Hong Kong

[Heloin]

How can there be a substantial “trade war” (beyond a symbolic nod) if China is still exporting close to 20 percent of everything it makes to the USA?

In 2019 the USA is literally China’s dominant economic trade partner

It would appear that Trump is trying to earn symbolic points with voters while largely continuing business relations with China.

There can be a trade war with China if the US and China are imposing tariffs and other barriers to trade. That there is still trade between the countries doesn't mean that there is no trade war.

Something something always been at war with Eurasia something something

[Heloin]

There can be a trade war with China if the US and China are imposing tariffs and other barriers to trade. That there is still trade between the countries doesn't mean that there is no trade war.

It’s clearly not doing anything substantial to China if China still finds it profitable to export close to a complete 1/5 of everything it exports (which is a ton of stuff) to the USA

1/7 =/= 1/5

Maths isn't that hard IM.

[Infected Mushroom]

No I’m talking about America now

Even with Free Joys’ polls it showed that close to 50 percent of Americans don’t vote

And we all know about the notorious bi partisan hatred

58.1% voted. Closer to 60% voted than 50. Stop trying to play with numbers.

And that there's more than one party, where people have strong general policy disagreements, does not mean things can never get done.

Look at the UK (General Election turnout, 69%). We have multiple parties, and MPs often cross the floor to vote with their opposition party (even against explicit orders of party leadership), if they think it's right for the country.

Until the UK figures out what is going on with Brexit and even for decades after, it’s in no position to change its reliance on China

As for the USA, my read on the country (someone can correct me if I’m off) is that currently you’ve got 1/3 to 1/2 (somewhere there) disengaged from politics and the other group (the ones that participate) hating each other more than any other foreign entity. Meanwhile, the corporations run the country.

It’s going to take a long long long time for them to get any kind of act together. Not to mention they wouldn’t act collectively if they suffer short term costs to their standards of living (ex blocking China would result in increased costs for everything). Long term doesn’t matter, American system is programmed to promote the short term interests.

So the current inaction against China is completely understandable.

[Infected Mushroom]

It’s clearly not doing anything substantial to China if China still finds it profitable to export close to a complete 1/5 of everything it exports (which is a ton of stuff) to the USA

1/7 =/= 1/5

Maths isn't that hard IM.

19.2 percent

[Ifreann]

There can be a trade war with China if the US and China are imposing tariffs and other barriers to trade. That there is still trade between the countries doesn't mean that there is no trade war.

It’s clearly not doing anything substantial to China if China still finds it profitable to export close to a complete 1/5 of everything it exports (which is a ton of stuff) to the USA

Literally nothing you are saying here follows logically. And I think you know that.

[Infected Mushroom]

It’s clearly not doing anything substantial to China if China still finds it profitable to export close to a complete 1/5 of everything it exports (which is a ton of stuff) to the USA

Literally nothing you are saying here follows logically. And I think you know that.

If there is a trade war going on that is of substance, then explain to me how China can still reliably export so much of what it makes to the USA?

[New haven america]

It’s clearly not doing anything substantial to China if China still finds it profitable to export close to a complete 1/5 of everything it exports (which is a ton of stuff) to the USA

Literally nothing you are saying here follows logically. And I think you know that.

Of course they do.

How else would they be able to shill for China?

[Afrigidoloco]

Leaked image of IM earlier today.

[Heloin]

1/7 =/= 1/5

Maths isn't that hard IM.

19.2 percent

Nothing is more confusing then you switching between who's exporting to whom between posts. And you're data is still wrong, 18%.

None of that changes the fact that the US's largest trading partner is still the EU, Chinese imports could always be replaced with relatively minimal effort, and China still relies on the US and EU to not starve to death.

[Ifreann]

Literally nothing you are saying here follows logically. And I think you know that.

If there is a trade war going on that is of substance, then explain to me how China can still reliably export so much of what it makes to the USA?

There being trade doesn't mean that there isn't a trade war. This should be obvious. But this is irrelevant. You said that the US wouldn't act against China. They are acting against China. You were wrong. Now you're just trying to argue that US actions against China somehow don't count, because you can't admit that you were wrong.

[Izandai]

There can be a trade war with China if the US and China are imposing tariffs and other barriers to trade. That there is still trade between the countries doesn't mean that there is no trade war.

Something something always been at war with Eurasia something something

There is no trade war in Ba Sing Se.

[New haven america]

Something something always been at war with Eurasia something something

There is no trade war in Ba Sing Se.

But there's literally a giant fie nation drill right in front of the city!

[Samudera Darussalam]

There is no trade war in Ba Sing Se.

But there's literally a giant fie nation drill right in front of the city!

You need to be taken to Lake Laogai.

[Infected Mushroom]

If there is a trade war going on that is of substance, then explain to me how China can still reliably export so much of what it makes to the USA?

There being trade doesn't mean that there isn't a trade war. This should be obvious. But this is irrelevant. You said that the US wouldn't act against China. They are acting against China. You were wrong. Now you're just trying to argue that US actions against China somehow don't count, because you can't admit that you were wrong.

