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Is the United Republic of Cyprus Possible ?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What Should Be in Cyprus ?

Turkish Greek Brotherhood Plan
7
18%
Taksim
2
5%
Annan Plan
11
29%
Enosis
18
47%
 
Total votes : 38

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Is the United Republic of Cyprus Possible ?

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:56 am

Annan Plan
The Annan Plan (named after UN Secretary General Kofi Annan) had undergone five revisions before it reached its final version. The 5th revision proposed the creation of the United Cyprus Republic, covering the island of Cyprus in its entirety except for the UK's Sovereign Base Areas. This new country was to be a federation of two constituent states – the Greek Cypriot State and the Turkish Cypriot State – joined together by a federal government apparatus.

This federal level, purported to be loosely based on the Swiss federal model, would incorporate the following elements:

A collective Presidential Council, made up of six voting members, allocated according to population (per present levels, four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots), and selected and voted in by parliament. An additional three non-voting members would be assigned 2:1.
A President and Vice President, chosen by the Presidential Council from among its members, one from each community, to alternate in their functions every 20 months during the council's five-year term of office.
A bicameral legislature:
A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
A Chamber of Deputies (lower house), with 48 members, divided in proportion to the two communities' populations (with no fewer than 12 for the smaller community).
A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.
The plan included a federal constitution, constitutions for each constituent state, a string of constitutional and federal laws, and a proposal for a United Cyprus Republic flag and a national anthem. It also provided for a Reconciliation Commission to bring the two communities closer together and resolve outstanding disputes from the past.

It would also have established a limited right to return between the territories of the two communities, and it would have allowed both Greece and Turkey to maintain a permanent military presence on the island, albeit with large, phased reductions in troop numbers.
Image

Taksim
Taksim was the objective of Turkish Cypriots who supported a partition of the island of Cyprus into Turkish and Greek portions, a concept declared as early as 1957 by Dr. Fazıl Küçük.

Enosis
Enosis is the movement of various Greek communities that live outside Greece, for incorporation of the regions they inhabit into the Greek state. Widely known is the case of the Greek-Cypriots for union of Cyprus into Greece. The idea of enosis is related to the Megali Idea, an irredentist concept of a Greek state which dominated Greek politics following the creation of the modern Greek state in 1830. The Megali Idea was a project which called for the annexation of all ethnic Greek lands, parts of which had participated in the Greek War of Independence in the 1820s but which were unsuccessful and remained under foreign rule

Turkish Greek Brotherhood Plan (In my opinion)
The Greek-Turkish common state should be established and all people must be equal british tops should be closed Turkish and Greek military zones should be established
Image
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 pm

The history of hatred there is too deep to heal, I am afraid.
Perhaps partition might work.
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Vistulange
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Postby Vistulange » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:22 pm

Possible. I mean, everything is possible.

The road going to a unified Cyprus is probably very complicated and very problematic, so I'm not even going to go there. However, I'm an advocate of the pre-1963 order of affairs, preferably with more checks and balances, preventing the 1963 amendments to the Cypriot constitution. Had the Greek junta not installed Nikos Sampson, the current state of affairs could have been avoided altogether, without a Turkish intervention in 1974.

Of course, it can be argued that Makarios wanted enosis even after independence, but the opposite can be argued as well. We can't really know for sure, but under the assumption of communal peace - which I think is feasible within a generation or two - a united Cyprus is within the realm of possibility.

Also, OP, why no "neutral Cyprus" option in the poll, representing a return to the arrangement in the immediate aftermath of independence?
Last edited by Vistulange on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:11 pm

Ideally they should ditch nationalism and come together to form their own nation, giving the middle finger to both Greece and Turkey.

But this will never happen, so I'm going with leaving things as they are.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:15 pm

Vistulange wrote:Also, OP, why no "neutral Cyprus" option in the poll, representing a return to the arrangement in the immediate aftermath of independence?

A "neutral Cyprus" would require Cyprus to leave the EU, which I don't really see coming.
The Annan-5/Swiss solution would be the most likely to produce a good outcome, I guess, as long as Turkey removes its military from the island and the policing of the Turk-inhabited areas is given to an EU police force (barring Greek-Cypriot and Greek forces from it) for let's say ten years, while a new common police force is being trained.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:22 pm

Risottia wrote:
Vistulange wrote:Also, OP, why no "neutral Cyprus" option in the poll, representing a return to the arrangement in the immediate aftermath of independence?

A "neutral Cyprus" would require Cyprus to leave the EU, which I don't really see coming.
The Annan-5/Swiss solution would be the most likely to produce a good outcome, I guess, as long as Turkey removes its military from the island and the policing of the Turk-inhabited areas is given to an EU police force (barring Greek-Cypriot and Greek forces from it) for let's say ten years, while a new common police force is being trained.

