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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:37 am
by Bombadil
Relikai wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
I'll have to check I suppose but I think they have one official national language as Mandarin, and then within specific provinces, such as Tibet and Xinjiang they have two official languages.. and we all know how that's panning out.

But I'll have to double check.


Please do.

There is a difference too. I speak 2 official languages of Singapore, but I DO NOT speak the national language fluently even though it is used in the military and the National Language.

So yes there is a difference.


Ok, so the specific law mentions one language, Putonghua, as the standard language of China.

Article 1 This Law is enacted in accordance with the Constitution for the purpose of promoting the normalization and standardization of the standard spoken and written Chinese language and its sound development, making it play a better role in public activities, and promoting economic and cultural exchange among all the Chinese nationalities and regions.

Article 2 For purposes of this Law, the standard spoken and written Chinese language means Putonghua (a common speech with pronunciation based on the Beijing dialect) and the standardized Chinese characters.


It does allow provision for unspecified languages..

Article 8 All the nationalities shall have the freedom to use and develop their own spoken and written languages.

The spoken and written languages of the ethnic peoples shall be used in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Constitution, the Law on Regional National Autonomy and other laws.


Link

9 regions made special laws within their region but most were related to implementing Mandarin given the specifics of their native language.

The Tibetan Autonomous Region, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, Yunnan Province, Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, Shanghai, Fujian Province, Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, and Guangdong Province were selected to introduce their language regulations and provisions because all these places display different features of language, and thus require special objectives and tasks in the management of the life language and different focal points of work..

..I will take Shanghai, Fujian Province, and Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region as examples to illustrate the point. Promoting Putonghua and implementing standard written characters has been the main focus of Shanghai language regulation to improve Shanghai citizens’ proficiency in the use of national standard spoken and written language to provide better language services to people coming from all over the country. In Fujian Province, promoting Putonghua and implementing standard written characters has also been the focal task to facilitate exchanges, foster national identity, safeguard the unity of national sovereignty, and promote economic and social progress.


Link

4 regions nominated other languages for inclusion in their region, being:

HK (English and Cantonese), Macau (Portugese and Mandarin), Xinjiang (Uygher and Mandarin) and Tibet (Tibetan and Mandarin).

However both Tibet and Xinjiang have strong policies to remove those languages.

In schools, Mandarin is completely replacing major minority languages as a language of instruction: Tibetan language education beyond primary school is to be phased out of all Tibetan areas except Qinghai province by 2015; in Xinjiang, the phase-out of Uyghur began in 2002 and has reached from the university level down through the primary schools. “Bilingual” education has in these areas been replaced by Mandarin-only education.

Mandarin is far more than a means of imparting facts; it is also a primary means of socialization of minority and non-Mandarin Han students. But the socialization into Beijing-sanctioned Mandarin Han culture in minority areas alone was apparently not seen as sufficient, so in the mid-1980s, Beijing began transferring minority pupils to schools in Han-dominated China under the “neidi ban” or inland classes policy. It is likely that at least a quarter of a million Tibetans and Uyghurs have been transferred: Fully a third of secondary school graduates from the Tibetan autonomous region were transferred, and by 2001, more than 23,000 Tibetan primary school graduates had been transferred. The Xinjiang Ministry of Education also noted this year that “qualified high school graduates” are sent to inland China for four years in so-called “Xinjiang classes” to “always carry out educational work. . . love the socialist motherland [and] safeguard national unity.”

These Tibetan and Uyghur pupils are being socialized into Han culture during a critical developmental period. The uprooting of children from their families, languages and cultures in service of the national project is reminiscent of the residential boarding schools that the United States and Canada subjected First Nations peoples to. Little wonder that Tibetans and Uyghurs consider these policies to be at best linguicide.


Link

Even in HK, Chinese in primary schools is taught in Mandarin, get 'em young.

In Guangzhou they even had protests in 2010 when they announced they would be stopping all Cantonese television broadcasts, they halted but then quietly went about it anyway in 2014 taking advantage of negative sentiment around the Umbrella protests.

Anyway, I think language does play a strong part in where HK feels it retains a unique identity it's unwilling to let go of.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:02 am
by Relikai
For teaching students mandarin since young in school, To be honest that's no difference from having a main language as shown in every national education system. I'm sure you know that to facilitate the learning of a common language, the human brain adapts to learning them better at a young age.

I see no problem in the teaching of a common language in schools, as they are fundamentals of building not only a social identity but to ensure that people from all over China can communicate across the country.

As much as there is the bias against the PRC, it is simply doing what most other countries do. Segregation and inequality occurs due to differences within a population, but a common language serves far to suppress that effect.

But removing dialect media? Yeah it sucks.