This isn’t acting against China if the net effect is still China making money from the US

You don’t “act against china” unless the net effect of your actions harm China

If Spain declared war on Germany but the net effect of their actions at the time is to send germany soldiers to help them and do positive business... then Spain has not acted against Germany

[The Free Joy State]

There being trade doesn't mean that there isn't a trade war. This should be obvious. But this is irrelevant. You said that the US wouldn't act against China. They are acting against China. You were wrong. Now you're just trying to argue that US actions against China somehow don't count, because you can't admit that you were wrong.

This isn’t acting against China if the net effect is still China making money from the US

You don’t “act against china” unless the net effect of your actions harm China

If Spain declared war on Germany but the net effect of their actions at the time is to send germany soldiers to help them and do positive business... then Spain has not acted against Germany

They have harmed China. China's GDP is at a three-decade low, slowing down for the fifth consecutive quarter.

[Izandai]

There being trade doesn't mean that there isn't a trade war. This should be obvious. But this is irrelevant. You said that the US wouldn't act against China. They are acting against China. You were wrong. Now you're just trying to argue that US actions against China somehow don't count, because you can't admit that you were wrong.

This isn’t acting against China if the net effect is still China making money from the US

It is if China is making less money from the US.

You don’t “act against china” unless the net effect of your actions harm China

And China making less money counts as harming China, even if it's still making some money.

If Spain declared war on Germany but the net effect of their actions at the time is to send germany soldiers to help them and do positive business... then Spain has not acted against Germany

That is an absurd comparison. Trade wars, despite their names, don't actually resemble real wars all that much.

[New haven america]

But there's literally a giant fie nation drill right in front of the city!

You need to be taken to Lake Laogai.

I humbly accept my invitation to Lake Laogai.

[Infected Mushroom]

This isn’t acting against China if the net effect is still China making money from the US

You don’t “act against china” unless the net effect of your actions harm China

If Spain declared war on Germany but the net effect of their actions at the time is to send germany soldiers to help them and do positive business... then Spain has not acted against Germany

They have harmed China. China's GDP is at a three-decade low, slowing down for the fifth consecutive quarter.

Are you suggesting that China is exporting to the USA at a net loss?

That’s preposterous

China trades with the USA, that’s definite proof that the overall net result of their economic interaction, however slightly offset by tariffs, is a Positive

[Infected Mushroom]

This isn’t acting against China if the net effect is still China making money from the US

It is if China is making less money from the US.

You don’t “act against china” unless the net effect of your actions harm China

And China making less money counts as harming China, even if it's still making some money.

If Spain declared war on Germany but the net effect of their actions at the time is to send germany soldiers to help them and do positive business... then Spain has not acted against Germany

That is an absurd comparison. Trade wars, despite their names, don't actually resemble real wars all that much.

So long as the USA’s overall economic interaction with China results in China making money, the USA has not in any meaningful way “moved against” China

It has merely reduced the scope of its interaction while still providing overwhelming Positivity

[Neanderthaland]

They have harmed China. China's GDP is at a three-decade low, slowing down for the fifth consecutive quarter.

Are you suggesting that China is exporting to the USA at a net loss?

That’s preposterous

China trades with the USA, that’s definite proof that the overall net result of their economic interaction, however slightly offset by tariffs, is a Positive

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

[Infected Mushroom]

Are you suggesting that China is exporting to the USA at a net loss?

That’s preposterous

China trades with the USA, that’s definite proof that the overall net result of their economic interaction, however slightly offset by tariffs, is a Positive

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

I’m saying it’s misleading/inaccurate/disingenuous to say the USA has moved against China when whatever limited actions it has taken is a drop in the bucket, far overshadowed by an overall Positive interaction

[The Free Joy State]

Are you suggesting that China is exporting to the USA at a net loss?

That’s preposterous

China trades with the USA, that’s definite proof that the overall net result of their economic interaction, however slightly offset by tariffs, is a Positive

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

I don't know why anyone is still bothering -- including me. We should all probably stop trying and do something more productive -- like watch wet paint dry.

Clearly, unless China is making no money at all, there is no loss for China. Slowdowns do not count. China having its lowest GDP in 30 years does not count. Penalisations do not count.

[Neanderthaland]

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

I’m saying it’s misleading/inaccurate/disingenuous to say the USA has moved against China when whatever limited actions it has taken is a drop in the bucket, far overshadowed by an overall Positive interaction

I'm saying that every argument you make is misleading/inaccurate/disingenuous.

[North German Realm]

Are you suggesting that China is exporting to the USA at a net loss?

That’s preposterous

China trades with the USA, that’s definite proof that the overall net result of their economic interaction, however slightly offset by tariffs, is a Positive

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

Eh, he's right in this case. If you're trading with China in any capacity (I mean like, even allowing your allies or acquaintances to buy from China or sell to them), you're actively helping them (and therefore are in fact their best friend). China's economy is export-based to a hilarious level, when you keep helping them export shit, you're helping their economy.

[Infected Mushroom]

Why does anyone even bother?

Nuance exists here only when it's convenient. There's no middle ground between being best friends and turning China into a pile of radioactive ash.

I don't know why anyone is still bothering -- including me. We should all probably stop trying and do something more productive -- like watch wet paint dry.

Clearly, unless China is making no money at all, there is no loss for China. Slowdowns do not count. China having its lowest GDP in 30 years does not count. Penalisations do not count.

You can’t “penalize” China by maintaining positive trade relations and still taking in nearly 20 percent of all Chinese exports

There’s a reason China has influence even over American corporations. They are on the same team.