Iran vs the US Thread

[Sundowers]

According to Trump he called off the strike with only 10 minutes to spare. He apparently didn’t want 150 people to die saying it was a proportional response

Though Trump has a tendency to exaggerate, that actually is reasonable.
Killing 150 people to avenge a robot is probably not proportionate.

Where did you guys get 150 from? From what I read all the targets where Iranian anti air facilities. Which do not have a large staff.

[US-SSR]

Though Trump has a tendency to exaggerate, that actually is reasonable.
Killing 150 people to avenge a robot is probably not proportionate.

Where did you guys get 150 from? From what I read all the targets where Iranian anti air facilities. Which do not have a large staff.

Any statement beginning, "according to Trump," must take into account the 10000+ lies he has told since his inauguration. The fact is the man has no credibility left. Ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not helpful.

[The Alma Mater]

Any neoconservative exceptionalists here cheering for the Iraq War 2.0?

Isn't anti-cristian to cheer for war?

As another guy said above, any blow to a theocracy is good. If war does happen, I hope for a quick deposition of the regime and the establishment of democracy and secularism, even if that's unlikely to happen.

On paper Iran already is a democracy. Arguably even more so than the USA, since they have more than 2 politcal parties that matter.
Of course, the Ayatolla ruins it all a bit.

[Aureumterra]

Where did you guys get 150 from? From what I read all the targets where Iranian anti air facilities. Which do not have a large staff.

Any statement beginning, "according to Trump," must take into account the 10000+ lies he has told since his inauguration. The fact is the man has no credibility left. Ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not helpful.

Loving the pacifists here going full warhawk

[Vassenor]

Any statement beginning, "according to Trump," must take into account the 10000+ lies he has told since his inauguration. The fact is the man has no credibility left. Ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not helpful.

Loving the pacifists here going full warhawk

Where are you getting warhawkism from this? Saying that ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not going to help stability in the region seems kind of the antithesis of demanding war.

[Nakena]

Any statement beginning, "according to Trump," must take into account the 10000+ lies he has told since his inauguration. The fact is the man has no credibility left. Ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not helpful.

Loving the pacifists here going full warhawk

Yeah isn't amazing? And then we're not moderates.

[Aureumterra]

Loving the pacifists here going full warhawk

Where are you getting warhawkism from this? Saying that ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not going to help stability in the region seems kind of the antithesis of demanding war.

I bet that you would’ve been mad if he had gone through with it as well

[Novus America]

Though Trump has a tendency to exaggerate, that actually is reasonable.
Killing 150 people to avenge a robot is probably not proportionate.

Where did you guys get 150 from? From what I read all the targets where Iranian anti air facilities. Which do not have a large staff.

“....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights [sic] when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....
...proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!”

I would not be surprised if Iran uses human shield like tactics though.

[Galloism]

According to Trump he called off the strike with only 10 minutes to spare. He apparently didn’t want 150 people to die saying it was a proportional response

Though Trump has a tendency to exaggerate, that actually is reasonable.
Killing 150 people to avenge a robot is probably not proportionate.

Don't worry, the time is coming when the robots will avenge their own.

[Novus America]

Where are you getting warhawkism from this? Saying that ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not going to help stability in the region seems kind of the antithesis of demanding war.

I bet that you would’ve been mad if he had gone through with it as well

Of course. Anything Trump does is automatically bad. Just because.

[Aureumterra]

I bet that you would’ve been mad if he had gone through with it as well

Of course. Anything Trump does is automatically bad. Just because.

If Trump cured cancer, people would be saying he’s being mean to the cancer cells

[US-SSR]

Loving the pacifists here going full warhawk

Where are you getting warhawkism from this? Saying that ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not going to help stability in the region seems kind of the antithesis of demanding war.

What it is not going to help is the credibility of the US government, therefore its ability to defend its interests not only in the region but also around the globe. One can criticize one's country and also want it to be strong. Under this feckless administration the US is growing weaker and its adversaries stronger every day.

[Novus America]

Where are you getting warhawkism from this? Saying that ordering, then calling off, a military operation is not going to help stability in the region seems kind of the antithesis of demanding war.

What it is not going to help is the credibility of the US government, therefore its ability to defend its interests not only in the region but also around the globe. One can criticize one's country and also want it to be strong. Under this feckless administration the US is growing weaker and its adversaries stronger every day.

But one has to offer an alternative. And the US getting weaker and our enemies stronger has been going on decades.

Trump has done some good, and some bad things. He is a very mixed bag, but I take him over Obama’s weakness. At least he is doing a little to stand up to the PRC and Iran.