For peace assurance soldiers of the guarantor states must be on the island don't forget! the bloody christmas !
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:53 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Risottia wrote:A "neutral Cyprus" would require Cyprus to leave the EU, which I don't really see coming.
The Annan-5/Swiss solution would be the most likely to produce a good outcome, I guess, as long as Turkey removes its military from the island and the policing of the Turk-inhabited areas is given to an EU police force (barring Greek-Cypriot and Greek forces from it) for let's say ten years, while a new common police force is being trained.

For peace assurance soldiers of the guarantor states must be on the island don't forget! the bloody christmas !

The guarantor states so much amount to a wannabe annexator and an actual invader. They can go screw themselves elsewhere.
Last edited by Risottia on Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GrarG
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Postby GrarG » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 am

'Brotherhood' between the Greeks and the Turks is an impossible ideal, regardless of circumstances. I suspect the Turks have destroyed far to much of what was once Greek to ever be forgiven, and since the Turkish state still refuses to even acknowledge the genocides it committed during it's foundation it does not deserve to be forgiven. Without truth there can be no reconciliation. Cyprus will remain divided until one side overpowers and expels the other, or until an outside power comes in and occupies them both, and in that case they will likely also heavily favour one side over the other.
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Postby North German Realm » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:07 am

Any form of "United Republic" would be accepting illegal Turkish colonialism of Cyprus. Order should be restored in Northern Cyprus and reparations taken from Turkey, by force if necessary.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:57 am

GrarG wrote:'Brotherhood' between the Greeks and the Turks is an impossible ideal, regardless of circumstances. I suspect the Turks have destroyed far to much of what was once Greek to ever be forgiven, and since the Turkish state still refuses to even acknowledge the genocides it committed during it's foundation it does not deserve to be forgiven. Without truth there can be no reconciliation. Cyprus will remain divided until one side overpowers and expels the other, or until an outside power comes in and occupies them both, and in that case they will likely also heavily favour one side over the other.

What "Turkish state"? Turkey is an illegal invader of Cyprus and the Turkish Republic of Cyprus enjoys less recognition than Abkhazia. There is no Turkish state with a valid legal claim to have a say in the Cyprus peace process. There are the Turkish-speaking Cypriots and that's it - and they deserve to be represented by their elected delegates, just like the Greek-speaking Cypriots.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:18 am

I'm cautiously optimistic that resolution is possible; that a peaceful resolution with the outcome some form of federated single state is closer now than it has been for decades.

The recent European elections saw the largest opposition party in the Republic of Cyprus elect a Turkish Cypriot to the European Parliament, with thousands of Turkish Cypriots crossing the de facto border in order to vote - and the authorities on both sides facilitating the latter.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190526-cy ... ypriot-mep

That's just one indicator, of course, and counterexamples can be found without looking too hard; but there's at least some goodwill if both sides really want to try. The devil - as always - is in the details.

The Annan Plan remains the best deal on the table, but there's no reason why the two sides can't revisit it.

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:27 am

A fully united Cyprus is probably not possible as the united kingdom is not going to abandon its bases in the region. We may see a continuation of the Cyprus Question first offered by Bevan ("Have you considered whether we need a base in cyprus, or cyprus as a base?") to resolve that, with something akin to an agreement to lease the bases in perpetuity while ceding the land surrounding them and acknowledging the land under the bases is cypriot but under lease to the UK, but it's not likely until the rest of the dispute is resolved and there is demand for it.

The rest of the dispute I don't know enough about.
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Postby Baltenstein » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:51 am

Only under the preconditions that both Turkey and Greece stay out of the United Cypriot Republic's domestic affairs (this includes resource exploitation in Cypriot waters), that both the Sampson coup and the subsequent establishment of the Northern Cyprus state are officially recognized as illegitimate actions - followed by dismantling the Northern Cypriot state in a similar manner to the German Democratic Republic - that Greek and Turkish Cypriots who were expelled from their homeland in 1974 are satisfyingly compensated and that Greek-Cypriot and Turkish-Cypriot nationals can move and purchase property throughout the entire island unconditionally.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:58 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Risottia wrote:A "neutral Cyprus" would require Cyprus to leave the EU, which I don't really see coming.
The Annan-5/Swiss solution would be the most likely to produce a good outcome, I guess, as long as Turkey removes its military from the island and the policing of the Turk-inhabited areas is given to an EU police force (barring Greek-Cypriot and Greek forces from it) for let's say ten years, while a new common police force is being trained.

For peace assurance soldiers of the guarantor states must be on the island don't forget! the bloody christmas !


