wahhabism is Athari but not terrorist! Saudi Arabia has issued fawata against terrorism and suicide bombing, and bin Laden had his beginnings through Pakistan and America during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

The Sa'udi government and royal family most definitely are involved in terrorism. Preaching it. Funding it. Supplying weapons and training. Read the 9-11 report articles I linked to in my earlier reply, or read anything about Syria or Yemen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Whenever you find a crazed, head-chopping, lung-eating takfiri terrorist killing Muslims, you find a pocket full of Saudi money. Totally not terrorism...

And Sa'udi wants to spread this miracle into (Shi'a) Iran. Wonderful. Sign America up.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Wahhabism is Athari but not terrorist! Saudi Arabia has issued fawata against terrorism and suicide bombing, and bin Laden had his beginnings through Pakistan and America during the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

The Sa'udi government and royal family most definitely are involved in terrorism. Preaching it. Funding it. Supplying weapons and training. Read the 9-11 report articles I linked to in my earlier reply, or read anything about Syria or Yemen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Whenever you find a crazed, head-chopping, lung-eating takfiri terrorist killing Muslims, you find a pocket full of Saudi money. Totally not terrorism...

And Sa'udi wants to spread this miracle into (Shi'a) Iran. Wonderful. Sign America up.

Saudi Arabia hates Iran more than anything, they will support anyone that end, including Israel. Outside of threatres like Yemem and Syria where Iran is involved however they not only anti terrorist they are also even anti Islamist except in their own state, going so far as to pressure the United States to label the Muslim Brotherhood, their ally in Yemen and Syria, a terrorist organization.

[Flawless Walruses]

The Sa'udi government and royal family most definitely are involved in terrorism. Preaching it. Funding it. Supplying weapons and training. Read the 9-11 report articles I linked to in my earlier reply, or read anything about Syria or Yemen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Whenever you find a crazed, head-chopping, lung-eating takfiri terrorist killing Muslims, you find a pocket full of Saudi money. Totally not terrorism...

And Sa'udi wants to spread this miracle into (Shi'a) Iran. Wonderful. Sign America up.

Saudi Arabia hates Iran more than anything, they will support anyone that end, including Israel. Outside of threatres like Yemem and Syria where Iran is involved however they not only anti terrorist they are also even anti Islamist except in their own state, going so far as to pressure the United States to label the Muslim Brotherhood, their ally in Yemen and Syria, a terrorist organization.

Saudi royal family hates anything they can't buy. They buy terrorism, flattery, fast cars, racehorses and real estate around the world.

But being a family of rich party boys, sipping whisky, snorting Israeli-supplied cocaine and sleeping with CIA-supplied eastern European hookers has a downside - your loyal sincere Islamist terrorists eventually find out and start trying to kill you.

Happened with Al-Qaeda. Happened with the Muslim Brotherhood affiliates. Happened with ISIS. Will happen in Yemen. That's why they need to keep their head-choppers busy, preferably in Iran or somewhere else outside their borders.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Saudi Arabia hates Iran more than anything, they will support anyone that end, including Israel. Outside of threatres like Yemem and Syria where Iran is involved however they not only anti terrorist they are also even anti Islamist except in their own state, going so far as to pressure the United States to label the Muslim Brotherhood, their ally in Yemen and Syria, a terrorist organization.

Saudi royal family hates anything they can't buy. They buy terrorism, flattery, fast cars, racehorses and real estate around the world.

But being a family of rich party boys, sipping whisky, snorting Israeli-supplied cocaine and sleeping with CIA-supplied eastern European hookers has a downside - your loyal sincere Islamist terrorists eventually find out and start trying to kill you.

Happened with Al-Qaeda. Happened with the Muslim Brotherhood affiliates. Happened with ISIS. Will happen in Yemen. That's why they need to keep their head-choppers busy, preferably in Iran or somewhere else outside their borders.

The favorite western tale of the munafiqun whose zealous cause is religious fanaticism, I think the story is so popular because it combines the worst of both worlds.

[Flawless Walruses]

Saudi royal family hates anything they can't buy. They buy terrorism, flattery, fast cars, racehorses and real estate around the world.

But being a family of rich party boys, sipping whisky, snorting Israeli-supplied cocaine and sleeping with CIA-supplied eastern European hookers has a downside - your loyal sincere Islamist terrorists eventually find out and start trying to kill you.