They can do what they'd like as a government but yeah it sucks, given how they have more than the capability to broadcast casual shows in dialect.

However dialects need not be learnt in schools or formal education. As much as possible, speak dialect at home, among friends in each regional enclave, use it as a casual language.

If I were to rely on purely formal education, I'd only know 2 of the 5 relevant ones today.

Don't let go of that education. Keep it spreading outside the schools. Use them even within to keep it alive while learning the trade language of China.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:33 am
by Ethel mermania
Relikai wrote:We've already moved onto another topic which warrants that response, so the reply is essentially out of point.

However yes, a common language is the main source of communal unity. Every sovereign country would do so having a single common language for trade and social communication.

It is worrying for dialect speakers being able to speak Mandarin, Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese myself, but uch acts are understandable throughout the course of history, and is not unjustified no matter how much you don't like it.

That said the dialects are not taught here either, it communicated in a common enough basis at home and among family to be ingrained among our tongue. Sympathizing with the dialects, a way to maintain these tongues would be through means other than the state. Simply crying about China here and there won't maintain your traditions, like crying about English here won't reach our kids the different dialects.


Canada, belgium and india would like to have a word.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:37 am
by The New California Republic
Infected Mushroom wrote:I think Hong Kong/China has much to learn from Singapore in terms of protest management and law and order.

I think if this illegal protest had instead occurred in Singapore, it would never have gotten this far.

As such, maybe China/Hk should also adopt the Singaporean approach to justice and law and order.

Protests being illegal in and of itself means the demonstrators are right to be concerned about the current state of affairs.

And Singapore doesn't use tanks to maim and kill demonstrators, so I doubt you'd like it.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:12 am
by Rojava Free State
Infected Mushroom wrote:I think Hong Kong/China has much to learn from Singapore in terms of protest management and law and order.

I think if this illegal protest had instead occurred in Singapore, it would never have gotten this far.

As such, maybe China/Hk should also adopt the Singaporean approach to justice and law and order.


These protesters could literally throw roses at the police and I'm sure IM would find a reason to tell the cops to open fire. Illegal protest my ass, it's good some people in China are finally done being total cucks to the government and are standing up for themselves

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:24 am
by Infected Mushroom
I just taught a lesson this afternoon at the center wearing a China-imported Batman cloth mask (with cape). Visibility was impaired though because of the slits.

I literally said: “hey! Hey! HEY! listen to the Batman!!!”

This is in accordance with our center’s Halloween policy. Can’t believe I have to do it for two weeks though.

...

How does this relate to the thread?

Well given the protests and the fact that it’s become illegal to wear the mask on the streets I can only put it on at the center.

Also, I’d imagine it would look bad if during a random police search they found me with the Batman mask and cape in the bag.

“Hey err listen... these are for the CLASSES!”

Police: “... uh huh”

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:44 am
by Ifreann
Infected Mushroom wrote:I just taught a lesson this afternoon at the center wearing a China-imported Batman cloth mask (with cape). Visibility was impaired though because of the slits.

I literally said: “hey! Hey! HEY! listen to the Batman!!!”

This is in accordance with our center’s Halloween policy. Can’t believe I have to do it for two weeks though.

...

How does this relate to the thread?

Well given the protests and the fact that it’s become illegal to wear the mask on the streets I can only put it on at the center.

Also, I’d imagine it would look bad if during a random police search they found me with the Batman mask and cape in the bag.

“Hey err listen... these are for the CLASSES!”

Police: “... uh huh”

And then the police might beat the shit out of you, believing you to be a protester.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:09 am
by The New California Republic
Infected Mushroom wrote:I just taught a lesson this afternoon at the center wearing a China-imported Batman cloth mask (with cape). Visibility was impaired though because of the slits.

I literally said: “hey! Hey! HEY! listen to the Batman!!!”

This is in accordance with our center’s Halloween policy. Can’t believe I have to do it for two weeks though.

...

How does this relate to the thread?

Well given the protests and the fact that it’s become illegal to wear the mask on the streets I can only put it on at the center.

Also, I’d imagine it would look bad if during a random police search they found me with the Batman mask and cape in the bag.

“Hey err listen... these are for the CLASSES!”

Police: “... uh huh”

And they'd likely beat the shit out of you and/or arrest you for that. So what is this scenario meant to prove, other than HK being draconian as fuck?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:24 am
by Ethel mermania
Well it seems the NBA changed their tune. and again shows how the PRC lies.

