Hong Kong

[Infected Mushroom]

I wish China would just leave Hong Kong and Macao alone. They have different systems of government and society. I'm pretty sure the citizens of Hong Kong and Macao are not going to give up their freedoms without a fight.

You bet we will!

My parents went to the June 12 protests and the situation is very different than then situation portrayed on the news. My mom actually breathed in tear gas. The police claim that they were using force to disperse violent protestors but 150+ tear gas canisters was simply unjustifiable. My mom was on a bridge looking and then the police just fired a canister of tear gas onto the bridge. It exploded less than 20 meters away from my mom.

Why in your view, was 120+ canisters unacceptable?

[Duhon]

And you don't give a shit that about 72 demonstrators have been wounded by rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. That really doesn't surprise me.

It is most unfortunate that they were hurt

However, the protest was reckless and irresponsible

The government of Hong Kong -- and the Chinese government by extension -- are the ones abusing their powers here, but then again you'd excuse that if it means more Ka-shing for you.

[Infected Mushroom]

It is most unfortunate that they were hurt

However, the protest was reckless and irresponsible

The government of Hong Kong -- and the Chinese government by extension -- are the ones abusing their powers here, but then again you'd excuse that if it means more Ka-shing for you.

There’s no abuse of power here

The protests make it impossible to safely and reliably conduct business or even just live in one of Hong Kong’s most important economic areas

The protests had to be stopped before it spread and Hong Kong was economically and socially uprooted

They learned from the previous round which is why this time they went hard with the canisters

Police tactics evolve

[Rojava Free State]

The government of Hong Kong -- and the Chinese government by extension -- are the ones abusing their powers here, but then again you'd excuse that if it means more Ka-shing for you.

There’s no abuse of power here

The protests make it impossible to safely and reliably conduct business or even just live in one of Hong Kong’s most important economic areas

The protests had to be stopped before it spread and Hong Kong was economically and socially uprooted

They learned from the previous round which is why this time they went hard with the canisters

Police tactics evolve

While I don't support rioting, I wouldn't call the police the good guys in this. These protests will happen when tyranny threatens the people

[Infected Mushroom]

There’s no abuse of power here

The protests make it impossible to safely and reliably conduct business or even just live in one of Hong Kong’s most important economic areas

The protests had to be stopped before it spread and Hong Kong was economically and socially uprooted

They learned from the previous round which is why this time they went hard with the canisters

Police tactics evolve

While I don't support rioting, I wouldn't call the police the good guys in this. These protests will happen when tyranny threatens the people

yesterday regular people were scared of going through Central/Admiralty because of the protests and the chaos, they couldn't conduct any business there and the shops will suffer

thanks to the police, in a few days they can resume their operations

[The Lone Alliance]

More and more of the reason why I believe China is more trouble than it's worth.

"Cheap products" aren't worth it.

[Duhon]

The government of Hong Kong -- and the Chinese government by extension -- are the ones abusing their powers here, but then again you'd excuse that if it means more Ka-shing for you.

There’s no abuse of power here

The protests make it impossible to safely and reliably conduct business or even just live in one of Hong Kong’s most important economic areas

The protests had to be stopped before it spread and Hong Kong was economically and socially uprooted

They learned from the previous round which is why this time they went hard with the canisters

Police tactics evolve

I'm not bitching about "police tactics". I have been bitching about the reason why these protests flared up in the first place. Know the difference.

[Thanatttynia]

While I don't support rioting, I wouldn't call the police the good guys in this. These protests will happen when tyranny threatens the people

yesterday regular people were scared of going through Central/Admiralty because of the protests and the chaos, they couldn't conduct any business there and the shops will suffer

thanks to the police, in a few days they can resume their operations

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

[Duhon]

yesterday regular people were scared of going through Central/Admiralty because of the protests and the chaos, they couldn't conduct any business there and the shops will suffer

thanks to the police, in a few days they can resume their operations

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

"That doesn't matter as long as there aren't mass disappearances, and the ones disappearing aren't me or people I know and love. Just gonna hafta mummify my mouth in social credit so I don't say anything remotely offensive, like 'Winnie the Pooh' or 'what is Tiananmen?'!"

[Bombadil]

yesterday regular people were scared of going through Central/Admiralty because of the protests and the chaos, they couldn't conduct any business there and the shops will suffer

thanks to the police, in a few days they can resume their operations

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

Anyway, it was totally fine yesterday, no one felt unsafe and the area in Admiralty is mostly office and government buildings as opposed to shops. I was in Central yesterday and, oddly, the weird part was how normal things were.. that and some monster rainfall.

