Hong Kong

[Pretty Much God]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

No, in fact, your point makes no sense. If anything, school and work is put irreparably at risk by letting China spread your cheeks.

The third party is people from OTHER countries man. People that sympathize with them are going out of their way to donate. See: sig

[Duhon]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

i would, but i'm rich

but that's really beside the real point
namely, that people would be pissed enough to ignore everything and protest against their government

[Samudera Darussalam]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

No, in fact, your point makes no sense. If anything, school and work is put irreparably at risk by letting China spread your cheeks.

The third party is people from OTHER countries man. People that sympathize with them are going out of their way to donate. See: sig

I've seen you pointed to the sig for at least twice in this thread. I'm not really sure he cares.

[Tuthina]

But your grades and off the clock work prep will also fall

And the bigger issue is your future prospects if arrested （and everyone knows the police are only bidding their time for a mass arrest, it’s only a question of When)

Point is, I find it hard to believe people would undertake such consistent and egregious risks without some kind of compensation or exit strategy by a powerful third party

Which part of "The participants are well-aware of the risk they put to their own well-being, but are willing to go forward anyway" do you not understand? I mean, apart from the idea that there are something more important than personal financial well-being.

I don't think future prospect is actually that big an issue even if one's arrested, charged and found guilty once they're served their time. After all, when employers look at one's resume and see there's a criminal record, they will most likely ask about its details, and we all know what it means to be guilty of rioting in 2019 in Hong Kong. It would only hinder people trying to get a job in the government or pro-government companies, which is probably not on protesters' mind anyway for obvious reasons.

And my point is that of course you find it hard to believe, because you ultimately operates on a value system that's fundamentally different from those who would be in protests.

[Heloin]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

This smear campaign only makes you look bad.

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

Your continued ignorance about how people protest is astounding. I've told you before how the protests can be constant but the people can, and do still easily live their lives.

See my point?

It's a pretty asinine point.

[Bombadil]

Frankly it doesn't matter even if foreign payments are coming in. This is where values of freedom of speech, of representation, of media and rights clash with totalitarian top-down media controlled politics. People in HK are fighting for the right to be represented, for government and its tools to be accountable to the population.

While it's currently focused within HK this is a global issue. The problems of Apple, the NBA and Blizzard are over the extent to which we kowtow and sacrifice principles for personal gain.

Why don't nations recognise Taiwan? What is this arbitrary idea that a line on a map represents the right to own a people?

Nations, companies and individuals are going to have to confront the choice of whether we truly stand for liberty, equality, fraternity or whether those are just lip service to maintain a form of control. All these high statements on company logos, that seep out the mouths of politicians, spouted in bars and offices around the world.

When it comes down to the line where do people stand?

Quintus: People should know when they're conquered.
Gen. Maximus: Would you, Quintus? Would I?

[Sovaal]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Plenty of people would, especially pissed off young people, hell they used to willingly give up their lives in wars and revolts, let alone political movements.

[Free Arabian Nation]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Um, no. I would not protest just to skip school, nor would I do it for money. If I truly wanted to support an idea, I would go out there and protest (which I have done, once.)

As for paying, people are getting shot at and dying. That's gotta be a helluva lot of money. Let's say 1/8th of the nation is protesting (might be more, might be less, I could not find good numbers). That's still around a million protesters. To give each one a hundred dollars would be 100 million USD. The only people that rich are oligarchs who want to, you know, maintaining good relationships with China? Besides, 100 dollars isn't enough for me to get shot at and I doubt many people would get shot at for 100 dollars.

The only way for this dumb hypothetical to work is if HK is so poor and starving that people are willing to cause a civil disturbance for less than 100 dollars each. (The protests have no centralized authority by the way, so there is no organized group to bribe. Meaning that most of the protesters would need to be bribed.)

[Pretty Much God]

No, in fact, your point makes no sense. If anything, school and work is put irreparably at risk by letting China spread your cheeks.

The third party is people from OTHER countries man. People that sympathize with them are going out of their way to donate. See: sig

I've seen you pointed to the sig for at least twice in this thread. I'm not really sure he cares.

Given that he still thinks that the CIA is supporting dose dayumn protestahs, I doubt he's even acknowledging the CONCEPT of publically funded protests

[Grenartia]

Just because resistance is futile (which, while very likely, is not certain), doesn't mean we shouldn't resist, though. I also think that it's too late to stop and "settle in" now, now that the lid has been blown open. Once the movement fell from the limelight of international attention, the government will likely only hasten the process of assimilating Hong Kong into China, where many protesters, or even just sympathisers, would not meet a good end if they continue to stay in Hong Kong. Naturally, that also means that, as Eodor said, we do have a vested interest in seeing the downfall of CCP, as it was ultimately the one keeping the Hong Kong government afloat.

I suppose for many of us, the realisation that the struggle is now one of life and death (figuratively and, for some, perhaps literally) is starting to set in, and is one of the main reasons why the level of force used by some of the more proactive protesters has been steadily increasing. Tellingly, though, despite that, survey results and turnouts in large-scale protests (when they're approved by the police, that is) suggest that the more peaceful protesters, even if they don't participate in the more violent actions, consider it reasonable or at least understandable.