.....That front of this Orwellian war began when Daryl Morey, GM of the Houston Rockets, tweeted fairly benign support for the protests. The Rockets are quite popular in China, as is the NBA, and China took an opportunity to ape extreme offense at Morey's tweet. This, despite the fact that Twitter is effectively banned and blocked on the Chinese mainland. Despite that fact, the NBA first made unfortunate noises in apologizing to the Chinese government, before Commissioner Adam Silver eventually walked that back after a public backlash. Silver instead came out in support of players and team officials speaking their minds and attempted to retrieve the NBA's one-time position as one of the most progressive and "woke" professional sports leagues in America.

It seems that Beijing really wasn't playing around, however, as Silver revealed in a recent interview that China actually asked him to fire Morey......





https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20191 ... orey.shtml

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:25 am
by Infected Mushroom
Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I just taught a lesson this afternoon at the center wearing a China-imported Batman cloth mask (with cape). Visibility was impaired though because of the slits.

I literally said: “hey! Hey! HEY! listen to the Batman!!!”

This is in accordance with our center’s Halloween policy. Can’t believe I have to do it for two weeks though.

...

How does this relate to the thread?

Well given the protests and the fact that it’s become illegal to wear the mask on the streets I can only put it on at the center.

Also, I’d imagine it would look bad if during a random police search they found me with the Batman mask and cape in the bag.

“Hey err listen... these are for the CLASSES!”

Police: “... uh huh”

And then the police might beat the shit out of you, believing you to be a protester.


I think I'm safe because I have my teacher identification card with me. I would just get them to call it worse case.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:27 am
by The New California Republic
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And then the police might beat the shit out of you, believing you to be a protester.


I think I'm safe because I have my teacher identification card with me. I would just get them to call it worse case.

You'd get them to do what? That doesn't even make sense.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:32 am
by Ifreann
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:And then the police might beat the shit out of you, believing you to be a protester.


I think I'm safe because I have my teacher identification card with me. I would just get them to call it worse case.

What makes you think they'll listen to your excuses and explanations? Far as they're concerned, you're one of the protesters, their enemy.


The New California Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I think I'm safe because I have my teacher identification card with me. I would just get them to call it worse case.

You'd get them to do what? That doesn't even make sense.

I think he's trying to say that he'd have the cops call the school he works at, and have them confirm that he just has the mask for Halloween shenanigans at school.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:35 am
by Relikai
Ethel mermania wrote:Well it seems the NBA changed their tune. and again shows how the PRC lies.

.....That front of this Orwellian war began when Daryl Morey, GM of the Houston Rockets, tweeted fairly benign support for the protests. The Rockets are quite popular in China, as is the NBA, and China took an opportunity to ape extreme offense at Morey's tweet. This, despite the fact that Twitter is effectively banned and blocked on the Chinese mainland. Despite that fact, the NBA first made unfortunate noises in apologizing to the Chinese government, before Commissioner Adam Silver eventually walked that back after a public backlash. Silver instead came out in support of players and team officials speaking their minds and attempted to retrieve the NBA's one-time position as one of the most progressive and "woke" professional sports leagues in America.

It seems that Beijing really wasn't playing around, however, as Silver revealed in a recent interview that China actually asked him to fire Morey......





https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20191 ... orey.shtml


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... dam-silver

Official rebuttal by China through The Guardian but the PRC always lies don't they.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... -it-matter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/278 ... ring-tweet


Edit - Techdirt article dated two days later than most other news sources carrying the story. Perhaps a better source with the latest updates would be a better read tbh.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:35 am
by The New California Republic
Ifreann wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:You'd get them to do what? That doesn't even make sense.

I think he's trying to say that he'd have the cops call the school he works at, and have them confirm that he just has the mask for Halloween shenanigans at school.

Alright. That wasn't clear at all, as their word choice was just godawful.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:42 am
by Gormwood
The New California Republic wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
I think he's trying to say that he'd have the cops call the school he works at, and have them confirm that he just has the mask for Halloween shenanigans at school.

Alright. That wasn't clear at all, as their word choice was just godawful.

It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:45 am
by Heloin
Gormwood wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Alright. That wasn't clear at all, as their word choice was just godawful.

It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.

Is it really that surprising?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:48 am
by The New California Republic
Gormwood wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Alright. That wasn't clear at all, as their word choice was just godawful.

It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.

Yeah I think the batons would be out before IM could even get a word out.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am
by Ethel mermania
Relikai wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Well it seems the NBA changed their tune. and again shows how the PRC lies.

.....That front of this Orwellian war began when Daryl Morey, GM of the Houston Rockets, tweeted fairly benign support for the protests. The Rockets are quite popular in China, as is the NBA, and China took an opportunity to ape extreme offense at Morey's tweet. This, despite the fact that Twitter is effectively banned and blocked on the Chinese mainland. Despite that fact, the NBA first made unfortunate noises in apologizing to the Chinese government, before Commissioner Adam Silver eventually walked that back after a public backlash. Silver instead came out in support of players and team officials speaking their minds and attempted to retrieve the NBA's one-time position as one of the most progressive and "woke" professional sports leagues in America.