All Turkish and Greek military personnel has to leave the island if we are to talk about peaceful unification.
The British military base isn't really a priority issue in anyone's mind.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:25 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:For peace assurance soldiers of the guarantor states must be on the island don't forget! the bloody christmas !


All Turkish and Greek military personnel has to leave the island if we are to talk about peaceful unification.
The British military base isn't really a priority issue in anyone's mind.
But Greek gangs persecute Cypriot people [EOKA] I think that peace is only possible with the Turkish and Greek Armed Forces.I am 1.4% Cypriot :)
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:18 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
All Turkish and Greek military personnel has to leave the island if we are to talk about peaceful unification.
The British military base isn't really a priority issue in anyone's mind.
But Greek gangs persecute Cypriot people [EOKA] I think that peace is only possible with the Turkish and Greek Armed Forces.I am 1.4% Cypriot :)


The Turkish Armed Forces were responsible for instigating an ethnic cleansing in Northern Cyprus, setting up an illegal state there and filling it with settlers from Anatolia ever since.
In other words, it stopped being a guarantor power and became a hostile invader and occupier instead.

All of this automatically excludes Turkey from being able to part of a viable Cyprus unification solution.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:30 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:But Greek gangs persecute Cypriot people [EOKA] I think that peace is only possible with the Turkish and Greek Armed Forces.I am 1.4% Cypriot :)


The Turkish Armed Forces were responsible for instigating an ethnic cleansing in Northern Cyprus, setting up an illegal state there and filling it with settlers from Anatolia ever since.
In other words, it stopped being a guarantor power and became a hostile invader and occupier instead.

All of this automatically excludes Turkey from being able to part of a viable Cyprus unification solution.
I disagree with you, Turkish Cypriots being killed, Turkey could not remain silent it but unfortunately, Turkey and Greece for not taking positive steps to peace.Single state showing positive steps Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus [2004 Cypriot Annan Plan referendums]
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby First American Empire » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:51 am

We should just invade Northern Cyprus and give it to the legitimate Cypriot government. Turkey won't be able to do anything about it. If Turkey tries to declare war on Cyprus in retaliation, it'll trigger the EU's defensive pact and cause every country in the EU (except Denmark) to declare war on them, and the non-EU NATO members wouldn't help Turkey since Turkey itself wasn't attacked.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:31 am

First American Empire wrote:We should just invade Northern Cyprus and give it to the legitimate Cypriot government. Turkey won't be able to do anything about it. If Turkey tries to declare war on Cyprus in retaliation, it'll trigger the EU's defensive pact and cause every country in the EU (except Denmark) to declare war on them, and the non-EU NATO members wouldn't help Turkey since Turkey itself wasn't attacked.
Yeah, maybe he can't do it as a force but we fight our honor. Don't forget Bloody Christmas !
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Postby Baltenstein » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:57 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Baltenstein wrote:
The Turkish Armed Forces were responsible for instigating an ethnic cleansing in Northern Cyprus, setting up an illegal state there and filling it with settlers from Anatolia ever since.
In other words, it stopped being a guarantor power and became a hostile invader and occupier instead.

All of this automatically excludes Turkey from being able to part of a viable Cyprus unification solution.
I disagree with you, Turkish Cypriots being killed, Turkey could not remain silent it but unfortunately, Turkey and Greece for not taking positive steps to peace.Single state showing positive steps Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus [2004 Cypriot Annan Plan referendums]


The points I mentioned happened after 1974. Turkey and the Turkish military have made themselves a hostile aggressor and occupier and thus can no longer have any sort of "guarantor" role.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:07 am

Baltenstein wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:I disagree with you, Turkish Cypriots being killed, Turkey could not remain silent it but unfortunately, Turkey and Greece for not taking positive steps to peace.Single state showing positive steps Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus [2004 Cypriot Annan Plan referendums]


The points I mentioned happened after 1974. Turkey and the Turkish military have made themselves a hostile aggressor and occupier and thus can no longer have any sort of "guarantor" role.
The Turkish army did not come for the occupation but for peace,Those who were in favor of unification were always Turks [2004 Cyprus Annan Plan referendums]
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Postby Neko-koku » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:09 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Annan Plan
The Annan Plan (named after UN Secretary General Kofi Annan) had undergone five revisions before it reached its final version. The 5th revision proposed the creation of the United Cyprus Republic, covering the island of Cyprus in its entirety except for the UK's Sovereign Base Areas. This new country was to be a federation of two constituent states – the Greek Cypriot State and the Turkish Cypriot State – joined together by a federal government apparatus.