Happened with Al-Qaeda. Happened with the Muslim Brotherhood affiliates. Happened with ISIS. Will happen in Yemen. That's why they need to keep their head-choppers busy, preferably in Iran or somewhere else outside their borders.

The favorite western tale of the munafiqun whose zealous cause is religious fanaticism, I think the story is so popular because it combines the worst of both worlds.

Absolutely. If they were only one or the other they wouldn't need our weapons so consistently.

But when you want to be Caliph and remain a party boy, you are a never-ending gift to arms-dealers, spyware-sellers and mercenary-recruiters until your oil runs out.

(No, MBS doesn't call himself Caliph in public. Not powerful enough yet. But Saudi Arabia uses a lot of sly formulas to describe itself (Protector of the Two Holy Mosques) etc., inching towards that title like a snake with its eyes on a bird. Maybe if MBS takes down Iran and builds a Saudi nuclear plant King Salman can openly claim the Caliphate for his son.)

[Al Mumtahanah]

The favorite western tale of the munafiqun whose zealous cause is religious fanaticism, I think the story is so popular because it combines the worst of both worlds.

Absolutely. If they were only one or the other they wouldn't need our weapons so consistently.

But when you want to be Caliph and remain a party boy, you are a never-ending gift to arms-dealers, spyware-sellers and mercenary-recruiters until your oil runs out.

(No, MBS doesn't call himself Caliph in public. Not powerful enough yet. But Saudi Arabia uses a lot of sly formulas to describe itself (Protector of the Two Holy Mosques) etc., inching towards that title like a snake with its eyes on a bird. Maybe if MBS takes down Iran and builds a Saudi nuclear plant King Salman can openly claim the Caliphate for his son.)

The ultimate goal of the Ikhwan is to restore the Caliphate, so why would the Saud opppse them so vigorously if your theory has a basis?

[Flawless Walruses]

Absolutely. If they were only one or the other they wouldn't need our weapons so consistently.

But when you want to be Caliph and remain a party boy, you are a never-ending gift to arms-dealers, spyware-sellers and mercenary-recruiters until your oil runs out.

(No, MBS doesn't call himself Caliph in public. Not powerful enough yet. But Saudi Arabia uses a lot of sly formulas to describe itself (Protector of the Two Holy Mosques) etc., inching towards that title like a snake with its eyes on a bird. Maybe if MBS takes down Iran and builds a Saudi nuclear plant King Salman can openly claim the Caliphate for his son.)

The ultimate goal of the Ikhwan is to restore the Caliphate, so why would the Saud opppse them so vigorously if your theory has a basis?

Would the Ikhwan want a party-boy as Caliph? One who purchases military, intel and political support from Israel and America with the lives and freedoms of his neighbors (Palestine, Iraq, Syrian, Yemen and now Iran)?

To ask that question is to answer it.

[Phoenicaea]

^ the substantial matter is not prestige. it is peaceful a corrupt and bankrupt heir as chief stains credibility and trust, still whatever it is not an absolutist regime.

the reason is america is not the most influent state, for there is each instant a state that dictates whats licit. china holds the helm, war would depend on its wish (supplies, logistics).

[Al Mumtahanah]

The ultimate goal of the Ikhwan is to restore the Caliphate, so why would the Saud opppse them so vigorously if your theory has a basis?

Would the Ikhwan want a party-boy as Caliph? One who purchases military, intel and political support from Israel and America with the lives and freedoms of his neighbors (Palestine, Iraq, Syrian, Yemen and now Iran)?

To ask that question is to answer it.

So instead they back people who are even more rigorous in expectations?

[Christian Confederation]

Iran is a wild card, so let's take a play from Russia's playbook and go "Stabilize" area.
It worked great in the caucases.

[Vassenor]

Iran is a wild card, so let's take a play from Russia's playbook and go "Stabilize" area.
It worked great in the caucases.

That sounds suspiciously like you're trying to use euphemisms to talk around something. So what would stabilisation entail in this context?

[Novus America]

Absolutely. If they were only one or the other they wouldn't need our weapons so consistently.

But when you want to be Caliph and remain a party boy, you are a never-ending gift to arms-dealers, spyware-sellers and mercenary-recruiters until your oil runs out.

