Hong Kong

[Ethel mermania]

Do you think the PRC is going to allow this without a fight?

No, but China isn’t going to go to complete war. Basically all of China’s neighbors except NoKo and Vietnam hate them, not to mention rebellion within China itself, in the autonomous territories (hell, even Manchurian independence has made a resurgence this year, that should say something). If China goes to war with the UK, it’s going to be a complete Asian collapse, and dare I say, World War III

So you are hypothesizing that if HK declared independence, and called in the UK or UN to protect them and either attempted it, that it wouldnt cause an all out war in south eastern china?

[Bombadil]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

[Infected Mushroom]

No, but China isn’t going to go to complete war. Basically all of China’s neighbors except NoKo and Vietnam hate them, not to mention rebellion within China itself, in the autonomous territories (hell, even Manchurian independence has made a resurgence this year, that should say something). If China goes to war with the UK, it’s going to be a complete Asian collapse, and dare I say, World War III

So you are hypothesizing that if HK declared independence, and called in the UK or UN to protect them and either attempted it, that it wouldnt cause an all out war in south eastern china?

The US and UK wouldn’t get involved because their politicians need the benefits from cheap Chinese goods, trade and labour to maintain domestic political promises (while at the same time playing just ENOUGH of a song and dance in favor of human rights)

[Infected Mushroom]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Kudos to the hk police for handling this with restraint

[Ethel mermania]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

[Bombadil]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

Well that was the dream, prior to the handover of HK it was expected that China would open up and become freer. That was true for a while as China looked to gain entry into WTO and win the Olympics and made all sorts of promises. China in 2003 was a relatively free space. Yet as they say here 'you can never trust the communists'.

On gaining that WTO status and winning the Olympics China has instead tightened its grip and clamped down on free speech. Just the other day they started censoring songs on music services for anything they didn't like.

The CAC also accused audio platforms of hosting audio books that promote “historical nihilism” and superstition, such as those featuring “celestial beings and spirits” and zombies. It also criticized the platforms for giving underage users unlimited access to such content.

Ultimately China is moving to only allowing in China that which is produced in China. The word they use is 'harmony', which really means censorship of any content that doesn't accord with being a good little follower of the party line. Someone did a neat little children's song about the fun and free Grass Mud Horse defeating nasty River Crabs where Cao Di Ma (grass mud horse) phonetically also means fuck your mum, and He Xie, river crab, phonetically means harmony - it escaped the censors for a short while but you can find it on Youtube.

China was supposed to become more like HK yet alas it very much seems the other way round where China is simply getting much worse.

[EastKekistan]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

The problem is that there is an illegal entity where Republic of China is supposed to be located, namely the so-called PRC.

[The Great Swedish Empire]

I think that storming and vandalizing the legislative building was a mistake. Clearly the government wanted this. Why else would the police give up after minimal effort? The protesters are playing right into their hands.

[EastKekistan]

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

Well that was the dream, prior to the handover of HK it was expected that China would open up and become freer. That was true for a while as China looked to gain entry into WTO and win the Olympics and made all sorts of promises. China in 2003 was a relatively free space. Yet as they say here 'you can never trust the communists'.

On gaining that WTO status and winning the Olympics China has instead tightened its grip and clamped down on free speech. Just the other day they started censoring songs on music services for anything they didn't like.

The CAC also accused audio platforms of hosting audio books that promote “historical nihilism” and superstition, such as those featuring “celestial beings and spirits” and zombies. It also criticized the platforms for giving underage users unlimited access to such content.

Ultimately China is moving to only allowing in China that which is produced in China. The word they use is 'harmony', which really means censorship of any content that doesn't accord with being a good little follower of the party line. Someone did a neat little children's song about the fun and free Grass Mud Horse defeating nasty River Crabs where Cao Di Ma (grass mud horse) phonetically also means fuck your mum, and He Xie, river crab, phonetically means harmony - it escaped the censors for a short while but you can find it on Youtube.

China was supposed to become more like HK yet alas it very much seems the other way round where China is simply getting much worse.

Yeah. I was in college in China when Hu Jintao was in control. Basically Jiang Zemin > Hu Jintao >> Xi Jinping.

P.S. It is Cao Ni Ma, not Cao Di Ma.

[Infected Mushroom]

I think that storming and vandalizing the legislative building was a mistake. Clearly the government wanted this. Why else would the police give up after minimal effort? The protesters are playing right into their hands.

The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Sometimes vandalism of Government property is justified.

I think that storming and vandalizing the legislative building was a mistake. Clearly the government wanted this. Why else would the police give up after minimal effort? The protesters are playing right into their hands.

The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

Makes sense. You'd probably have violently suppressed them even if they remained peaceful.

[Infected Mushroom]

Images from yesterday, quite amazing they actually broke into the legislature though I'm not too sure it sits well with me, I'd prefer it was peaceful.

Sometimes vandalism of Government property is justified.

The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

Makes sense. You'd probably have violently suppressed them even if they remained peaceful.

Storming government buildings and destroying them is essentially treason

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Sometimes vandalism of Government property is justified.
Makes sense. You'd probably have violently suppressed them even if they remained peaceful.

Storming government buildings and destroying them is essentially treason

You must not know what treason means.

[The Great Swedish Empire]

Sometimes vandalism of Government property is justified.
Makes sense. You'd probably have violently suppressed them even if they remained peaceful.

Storming government buildings and destroying them is essentially treason

Maybe not treason but highly illegal.