This federal level, purported to be loosely based on the Swiss federal model, would incorporate the following elements:

A collective Presidential Council, made up of six voting members, allocated according to population (per present levels, four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots), and selected and voted in by parliament. An additional three non-voting members would be assigned 2:1.
A President and Vice President, chosen by the Presidential Council from among its members, one from each community, to alternate in their functions every 20 months during the council's five-year term of office.
A bicameral legislature:
A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
A Chamber of Deputies (lower house), with 48 members, divided in proportion to the two communities' populations (with no fewer than 12 for the smaller community).
A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.
The plan included a federal constitution, constitutions for each constituent state, a string of constitutional and federal laws, and a proposal for a United Cyprus Republic flag and a national anthem. It also provided for a Reconciliation Commission to bring the two communities closer together and resolve outstanding disputes from the past.

It would also have established a limited right to return between the territories of the two communities, and it would have allowed both Greece and Turkey to maintain a permanent military presence on the island, albeit with large, phased reductions in troop numbers.

Taksim
Taksim was the objective of Turkish Cypriots who supported a partition of the island of Cyprus into Turkish and Greek portions, a concept declared as early as 1957 by Dr. Fazıl Küçük.

Enosis
Enosis is the movement of various Greek communities that live outside Greece, for incorporation of the regions they inhabit into the Greek state. Widely known is the case of the Greek-Cypriots for union of Cyprus into Greece. The idea of enosis is related to the Megali Idea, an irredentist concept of a Greek state which dominated Greek politics following the creation of the modern Greek state in 1830. The Megali Idea was a project which called for the annexation of all ethnic Greek lands, parts of which had participated in the Greek War of Independence in the 1820s but which were unsuccessful and remained under foreign rule

Turkish Greek Brotherhood Plan (In my opinion)
The Greek-Turkish common state should be established and all people must be equal british tops should be closed Turkish and Greek military zones should be established


We don't need it. Thanks. Just recognize Northern Cyprus and make the 1974 border permanent.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:27 am

Neko-koku wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:Annan Plan
The Annan Plan (named after UN Secretary General Kofi Annan) had undergone five revisions before it reached its final version. The 5th revision proposed the creation of the United Cyprus Republic, covering the island of Cyprus in its entirety except for the UK's Sovereign Base Areas. This new country was to be a federation of two constituent states – the Greek Cypriot State and the Turkish Cypriot State – joined together by a federal government apparatus.

This federal level, purported to be loosely based on the Swiss federal model, would incorporate the following elements:

A collective Presidential Council, made up of six voting members, allocated according to population (per present levels, four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots), and selected and voted in by parliament. An additional three non-voting members would be assigned 2:1.
A President and Vice President, chosen by the Presidential Council from among its members, one from each community, to alternate in their functions every 20 months during the council's five-year term of office.
A bicameral legislature:
A Senate (upper house), with 48 members, divided 24:24 between the two communities.
A Chamber of Deputies (lower house), with 48 members, divided in proportion to the two communities' populations (with no fewer than 12 for the smaller community).
A Supreme Court composed of equal numbers of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot judges, plus three foreign judges; to be appointed by the Presidential Council.
The plan included a federal constitution, constitutions for each constituent state, a string of constitutional and federal laws, and a proposal for a United Cyprus Republic flag and a national anthem. It also provided for a Reconciliation Commission to bring the two communities closer together and resolve outstanding disputes from the past.

It would also have established a limited right to return between the territories of the two communities, and it would have allowed both Greece and Turkey to maintain a permanent military presence on the island, albeit with large, phased reductions in troop numbers.

Taksim
Taksim was the objective of Turkish Cypriots who supported a partition of the island of Cyprus into Turkish and Greek portions, a concept declared as early as 1957 by Dr. Fazıl Küçük.

Enosis
Enosis is the movement of various Greek communities that live outside Greece, for incorporation of the regions they inhabit into the Greek state. Widely known is the case of the Greek-Cypriots for union of Cyprus into Greece. The idea of enosis is related to the Megali Idea, an irredentist concept of a Greek state which dominated Greek politics following the creation of the modern Greek state in 1830. The Megali Idea was a project which called for the annexation of all ethnic Greek lands, parts of which had participated in the Greek War of Independence in the 1820s but which were unsuccessful and remained under foreign rule

Turkish Greek Brotherhood Plan (In my opinion)
The Greek-Turkish common state should be established and all people must be equal british tops should be closed Turkish and Greek military zones should be established


We don't need it. Thanks. Just recognize Northern Cyprus and make the 1974 border permanent.
So let the blood and pain continue ?
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Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:31 am

It will never happen while the Turks still have a stranglehold on half of Cyprus. Turkey needs to be dismantled.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:33 am

Nova Cyberia wrote:It will never happen while the Turks still have a stranglehold on half of Cyprus. Turkey needs to be dismantled.
I don't find it right to destroy a nation. racism and fascism that must be destroyed.
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