Iran vs the US Thread

[El-Amin Caliphate]

1: Prove every claim you made here
2: Is gassing Kurds a sign honor and glory?
3: Wasn't the Al-Anfaal Campaign a war crime?

What I said are known facts he fought Iran, do you not know this? The gassing are exaggerated no Iraqis or innocent civilians are intentionally targeted only Safavid invaders and collaborating factions like Communists, Separatists and Safavid sympathizers, President Saddam committed no crime other than protecting the Arabs from the evil that the Safavids are doing today solely because no one is willing to fight them or stop them like President Saddam, aside from perhaps President Trump. Invading Kuwait was a mistake, undoubtedly but everyone makes mistakes. Iraq did strike first, Praise be to Allah to defend the people of Ahwaz and stop the Safavids from doing the evil they were planning, it would not be allowed Islamically to be Iran's neighbor and not go to war with them.

Now you have more claims to prove.

[Khataiy]

What I said are known facts he fought Iran, do you not know this? The gassing are exaggerated no Iraqis or innocent civilians are intentionally targeted only Safavid invaders and collaborating factions like Communists, Separatists and Safavid sympathizers, President Saddam committed no crime other than protecting the Arabs from the evil that the Safavids are doing today solely because no one is willing to fight them or stop them like President Saddam, aside from perhaps President Trump. Invading Kuwait was a mistake, undoubtedly but everyone makes mistakes. Iraq did strike first, Praise be to Allah to defend the people of Ahwaz and stop the Safavids from doing the evil they were planning, it would not be allowed Islamically to be Iran's neighbor and not go to war with them.

Now you have more claims to prove.

Oh my, May Allah guide you brother, the massacres in Ghouta, Mukhayam al-Yarmouk, Aleppo and Mosul weren't enough?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Now you have more claims to prove.

Oh my, May Allah guide you brother, the massacres in Ghouta, Mukhayam al-Yarmouk, Aleppo and Mosul weren't enough?

Those massacres have no bearing on you proving your claims. This is how debate and general discussion works. When someone asks you to prove a claim you yourself made, it is your responsibility to prove said claim that you made.

[Kowani]

Welp, peace was nice.

[Galloism]

Welp, peace was nice.

Oh I still hold out hope. There’s lots of saber rattling going on, but trump keeps pulling back from an actual war.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

There are legitimate grievances to both sides. Contrary to what Fox News would indicate, Iranians don't have hostilities with America just out of plain evil and insanity. Rather, their grievances are historically based. Donald Trump and the Republican party have accelerated tensions far too quickly, and there was a large rush to judgement on their part. If the drone was in Iranian airspace, which hasn't been determined yet, then they had every right to shoot it down.

[Galloism]

There are legitimate grievances to both sides. Contrary to what Fox News would indicate, Iranians don't have hostilities with America just out of plain evil and insanity. Rather, their grievances are historically based. Donald Trump and the Republican party have accelerated tensions far too quickly, and there was a large rush to judgement on their part. If the drone was in Iranian airspace, which hasn't been determined yet, then they had every right to shoot it down.

Au contraire, as the rightful owners of planet earth, if there was an unintentional flyby of their airspace, they should just contact our ambassador and deliver feedback regarding their feelings.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

There are legitimate grievances to both sides. Contrary to what Fox News would indicate, Iranians don't have hostilities with America just out of plain evil and insanity. Rather, their grievances are historically based. Donald Trump and the Republican party have accelerated tensions far too quickly, and there was a large rush to judgement on their part. If the drone was in Iranian airspace, which hasn't been determined yet, then they had every right to shoot it down.

Well apparently when the order was made America had all kinds of naval ships and planes ready to fire. So Iran had more than enough justified reason to defend itself.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

Iran could strike the US with nuclear weapons and Americans would still defend Iran.

Yes, Americans are notorious for their ardent opposition to military intervention in the Middle East.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Iran could strike the US with nuclear weapons and Americans would still defend Iran.

Yes, Americans are notorious for their ardent opposition to military intervention in the Middle East.

He's not wrong tho, at least in my personal case. As much as I dislike Iran I'd still defend it from America.

[Galloism]

Yes, Americans are notorious for their ardent opposition to military intervention in the Middle East.

He's not wrong tho, at least I my personal case. As much as I dislike Iran I'd still defend it from America.

If they started lobbing nukes?

[The Batorys]

That still doesn't explain anything. By 1982 Iran had pushed Iraq out of it's borders so I don't see how something that happened in 1985 had anything to do with it and I also don't see how Saddam would have done anything since it was because of him that Iraq lost the war.

You literally don't get it Iran and the Zionists are one they worked very hard for an extremely long time to remove Saddam because he was the only thing standing the way of leading a successful and powerful Arab nation and defending Arabs from the plots of the Zionists and Neo-Safavids.

This is the most delusional thing I've seen today.

[Major-Tom]

Considering that Iran has 500,000 plus active personnel in it's military, the slim possibility of a draft comes up if relations with Iran escalate past a certain point. I sincerely doubt that'll happen - but if it does, then a good number of us are fucked.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

There are legitimate grievances to both sides. Contrary to what Fox News would indicate, Iranians don't have hostilities with America just out of plain evil and insanity. Rather, their grievances are historically based. Donald Trump and the Republican party have accelerated tensions far too quickly, and there was a large rush to judgement on their part. If the drone was in Iranian airspace, which hasn't been determined yet, then they had every right to shoot it down.