(No, MBS doesn't call himself Caliph in public. Not powerful enough yet. But Saudi Arabia uses a lot of sly formulas to describe itself (Protector of the Two Holy Mosques) etc., inching towards that title like a snake with its eyes on a bird. Maybe if MBS takes down Iran and builds a Saudi nuclear plant King Salman can openly claim the Caliphate for his son.)

The ultimate goal of the Ikhwan is to restore the Caliphate, so why would the Saud opppse them so vigorously if your theory has a basis?

Because the Ikhwan turned against the authority of the House of Saud.
The House of Saud wants power for itself. It supports those it thinks furthers its goals, and opposes those it thinks do not.
When the Ikhwan ceased to advance the goals of the House of Saud, the House of Saud crushed them.

[Al Mumtahanah]

The ultimate goal of the Ikhwan is to restore the Caliphate, so why would the Saud opppse them so vigorously if your theory has a basis?

Because the Ikhwan turned against the authority of the House of Saud.
The House of Saud wants power for itself. It supports those it thinks furthers its goals, and opposes those it thinks do not.
When the Ikhwan ceased to advance the goals of the House of Saud, the House of Saud crushed them.

So they support Al Thani but not Saud?

[Novus America]

Because the Ikhwan turned against the authority of the House of Saud.
The House of Saud wants power for itself. It supports those it thinks furthers its goals, and opposes those it thinks do not.
When the Ikhwan ceased to advance the goals of the House of Saud, the House of Saud crushed them.

So they support Al Thani but not Saud?

Who is they?
Obviously the Saudi government supports the head of House Saud over the head of House Al Thani.

[Al Mumtahanah]

So they support Al Thani but not Saud?

Who is they?
Obviously the Saudi government supports the head of House Saud over the head of House Al Thani.

They are the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Christian Confederation]

Iran is a wild card, so let's take a play from Russia's playbook and go "Stabilize" area.
It worked great in the caucases.

That sounds suspiciously like you're trying to use euphemisms to talk around something. So what would stabilisation entail in this context?

Invasion of course.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NYioaoSwKv8

[Mostrov]

Ah no. Saudi Arabia's monarchy has been energetically spreading Wahhabist fundamentalism worldwide, with money, madrassas, and barely-covert violence against other Muslims. Al-Qaeda were one tentacle among many. Osama bin Laden only turned on his master in 1991 after Osama offered to defend Saudi Arabia in 1991, but the King preferred to pay USD$60 billion for American protection after he believed the CIA's faked satellite images of Iraqi tanks preparing to invade Saudi (they weren't - https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p01s02-wosc.html).

But even afterwards the Saudi government was deeply involved in advancing and protecting Al-Qaeda, still trying to use them even after Osama fell out with his master, even to the extent of sending money to the 9-11 hijackers in their undercover identities.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/18/what-we-know-about-saudi-arabias-role-in-911/
https://nypost.com/2016/04/17/how-us-covered-up-saudi-role-in-911/

Did they know Al-Qaeda was engaged in attacking the USA? Yes
Did they know the specific personnel involved in the 9-11 attacks? Yes, and they sent them money.
Did they know exactly what was planned? Unknown, at least to me.

Of course, the Saudis are far from the only powerful people with questions to answer. But none of those people are Iranian.

The Sa'udi government and royal family most definitely are involved in terrorism. Preaching it. Funding it. Supplying weapons and training. Read the 9-11 report articles I linked to in my earlier reply, or read anything about Syria or Yemen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/world/middleeast/us-relies-heavily-on-saudi-money-to-support-syrian-rebels.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Whenever you find a crazed, head-chopping, lung-eating takfiri terrorist killing Muslims, you find a pocket full of Saudi money. Totally not terrorism...

And Sa'udi wants to spread this miracle into (Shi'a) Iran. Wonderful. Sign America up.

Saudi royal family hates anything they can't buy. They buy terrorism, flattery, fast cars, racehorses and real estate around the world.

But being a family of rich party boys, sipping whisky, snorting Israeli-supplied cocaine and sleeping with CIA-supplied eastern European hookers has a downside - your loyal sincere Islamist terrorists eventually find out and start trying to kill you.

Happened with Al-Qaeda. Happened with the Muslim Brotherhood affiliates. Happened with ISIS. Will happen in Yemen. That's why they need to keep their head-choppers busy, preferably in Iran or somewhere else outside their borders.

Absolutely. If they were only one or the other they wouldn't need our weapons so consistently.