[Nea Byzantia]

What it is not going to help is the credibility of the US government, therefore its ability to defend its interests not only in the region but also around the globe. One can criticize one's country and also want it to be strong. Under this feckless administration the US is growing weaker and its adversaries stronger every day.

But one has to offer an alternative. And the US getting weaker and our enemies stronger has been going on decades.

Trump has done some good, and some bad things. He is a very mixed bag, but I take him over Obama’s weakness. At least he is doing a little to stand up to the PRC and Iran.

The real question is, is it too little, too late.

[Novus America]

But one has to offer an alternative. And the US getting weaker and our enemies stronger has been going on decades.

Trump has done some good, and some bad things. He is a very mixed bag, but I take him over Obama’s weakness. At least he is doing a little to stand up to the PRC and Iran.

The real question is, is it too little, too late.

It might be. From Bush I onwards it has been downhill TBH.
I do not think Trump has been nearly enough to completely change the trajectory, but his willingness to look at a new course and reject at least some of the ruinous post Cold War idiocy is welcome.

[Nakena]

The real question is, is it too little, too late.

It might be. From Bush I onwards it has been downhill TBH.

Removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq changed the entire balance in the middle east to the Shia's favor.

Bush kept just the military pressure onto everything before it blew up under Obama.

[Costa Hermosa]

Interesting...

[Nea Byzantia]

The real question is, is it too little, too late.

It might be. From Bush I onwards it has been downhill TBH.

Because America began to rest on its laurels, and began to eat itself, as all Empires do when they eliminate all their rivals; and then new rivals sprout up out of nowhere, like mushrooms after a good rain. But by then, its too late.

[Loben The 2nd]

It might be. From Bush I onwards it has been downhill TBH.

Removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq changed the entire balance in the middle east to the Shia's favor.

Big mistake. Should’ve set up a fake election with him winning, maybe get him to buy American guns and be done with it.

[Nea Byzantia]

Removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq changed the entire balance in the middle east to the Shia's favor.

Big mistake. Should’ve set up a fake election with him winning, maybe get him to buy American guns and be done with it.

Or not overthrow him, and don't even invade Iraq in the first place. Would that have been so hard?

[Nakena]

Removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq changed the entire balance in the middle east to the Shia's favor.

Big mistake. Should’ve set up a fake election with him winning, maybe get him to buy American guns and be done with it.

I'd bet he would have totally up for a deal with Rumsfeld. Not like they didn it before. Besides Saddam Hussein was like the Saturday Cartoon Morning villian of the 1990s. Always there, but never really dangerous, but to little children.

[Gormwood]

Of course. Anything Trump does is automatically bad. Just because.

If Trump cured cancer, people would be saying he’s being mean to the cancer cells

Donnie's idea of curing cancer would be banning wind turbines. Sheesh, Kim Jong-Un doesn't even get a fraction of the hype.

[Loben The 2nd]

Big mistake. Should’ve set up a fake election with him winning, maybe get him to buy American guns and be done with it.

I'd bet he would have totally up for a deal with Rumsfeld. Not like they didn it before. Besides Saddam Hussein was like the Saturday Cartoon Morning villian of the 1990s. Always there, but never really dangerous, but to little children.

I still remember when sgt slaughter was a big supporter of his back in the day. Shit was awesome.

[Novus America]

It might be. From Bush I onwards it has been downhill TBH.

Removing Saddam Hussein from Iraq changed the entire balance in the middle east to the Shia's favor.

Bush kept just the military pressure onto everything before it blew up under Obama.

Well definitely, but really the problem goes back to the first Bush. We did not expect the Cold War to end, had no plan, and bought into Francis Fukuyama’s End of History lunacy.

But yes, the reason we played the Iran-Iraq War we did was to keep either side from getting to much power. It was dirty, ugly business. But it was necessary.

We did much better with that stuff than the blind Post Cold War idealism unfortunately.

[US-SSR]

What it is not going to help is the credibility of the US government, therefore its ability to defend its interests not only in the region but also around the globe. One can criticize one's country and also want it to be strong. Under this feckless administration the US is growing weaker and its adversaries stronger every day.

But one has to offer an alternative. And the US getting weaker and our enemies stronger has been going on decades.

Trump has done some good, and some bad things. He is a very mixed bag, but I take him over Obama’s weakness. At least he is doing a little to stand up to the PRC and Iran.

The alternative was a multinational agreement that constrained Iran's nuclear development and offered a route to engage with Teheran on other areas of concern. Trump walked away from that and we are in the situation we find today. Now the alternative is an agreement that is not going to be more hard on Iran than the one we had.

But anyone who thinks another ground war in the Middle East, one fought without any allies and against the opposition of every other country in the world, would be superior to that is either delusional or actively working to undermine the power and influence of the US.