It seems that Beijing really wasn't playing around, however, as Silver revealed in a recent interview that China actually asked him to fire Morey......





https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20191 ... orey.shtml


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... dam-silver

Official rebuttal by China through The Guardian but the PRC always lies don't they.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... -it-matter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/278 ... ring-tweet


Edit - Techdirt article dated two days later than most other news sources carrying the story. Perhaps a better source with the latest updates would be a better read tbh.

You may want to recheck the post article, it doesnt support your position.

Also Silver so far is standing by his story. As much as I dislike the NBA, Give the boy credit, his organization is going to lose billions by not sucking xi's cock.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:04 am
by Infected Mushroom
Gormwood wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Alright. That wasn't clear at all, as their word choice was just godawful.

It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.


The police may ask me a few questions but because I am telling the truth I should be fine

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:05 am
by Relikai
Ethel mermania wrote:
Relikai wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... dam-silver

Official rebuttal by China through The Guardian but the PRC always lies don't they.


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... -it-matter

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/278 ... ring-tweet


Edit - Techdirt article dated two days later than most other news sources carrying the story. Perhaps a better source with the latest updates would be a better read tbh.

You may want to recheck the post article, it doesnt support your position.

Also Silver so far is standing by his story. As much as I dislike the NBA, Give the boy credit, his organization is going to lose billions by not sucking xi's cock.


It's not the Post, rather the Examiner, therefore a deliberately placed source with shady credentials.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

The Post, a somewhat more reputable source, has done their followup work.

The position I'd take isn't whether or not China is lying or if they even made the claim to fire.

For giving Silver credit, yeah I'd give him credit for being smart. Knowing that most Americans would believe his words whether they are true or not, he'd be sure to score brownie points by the masses seeking to suck his cock.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:05 am
by Alvecia
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Gormwood wrote:It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.


The police may ask me a few questions but because I am telling the truth I should be fine

Only if they bother to verify.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:06 am
by Heloin
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Gormwood wrote:It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.


The police may ask me a few questions but because I am telling the truth I should be fine

That's really assuming a lot of things that the HK police are not known for.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:10 am
by The New California Republic
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Gormwood wrote:It's curious that IM thinks the same HK police that threw a tear gas grenade at departing journalists to send the press a message would bother to call his school and make sure he was on the Loyal list before deciding whether or not to beat the shit out of him like any other protestor. I swear he thinks the HK protests are a video game and there's a floating sign over his head telling the authorities that he's on their side.


The police may ask me a few questions but because I am telling the truth I should be fine

The New California Republic wrote:[...] the batons would be out before IM could even get a word out.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:13 am
by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
Ethel mermania wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
..but not their values, and by they I mean the CCP under Xi Jinping.



We cannot accept that as set in stone, why should we have to change?



Then face the hypocrisy of standing for values you don't truly believe in.

I think, for many in HK, we have accepted the futility and decided to go against it anyway. Maybe it's a million to one chance but, hey, that's still a chance, a chance that's lost by just giving in.


It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

I am not being hypocritical, I like western liberal democracy, I think it's the best system we have come up with for people's overall happiness, but it's not everywhere, and its dangerous to think and act as it is. China has never been democratic in nature and within the next 20 years I do not see anything short of war making it so.

No. It is much better to die as a free man than live on your knees. I wouldn't be here if the world gave up and let the Nazis win and enslave much of the world to their will. Likewise, we wouldn't have got rid of slavery if we just stayed on our knees and embraced the chains. Chamberlains the likes of you sold out my country to Hitler for the sake of delaying a war which was fated to happen the moment Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:17 am
by Relikai
Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
It is better to live on your knees than die on your feet.

I am not being hypocritical, I like western liberal democracy, I think it's the best system we have come up with for people's overall happiness, but it's not everywhere, and its dangerous to think and act as it is. China has never been democratic in nature and within the next 20 years I do not see anything short of war making it so.

No. It is much better to die as a free man than live on your knees. I wouldn't be here if the world gave up and let the Nazis win and enslave much of the world to their will. Likewise, we wouldn't have got rid of slavery if we just stayed on our knees and embraced the chains. Chamberlains the likes of you sold out my country to Hitler for the sake of delaying a war which was fated to happen the moment Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.


Nice play on hindsight there. Democracy is cool but as EM said it's not for everyone.

Heard Iraq's not giving Democracy it's 100 perfect rate.