For someone supposedly living in Hong Kong, you seem painfully unaware of the fact that most protests occur outside working hours (weekday nights and weekends). The several strikes, even if their turnouts are not exactly ideal (in no small parts due to the lack of said backing due to the weak union tradition of the city), are still quite remarkable considering how few and small past strikes are.

But your grades and off the clock work prep will also fall

And the bigger issue is your future prospects if arrested （and everyone knows the police are only bidding their time for a mass arrest, it’s only a question of When)

Point is, I find it hard to believe people would undertake such consistent and egregious risks without some kind of compensation or exit strategy by a powerful third party

The compensation is their freedom, their exit strategy is forcing Beijing to back down.

[Free Arabian Nation]

But your grades and off the clock work prep will also fall

And the bigger issue is your future prospects if arrested （and everyone knows the police are only bidding their time for a mass arrest, it’s only a question of When)

Point is, I find it hard to believe people would undertake such consistent and egregious risks without some kind of compensation or exit strategy by a powerful third party

The compensation is their freedom, their exit strategy is forcing Beijing to back down.

It's almost like long-term gain exists

[Bombadil]

Two days after Abdujelil Emet sat in the public gallery of Germany’s parliament during a hearing on human rights, he received a phone call from his sister for the first time in three years. But the call from Xinjiang, in western China, was anything but a joyous family chat. It was made at the direction of Chinese security officers, part of a campaign by Beijing to silence criticism of policies that have seen more than a million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities detained in internment camps.

Emet’s sister began by praising the Communist party and making claims of a much improved life under its guidance before delivering a shock: his brother had died a year earlier. But Emet, 54, was suspicious from the start; he had never given his family his phone number. Amid the heartbreaking news and sloganeering, he could hear a flurry of whispers in the background, and he demanded to speak to the unknown voice. Moments later the phone was handed to a Chinese official who refused to identify himself.

By the end of the conversation, the façade constructed by the Chinese security agent was broken and Emet’s sister wept as she begged him to stop his activism. Then the Chinese official took the phone again with a final warning.

“You’re living overseas, but you need to think of your family while you’re running around doing your activism work in Germany,” he said. “You need to think of their safety.”

Link

No one wants to live in a world run like this.

[Grenartia]

Two days after Abdujelil Emet sat in the public gallery of Germany’s parliament during a hearing on human rights, he received a phone call from his sister for the first time in three years. But the call from Xinjiang, in western China, was anything but a joyous family chat. It was made at the direction of Chinese security officers, part of a campaign by Beijing to silence criticism of policies that have seen more than a million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities detained in internment camps.

Emet’s sister began by praising the Communist party and making claims of a much improved life under its guidance before delivering a shock: his brother had died a year earlier. But Emet, 54, was suspicious from the start; he had never given his family his phone number. Amid the heartbreaking news and sloganeering, he could hear a flurry of whispers in the background, and he demanded to speak to the unknown voice. Moments later the phone was handed to a Chinese official who refused to identify himself.

By the end of the conversation, the façade constructed by the Chinese security agent was broken and Emet’s sister wept as she begged him to stop his activism. Then the Chinese official took the phone again with a final warning.

“You’re living overseas, but you need to think of your family while you’re running around doing your activism work in Germany,” he said. “You need to think of their safety.”

Link

No one wants to live in a world run like this.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Perhaps the worst part about 1984 is that authoritarian regimes around the world have taken to using it as an instruction manual, a blueprint for every kind of vile oppression possible.

[Neanderthaland]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

That's not nearly as unrealistic as thousands and thousands of people all perfectly keeping their mouths shut about an enormous conspiracy.

This is exactly as dumb as the "9/11 was an inside job" conspiracy theory, and for the same reason.

And you should frankly be ashamed and embarrassed that you proposed it. I know you won't, but you should.

[Free Arabian Nation]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

That's not nearly as unrealistic as thousands and thousands of people all perfectly keeping their mouths shut about an enormous conspiracy.

This is exactly as dumb as the "9/11 was an inside job" conspiracy theory, and for the same reason.

And you should frankly be ashamed and embarrassed that you proposed it. I know you won't, but you should.

He has yet to show shame for wishing for Tiananmen 2: Hong Kong Boogaloo. I think the concept of shame, outside of using it against others, is foreign to him.

[New haven america]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Actually, you're not too far off.

Yeah, Mainland China is paying local and Shenzhen based Triad gangs to go in and assault protestors.

[Free Arabian Nation]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Actually, you're not too far off.

Yeah, Mainland China is paying local and Shenzhen based Triad gangs to go in and assault protestors.

I'm gonna need a sauce

Not because I don't think it's possible, but I need my proof

[Tuthina]

Actually, you're not too far off.

Yeah, Mainland China is paying local and Shenzhen based Triad gangs to go in and assault protestors.