[Bombadil]

Well that was the dream, prior to the handover of HK it was expected that China would open up and become freer. That was true for a while as China looked to gain entry into WTO and win the Olympics and made all sorts of promises. China in 2003 was a relatively free space. Yet as they say here 'you can never trust the communists'.

On gaining that WTO status and winning the Olympics China has instead tightened its grip and clamped down on free speech. Just the other day they started censoring songs on music services for anything they didn't like.

The CAC also accused audio platforms of hosting audio books that promote “historical nihilism” and superstition, such as those featuring “celestial beings and spirits” and zombies. It also criticized the platforms for giving underage users unlimited access to such content.

Ultimately China is moving to only allowing in China that which is produced in China. The word they use is 'harmony', which really means censorship of any content that doesn't accord with being a good little follower of the party line. Someone did a neat little children's song about the fun and free Grass Mud Horse defeating nasty River Crabs where Cao Di Ma (grass mud horse) phonetically also means fuck your mum, and He Xie, river crab, phonetically means harmony - it escaped the censors for a short while but you can find it on Youtube.

China was supposed to become more like HK yet alas it very much seems the other way round where China is simply getting much worse.

Yeah. I was in college in China when Hu Jintao was in control. Basically Jiang Zemin > Hu Jintao >> Xi Jinping.

P.S. It is Cao Ni Ma, not Cao Di Ma.

Hmm.. you're right, I always thought it was 地, in Beijing when people swear it really sounds to me like cao di ma, and I never checked the actual character.

[Infected Mushroom]

Storming government buildings and destroying them is essentially treason

Maybe not treason but highly illegal.

If the police had opened fire at that point after a fair warning I would have understood

Because they’re attempting to destroy government buildings

It’s not acceptable

[New haven america]

Maybe not treason but highly illegal.

If the police had opened fire at that point after a fair warning I would have understood

Because they’re attempting to destroy government buildings

It’s not acceptable

If the government's acting like a tyrannical overlord who's trying to take away your rights and freedoms, sure it is.

At that point the government's the bad guy.

[Pasong Tirad]

I think that storming and vandalizing the legislative building was a mistake. Clearly the government wanted this. Why else would the police give up after minimal effort? The protesters are playing right into their hands.

The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

Just say you'd love to gun down civilians and be done with it.

[The Great Swedish Empire]

Maybe not treason but highly illegal.

If the police had opened fire at that point after a fair warning I would have understood

Because they’re attempting to destroy government buildings

It’s not acceptable

I will accept firing only if the police thought all their lives were in serious danger but violence after the breach was fairly low level on both sides. The police here were highly disciplined and coordinated unlike other events.

[New haven america]

The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

Just say you'd love to gun down civilians and be done with it.

He already did...

[Loben The 2nd]

I wouldn’t really call the Indian wars genocide tbh.

That says a lot more about you than it does about the Indian wars.

Kinda in the name.

“Wars”

If the decedents of the defeated would like to complain to The Hague or an equally useless international body, they can gladly go ahead.

[New haven america]

That says a lot more about you than it does about the Indian wars.

Kinda in the name.

“Wars”

If the decedents of the defeated would like to complain to The Hague or an equally useless international body, they can gladly go ahead.

Yes, as if wars can't be used as an excuse for genocide.

[Infected Mushroom]

If the police had opened fire at that point after a fair warning I would have understood

Because they’re attempting to destroy government buildings

It’s not acceptable

If the government's acting like a tyrannical overlord who's trying to take away your rights and freedoms, sure it is.

At that point the government's the bad guy.

Not when you attack government buildings

[Ethel mermania]

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

Well that was the dream, prior to the handover of HK it was expected that China would open up and become freer. That was true for a while as China looked to gain entry into WTO and win the Olympics and made all sorts of promises. China in 2003 was a relatively free space. Yet as they say here 'you can never trust the communists'.

On gaining that WTO status and winning the Olympics China has instead tightened its grip and clamped down on free speech. Just the other day they started censoring songs on music services for anything they didn't like.

The CAC also accused audio platforms of hosting audio books that promote “historical nihilism” and superstition, such as those featuring “celestial beings and spirits” and zombies. It also criticized the platforms for giving underage users unlimited access to such content.

Ultimately China is moving to only allowing in China that which is produced in China. The word they use is 'harmony', which really means censorship of any content that doesn't accord with being a good little follower of the party line. Someone did a neat little children's song about the fun and free Grass Mud Horse defeating nasty River Crabs where Cao Di Ma (grass mud horse) phonetically also means fuck your mum, and He Xie, river crab, phonetically means harmony - it escaped the censors for a short while but you can find it on Youtube.

China was supposed to become more like HK yet alas it very much seems the other way round where China is simply getting much worse.

Full disclosure. I was in hong kong for a 6 week work assignment during which the last day that folks were suppose to be able to get a british passport.


The western expectation, which I shared at the time, was that HK would get pulled more into the chinese orbit, and things would tighten, but the prc would liberalize as their own educated middle class grew and with it, consumer demand and consumer choice became normal, and somewhere near the middle would both political systems meet.

We were very wrong.

Edit: to expand.

[Cappuccina]

Please Understand, I wish both hong kong and Taiwan were happy free nations perfectly allowed to go on their own independent way with friendly relations with the PRC based on their shared cultural heritage. I just dont see either happening without a fairly large war occuring, that end of the day, will be won by the PRC.

The problem is that there is an illegal entity where Republic of China is supposed to be located, namely the so-called PRC.

What makes the PRC "illegal"?