NationStates

The New California Republic wrote:

The American Free States wrote:Well really the best option here was to have the UK give Hong Kong to the real China, Taiwan.

That likely would have prompted the PRC to invade both.

Yeah I guess you’re right about that, which would then have led to NATO getting involved, and basically WW3.

Tuthina wrote:

The American Free States wrote:Well really the best option here was to have the UK give Hong Kong to the real China, Taiwan.

Personally, I feel that some kind of (con)federation solution would be for the best (and might actually be attractive enough for ROC), although that would require a PRC that was/is more open to the idea of not being in control of everything it could, so I guess it was never meant to be.

Unfortunately.

I take a centrist Position on this issue. I don't like the idealist that thought that British imperialist cared the most for the citizens, nor am I a complete supporter of china. Though, The Chinese state is right in smashing those that act like ANTIFA.

Communal concils wrote:I take a centrist Position on this issue. I don't like the idealist that thought that British imperialist cared the most for the citizens, nor am I a complete supporter of china. Though, The Chinese state is right in smashing those that act like ANTIFA.

Bike-locking the police probably won't do much anyway.

Tuthina wrote:

Communal concils wrote:I take a centrist Position on this issue. I don't like the idealist that thought that British imperialist cared the most for the citizens, nor am I a complete supporter of china. Though, The Chinese state is right in smashing those that act like ANTIFA.

Bike-locking the police probably won't do much anyway.

That's interesting. Though, I really want both sides to just sake hands.

Communal concils wrote:

Tuthina wrote:Bike-locking the police probably won't do much anyway.

That's interesting. Though, I really want both sides to just sake hands.

No one should shake hands with Xi Jingping until he agrees to make China democratic.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

That's interesting. Though, I really want both sides to just sake hands.

No one should shake hands with Xi Jingping until he agrees to make China democratic.

So, I'm assuming that you want a hybrid between the Yugoslav wars and India.

The Last time china collapse, it become a land of warlords killing each other. That was how PRC gained power.

Libertarians don't understand Geo-Politics.

Communal concils wrote:I take a centrist Position on this issue. I don't like the idealist that thought that British imperialist cared the most for the citizens, nor am I a complete supporter of china. Though, The Chinese state is right in smashing those that act like ANTIFA.

Okay, but what if the police themselves are the ones who pushed the protestors to violence? Any person should be well-informed of the abuse the Chinese have been performing on the Tibetans, Uyghurs and now the Hong Kongers.

So, by what you’re saying, the police should also be shut down because of their overzealous and violent reactions to the protests in Hong Kong?

Grenartia wrote:

SD_Film Artists wrote:
Is this an inner city joke that I'm too rural England to understand?

There's a reason ACAB exists as a term.

Yes, because 'a significant minority of police officers abuse their power and it's generally a good thing to support independent scrutiny of law enforcement, trust us this guy was horrid' isn't quite as catchy.

Here comes the policeman,the big friendly policeman,P.C McGarry No.452.
Lost a key,cat up a tree,baby lost a shoe ?
Then get a policeman,a big friendly policeman,P.C McGarry No.452.

Here comes the policeman,the big friendly policeman,P.C Mcgarry No.452.
Workmen seen on the Green,what are they going to do ?
They'll tell the policeman,the big friendly policeman,P.C McGarry No.452

Is this some Brit reference I'm too stereotypically American to get?

It's from the official soundtrack of Trump Town: Camberwick Code Green, a hard-hitting documentary about a Detroit police unit facing the changes made by the Trump administration while caught in the middle of a gang war between the Windy Millerz and the Fire Men.

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:

Communal concils wrote:I take a centrist Position on this issue. I don't like the idealist that thought that British imperialist cared the most for the citizens, nor am I a complete supporter of china. Though, The Chinese state is right in smashing those that act like ANTIFA.

Okay, but what if the police themselves are the ones who pushed the protestors to violence? Any person should be well-informed of the abuse the Chinese have been performing on the Tibetans, Uyghurs and now the Hong Kongers.

So, by what you’re saying, the police should also be shut down because of their overzealous and violent reactions to the protests in Hong Kong?

Separatism is a bad thing for the world. Their are lot's of examples in which authoritarian regimes collapse into a Geo-political mess.

The Police are only doing their job, I will say the same thing for western Countries. As a Result, I am not a hypocrite. "Crimes" are what ever the state decides, and Violence is a normal thing.

Communal concils wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:No one should shake hands with Xi Jingping until he agrees to make China democratic.

So, I'm assuming that you want a hybrid between the Yugoslav wars and India.

The Last time china collapse, it become a land of warlords killing each other. That was how PRC gained power.

Libertarians don't understand Geo-Politics.

When did I say I wanted China to collapse? All I said was I wanted China to be democratic? Are you telling me that you don't think China can manage to make democracy work without collapsing?

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

So, I'm assuming that you want a hybrid between the Yugoslav wars and India.

The Last time china collapse, it become a land of warlords killing each other. That was how PRC gained power.

Libertarians don't understand Geo-Politics.

When did I say I wanted China to collapse? All I said was I wanted China to be democratic? Are you telling me that you don't think China can manage to make democracy work without collapsing?

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Communal concils wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:When did I say I wanted China to collapse? All I said was I wanted China to be democratic? Are you telling me that you don't think China can manage to make democracy work without collapsing?

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

When I mean democracy, I mean the pathetic Bourgeoisie regime we call democracy.

I see Western "Democracy" as a power vacuum of competing groups, so it sucks in my point of view.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

"Bigoted", that word has been misused so many times .