But when you want to be Caliph and remain a party boy, you are a never-ending gift to arms-dealers, spyware-sellers and mercenary-recruiters until your oil runs out.

(No, MBS doesn't call himself Caliph in public. Not powerful enough yet. But Saudi Arabia uses a lot of sly formulas to describe itself (Protector of the Two Holy Mosques) etc., inching towards that title like a snake with its eyes on a bird. Maybe if MBS takes down Iran and builds a Saudi nuclear plant King Salman can openly claim the Caliphate for his son.)

Would the Ikhwan want a party-boy as Caliph? One who purchases military, intel and political support from Israel and America with the lives and freedoms of his neighbors (Palestine, Iraq, Syrian, Yemen and now Iran)?

To ask that question is to answer it.

The House of Saud has over 15,000 members, that some support terrorism is mere statistics, just as there are some who are dissidents and feminists. Unsurprisingly, given the region, there are many deep-pocketed donors, not just from Saudi Arabia, but Qatar, the UAE, Bahrain etc. For instance, the father of Osama bin Ladin was the wealthiest private citizen of the country, and his brothers inherited this wealth, how much of this went to terrorism is anyone's guess and the largest shareholder of the current company, Bakr bin Laden, was only arrested in 2017 and then released anyway—if there is one rule in the middle-east it is that money buys power, and therefore immunity. Another such name is Mohammed Hussein Al Amoudi, who has had vague allegations of funding terrorism circle him for years. Or the Khashoggi's, especially Adnan—who is a good beginning to research to see how small this world is—, arm's dealers and éminences grises for much CIA and other 'unofficial' matters. The Saudi's just happen to have had the luck of sitting upon the greatest geological prize of all time, they are no different from any of the other rulers in the area: they only have more money. Ironically, I should add, the private lives of these princes are quite liberal, and that includes the women—who, if you happen upon a picture of a Saudi Princess, will often be wearing a more Iranian-style Hijab than the Niqab more common in the region.

You throw around the term Wahhabi far too loosely, and while it may have been accurate during the times of the Saudi's being austere desert princes, it is no longer nearly applicable. There has been a complicated interplay between Islam and modernization in the last century: for example, the Muslim Brotherhood being part of the revival of political Islam since the days of Ottoman quietism which co-opted many of the parts of the Saudi State to the consternation of the ruling family since their seeking asylum after Nasser banned them in Egypt, and whose star once more waxed once he lost the war against Israel. This is eliding complexities such as the seizure of the Grand Mosque in 1979 and altogether ignoring parts of the world where Islam has seen to become part of modernity, such as in Indonesia. Perhaps the matter is simpler than a conspiracy than a result of genuinely pious people with money propagating their faith, as indeed do all the gulf states—seemingly without the stigma.

The title Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques has been used for over 1000 years and has no association with aspirations to the Caliphate: the Islamic world would be outraged at any Saudi attempt to claim such a title, as they are neither of the Quraysh clan nor especially popular among the Arab world. Ironically the people who did lay a claim to it were the Kings of Jordan, then Hejaz, in the 1920's to a rather dismal reception: but far from calling for the destruction of the Jordanians we see them as an exemplar for the region, and who ironically were unpopular for their co-existence with Israel: the first king of Jordan, Abdullah, being assassinated for this very reason.

It just sounds as though you have minimal knowledge of the area and its history and are simply labelling what you see as bad Islam as Wahhabism, all the knowledge of which you have gotten from your newspaper, whereas presumably good Islam is that which is amenable to western interests: if you want to spout pseudo-racist stereotypes you might as well be honest about it, rather than pretending to be a social progressive while looking down on unenlightened brown people.

[Vassenor]

That sounds suspiciously like you're trying to use euphemisms to talk around something. So what would stabilisation entail in this context?

Invasion of course.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NYioaoSwKv8

Remember when the whole point of electing Trump was to stop this sort of thing happening?

[Novus America]

Who is they?
Obviously the Saudi government supports the head of House Saud over the head of House Al Thani.

They are the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is currently quite opposed to the House of Saud an is outlawed in Saudi Arabia. They used to be allies, but had a falling out and are now adversaries.
So yes the Muslim Brotherhood currently prefers Al Thani.

[Al Mumtahanah]

They are the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is currently quite opposed to the House of Saud.

Because Saud labelled them a terrorist organization and is blockading Qatar for even tolerating them.