I'm gonna need a sauce

Not because I don't think it's possible, but I need my proof

The paying part itself is mostly just hearsay, but the triad gangs attacking protesters and civilians is well-known (with signs that it might be organised, or at least supported by some elements of the government and police) by now, with the most famous case being the July 21 attack in Yuen long. Hong Kong Connection, a program made by the public broadcasting service in Hong Kong, made an episode detailing it (and, for once, this time there is English subtitle). Despite it being a public service, RTHK is quite neutral (if not slightly pro-protester) when reporting on the ongoing protests, and some of its programs are quite informative with decent production quality as well.

[Infected Mushroom]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Um, no. I would not protest just to skip school, nor would I do it for money. If I truly wanted to support an idea, I would go out there and protest (which I have done, once.)

As for paying, people are getting shot at and dying. That's gotta be a helluva lot of money. Let's say 1/8th of the nation is protesting (might be more, might be less, I could not find good numbers). That's still around a million protesters. To give each one a hundred dollars would be 100 million USD. The only people that rich are oligarchs who want to, you know, maintaining good relationships with China? Besides, 100 dollars isn't enough for me to get shot at and I doubt many people would get shot at for 100 dollars.

The only way for this dumb hypothetical to work is if HK is so poor and starving that people are willing to cause a civil disturbance for less than 100 dollars each. (The protests have no centralized authority by the way, so there is no organized group to bribe. Meaning that most of the protesters would need to be bribed.)

You... you protested in the past?

I’m shocked

[Tuthina]

Um, no. I would not protest just to skip school, nor would I do it for money. If I truly wanted to support an idea, I would go out there and protest (which I have done, once.)

As for paying, people are getting shot at and dying. That's gotta be a helluva lot of money. Let's say 1/8th of the nation is protesting (might be more, might be less, I could not find good numbers). That's still around a million protesters. To give each one a hundred dollars would be 100 million USD. The only people that rich are oligarchs who want to, you know, maintaining good relationships with China? Besides, 100 dollars isn't enough for me to get shot at and I doubt many people would get shot at for 100 dollars.

The only way for this dumb hypothetical to work is if HK is so poor and starving that people are willing to cause a civil disturbance for less than 100 dollars each. (The protests have no centralized authority by the way, so there is no organized group to bribe. Meaning that most of the protesters would need to be bribed.)

You... you protested in the past?

I’m shocked

Way to miss the rest of the reply. Still, it's quite remarkable to live in Hong Kong and not be around protesters.

[Hong Kong]

Hong Kong should resist both western and PRC violence
時代革命

[The Free Joy State]

Two days after Abdujelil Emet sat in the public gallery of Germany’s parliament during a hearing on human rights, he received a phone call from his sister for the first time in three years. But the call from Xinjiang, in western China, was anything but a joyous family chat. It was made at the direction of Chinese security officers, part of a campaign by Beijing to silence criticism of policies that have seen more than a million Uighurs and other Muslim minorities detained in internment camps.

Emet’s sister began by praising the Communist party and making claims of a much improved life under its guidance before delivering a shock: his brother had died a year earlier. But Emet, 54, was suspicious from the start; he had never given his family his phone number. Amid the heartbreaking news and sloganeering, he could hear a flurry of whispers in the background, and he demanded to speak to the unknown voice. Moments later the phone was handed to a Chinese official who refused to identify himself.

By the end of the conversation, the façade constructed by the Chinese security agent was broken and Emet’s sister wept as she begged him to stop his activism. Then the Chinese official took the phone again with a final warning.

“You’re living overseas, but you need to think of your family while you’re running around doing your activism work in Germany,” he said. “You need to think of their safety.”

Link

No one wants to live in a world run like this.

Last line bolded for emphasis, because ^ this. One thousand times, this.

[Macau]

Sounds exactly like it, you don't get to dictate the governance of other nations because you're "scared"

No no, you misunderstand me. Me wanting China as a state and geopolitical concept to be dissolved has nothing to do with my fear of China, quite possibly the worst state to exist in the last three hundred years, having influence on my country's politics and economy. That's just because I don't believe in ethnic supremacist states pretending to be a nation. My fear just gives me a good reason to call for what I want.

Possibly the worst state to exist in the last three hundred years?..

I'd say modern China is much better than say, Nazi Germany, the British Empire, and the Khmer Rouge.

[North German Realm]

No no, you misunderstand me. Me wanting China as a state and geopolitical concept to be dissolved has nothing to do with my fear of China, quite possibly the worst state to exist in the last three hundred years, having influence on my country's politics and economy. That's just because I don't believe in ethnic supremacist states pretending to be a nation. My fear just gives me a good reason to call for what I want.

Possibly the worst state to exist in the last three hundred years?..

I'd say modern China is much better than say, Nazi Germany, the British Empire, and the Khmer Rouge.

You are correct. One of the worst states to exist in the last three hundred years, then.

[Gormwood]

Hong Kong should resist both western and PRC violence
時代革命

Western violence? The Opium Wars have been over for more than a century.