Great Kysilia wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

Well, it's more of a cultural thing. The Chinese don't exactly have the long history of democracy and the peaceful exchange of power that we do in many Western countries. Similarly to the Russians, they just don't believe that they need a Western-style democracy.

Thank you. Just like any other anti-realist in Politics, this guy believes that one frame work for a society has universal applications. With a world with so many diverse groups, I find such beliefs laughable.

Great Kysilia wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

Well, it's more of a cultural thing. The Chinese don't exactly have the long history of democracy and the peaceful exchange of power that we do in many Western countries. Similarly to the Russians, they just don't believe that they need a Western-style democracy.

Unless "Chinese" in that context extends to include Hongkongers, though, I'm not sure if that's very relevant to the topic at hand.

Great Kysilia wrote:

Tuthina wrote:Unless "Chinese" in that context extends to include Hongkongers, though, I'm not sure if that's very relevant to the topic at hand.

Surprisingly enough, Hong Kong is still a part of China so it is relevant.

Only if you prescribe to the idea that the only way Hong Kong can have democracy is for the rest of China to have democracy as well, though, which I'm not sure is valid.

Great Kysilia wrote:

Tuthina wrote:Only if you prescribe to the idea that the only way Hong Kong can have democracy is for the rest of China to have democracy as well, though, which I'm not sure is valid.

I don't subscribe to that idea at all. Hong Kong is culturally different from the rest of China so democracy can work there.

Well, glad to hear that we're on the same page as far as the latter part goes.

Communal concils wrote:

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Okay, but what if the police themselves are the ones who pushed the protestors to violence? Any person should be well-informed of the abuse the Chinese have been performing on the Tibetans, Uyghurs and now the Hong Kongers.

So, by what you’re saying, the police should also be shut down because of their overzealous and violent reactions to the protests in Hong Kong?

Separatism is a bad thing for the world. Their are lot's of examples in which authoritarian regimes collapse into a Geo-political mess.

The Police are only doing their job, I will say the same thing for western Countries. As a Result, I am not a hypocrite. "Crimes" are what ever the state decides, and Violence is a normal thing.

Good god, how many times are people going to use "The Police are only doing their job" to excuse brutality?

Communal concils wrote:

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Well that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, bigoted against Chinese people, to suggest that they can't make democracy work but the west can.

When I mean democracy, I mean the pathetic Bourgeoisie regime we call democracy.

I see Western "Democracy" as a power vacuum of competing groups, so it sucks in my point of view.

Different people have different interests, so any government thst represents the people will probably feature competing interests. If a government has no competing interests, it's probabky because some rather large group of people aren't having their interests represented at all.

If you don't like western democracy, what democracy do you like?

Necroghastia wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

Separatism is a bad thing for the world. Their are lot's of examples in which authoritarian regimes collapse into a Geo-political mess.

The Police are only doing their job, I will say the same thing for western Countries. As a Result, I am not a hypocrite. "Crimes" are what ever the state decides, and Violence is a normal thing.

Good god, how many times are people going to use "The Police are only doing their job" to excuse brutality?

Until they are on the receiving end of said brutality, judging from Hong Kong's experience.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:

Communal concils wrote:



When I mean democracy, I mean the pathetic Bourgeoisie regime we call democracy.

I see Western "Democracy" as a power vacuum of competing groups, so it sucks in my point of view.

Different people have different interests, so any government thst represents the people will probably feature competing interests. If a government has no competing interests, it's probabky because some rather large group of people aren't having their interests represented at all.

If you don't like western democracy, what democracy do you like?

1. It is possible for a majority of the population to like the Government. I believe that competing groups can be abolish by a mixer of policies that appeal to as much of the population as possible.

2. The Democracy That I want to create is one in which the people constantly vote in one party. a unofficial one party state. Their should be opposition, there should be moderate levels of dissent, but Democracy can only function under unity. therefor, a Pragmatic party must be created. It must be Populistic, and it must be extremely Pluralistic

Necroghastia wrote:

Communal concils wrote:

Separatism is a bad thing for the world. Their are lot's of examples in which authoritarian regimes collapse into a Geo-political mess.

The Police are only doing their job, I will say the same thing for western Countries. As a Result, I am not a hypocrite. "Crimes" are what ever the state decides, and Violence is a normal thing.

Good god, how many times are people going to use "The Police are only doing their job" to excuse brutality?

This seems like a weak counter argument. What I care most about is Order, and history has shown that mass uprisings can lead to civil war and unnecessary bloodshed. I dislike many policies of the PRC, but I find it even worse to encourage a destruction of a country with a billion people.

The American Free States wrote:Well really the best option here was to have the UK give Hong Kong to the real China, Taiwan.

And this is what he said on
His way to armageddon:

So long, mom,
I'm off to drop the bomb,
So don't wait up for me.
But though I may roam,
I'll come back to my home,
Although it may be
A pile of debris.

Remember, mommy,
I'm off to get a commie,
So send me a salami,
And try to smile somehow.
I'll look for you when the war is over,
An hour and a half from now!

Communal concils wrote:

Necroghastia wrote:Good god, how many times are people going to use "The Police are only doing their job" to excuse brutality?

This seems like a weak counter argument. What I care most about is Order, and history has shown that mass uprisings can lead to civil war and unnecessary bloodshed. I dislike many policies of the PRC, but I find it even worse to encourage a destruction of a country with a billion people.

To use an old idea of mine, since Xeno’s back: Order is of no inherent value.