Au contraire, as the rightful owners of planet earth, if there was an unintentional flyby of their airspace, they should just contact our ambassador and deliver feedback regarding their feelings.

A lot of the debate around who's correct has taken place over pretty xenophobic lines. I had the misfortune of watching Sean Hannity claim that the "Mullahs" have to be lying because Iranians have chanted "Death to America", as if Americans have 1) an amazing track record of being respectful to the middle east and 2) as if that's any worse than whatever John Bolton cranks out of his demented mind. It seems that Donald Trump thinks that America is incapable of doing any harm, and that anybody who has any grievances with us is basically evil.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

He's not wrong tho, at least I my personal case. As much as I dislike Iran I'd still defend it from America.

If they started lobbing nukes?

Well then I'd stop defending them.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

Yes, Americans are notorious for their ardent opposition to military intervention in the Middle East.

He's not wrong tho, at least in my personal case. As much as I dislike Iran I'd still defend it from America.

I interpreted him as basically talking about White America.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Considering that Iran has 500,000 plus active personnel in it's military, the slim possibility of a draft comes up if relations with Iran escalate past a certain point. I sincerely doubt that'll happen - but if it does, then a good number of us are fucked.

I mean, conscientious objection exists. Not that I have to worry about that, I have CCHS

[Khataiy]

Oh my, May Allah guide you brother, the massacres in Ghouta, Mukhayam al-Yarmouk, Aleppo and Mosul weren't enough?

Those massacres have no bearing on you proving your claims. This is how debate and general discussion works. When someone asks you to prove a claim you yourself made, it is your responsibility to prove said claim that you made.

Wallahi, Iran has demonstrated their intentions in Iraq and Syria is this not enough? The children gassed to death by Bashar? The children run over by their tanks? Massacres so great even the crooks who support Bashar condemn their brutality? Do you not see it? Do you not see the colonization and theft by their hands? Do you not know of their gangs, that exist for sole reason of murdering people? Wallahi tears are shed writing this, tears are shed knowing that no one on this earth not even people who call themselves Muslims dare take a stand against them, no one and the earth has turned their backs on the Arab people at let them die in the most horrendous of ways at the hands of the Safavids and when the one lions with the courage to fight them fought them and was murdered by these people, who shouted loudly and proudly their hatred, as Saddam said the Kalima, he was a martyr and when Umar Ibn Khattab said Iraq was Allah's spear in the Earth and the skull of the Arabs, Saddam brought this saying to life under his leadership, May Allah grant his Akhirah with Izz for his services.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

Welp, peace was nice.

Oh I still hold out hope. There’s lots of saber rattling going on, but trump keeps pulling back from an actual war.

There won't be a war. I don't even think there will be military strikes. There is virtually no public support for a war against Iran, and Iran would never declare war on America in its current economic condition. Iran's GDP is projected to contract by 9% next year.

[Galloism]

If they started lobbing nukes?

Well then I'd stop defending them.

That’s better.

[Vassenor]

Oh I still hold out hope. There’s lots of saber rattling going on, but trump keeps pulling back from an actual war.

There won't be a war. I don't even think there will be military strikes. There is virtually no public support for a war against Iran, and Iran would never declare war on America in its current economic condition. Iran's GDP is projected to contract by 9% next year.

Never underestimate Trump's desire for a perceived popularity boost.

[Major-Tom]

Considering that Iran has 500,000 plus active personnel in it's military, the slim possibility of a draft comes up if relations with Iran escalate past a certain point. I sincerely doubt that'll happen - but if it does, then a good number of us are fucked.

I mean, conscientious objection exists. Not that I have to worry about that, I have CCHS

Holy shit. Never had heard of that disease before, but good on ya for sticking it out.

I got some major scoliosis, but I had the corrective spinal surgery for it years ago, so I'd probably be enlisted in some far-fetched hypothetical.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

Ironically, American intervention in the Middle East 1) contributed to the Shah being overthrown and replaced with the current theocracy and 2) strengthened Iran by deposing of Saddam's Sunni regime, which ruled over a 2/3rds Shia population. Who knows what future ramifications an intervention in Iran could have? All around just a terrible, counterproductive idea.

[The Batorys]

That would require Iran's leaders to be much, much more stupid than they actually are.

They may be authoritarian theocrats, but they are not stupid and they are not suicidal.

I don’t think anyone wants to be the first to lob a nuke - especially against the country that has more nukes than anybody else.

Even Iran isn’t suicidal.

Iran's leaders want what all leaders want... to remain in power.

Really hard to do that after starting a war with a very obviously more powerful country. Impossible to do after nuking a much more powerful, nuclear-armed country.


I don't believe that Iran attacked these tankers not because I think their leaders are good people (they're obviously not), but because I know they have some sense of self-preservation. They know that the USA recently has been angling towards war with them. They know that such a war would be very bad for them. Basically, they don't have any motive to do this, and good reasons not to.

[Rothbardian Paradise]

There won't be a war. I don't even think there will be military strikes. There is virtually no public support for a war against Iran, and Iran would never declare war on America in its current economic condition. Iran's GDP is projected to contract by 9% next year.

Never underestimate Trump's desire for a perceived popularity boost.

Declaring (or attempting to declare) war on Iran would be the end of Trump's presidency. I think he has consumed the remainder of his term's political capital, and his own base wouldn't support it.