[Bombadil]

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

"That doesn't matter as long as there aren't mass disappearances, and the ones disappearing aren't me or people I know and love. Just gonna hafta mummify my mouth in social credit so I don't say anything remotely offensive, like 'Winnie the Pooh' or 'what is Tiananmen?'!"

Funnily enough I have a tattoo of Winnie the Pooh from back when I was living in Australia. So technically I'm illegal in China.. so technically under this law they could extradite me as a political dissident.

Not that this would happen but the window would be open for it to happen.

[Thanatttynia]

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

"That doesn't matter as long as there aren't mass disappearances, and the ones disappearing aren't me or people I know and love. Just gonna hafta mummify my mouth in social credit so I don't say anything remotely offensive, like 'Winnie the Pooh' or 'what is Tiananmen?'!"

It must be immeasurably difficult to actually stand up to authoritarian govts irl... but I have no patience with Xi's online defenders. The moral vacuity jumps out of these people

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

Anyway, it was totally fine yesterday, no one felt unsafe and the area in Admiralty is mostly office and government buildings as opposed to shops. I was in Central yesterday and, oddly, the weird part was how normal things were.. that and some monster rainfall.

Do you think that's it for protests over this bill, or this is just a lull? I guess it's difficult to predict, but from afar it looks as though HK's people can't really do much without international backing. Hope everyone there continues to be safe

[Infected Mushroom]

yesterday regular people were scared of going through Central/Admiralty because of the protests and the chaos, they couldn't conduct any business there and the shops will suffer

thanks to the police, in a few days they can resume their operations

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

China has no plans to interfere with Hong Kong as a center of free flowing commerce

China understands this is what makes Hong Kong successful economically and what is good for Hong Kong will be good for China too

[Infected Mushroom]

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

Anyway, it was totally fine yesterday, no one felt unsafe and the area in Admiralty is mostly office and government buildings as opposed to shops. I was in Central yesterday and, oddly, the weird part was how normal things were.. that and some monster rainfall.

that's because the police put a stop to it in a single day

[Pasong Tirad]

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

China has no plans to interfere with Hong Kong as a center of free flowing commerce

China understands this is what makes Hong Kong successful economically and what is good for Hong Kong will be good for China too

China has no plans to interfere in Hong Kong, which is why what it's doing now is totally not interfering by turning the LegCo into another rubber stamp for Beijing.

10/10 logic.

[Thanatttynia]

Its hard to stay safe and conduct business now? Try in 20 years when HK is just another Chinese city. Protests like this not happening in mainland China isn't because its easier there to stay safe and conduct business, it's because protest there will get you disappeared/killed by the state

China has no plans to interfere with Hong Kong as a center of free flowing commerce

China understands this is what makes Hong Kong successful economically and what is good for Hong Kong will be good for China too

China itself is now a centre of free-flowing commerce. As Hong Kong loses importance as a sort of staple port, its people will become increasingly reliant on the CCP's largesse if they want to maintain their freedoms, which, idk about you but you would never catch me entrusting my human rights to the CCP.

[Bombadil]

Do you think that's it for protests over this bill, or this is just a lull? I guess it's difficult to predict, but from afar it looks as though HK's people can't really do much without international backing. Hope everyone there continues to be safe

Next protests are set for this Sunday. To be honest it really depends on when or if they decide to table the second reading. No date has yet been set and doesn't seem there's much hurry to set it.

[Infected Mushroom]

China has no plans to interfere with Hong Kong as a center of free flowing commerce

China understands this is what makes Hong Kong successful economically and what is good for Hong Kong will be good for China too

China has no plans to interfere in Hong Kong, which is why what it's doing now is totally not interfering by turning the LegCo into another rubber stamp for Beijing.

10/10 logic.

China hasn't been the side pushing to restrict the free flow of commerce and labour in Hong Kong.

If anything, its the working class in HK who take issue with the flow of labour and goods from China, the increasing Chinese tourism (which ironically benefits the economy), and the increase in immigration from the mainland.

Blaming the Chinese government is easy when really its just the forces of globalization and the logical outcome of Hong Kong being such a place of free trade and free access.

[Infected Mushroom]

China has no plans to interfere with Hong Kong as a center of free flowing commerce

China understands this is what makes Hong Kong successful economically and what is good for Hong Kong will be good for China too

China itself is now a centre of free-flowing commerce. As Hong Kong loses importance as a sort of staple port, its people will become increasingly reliant on the CCP's largesse if they want to maintain their freedoms, which, idk about you but you would never catch me entrusting my human rights to the CCP.

that has more to do with economics, not who appoints the leader of Hong Kong or how the legislature is selected

the simple fact is, the world is becoming more integrated and globalized... China is huge and Hong Kong has (largely on its own volition) opted to go the free trade/unrestricted capitalism route; the free market is going to make use of China's production and free labour

that's just how its going to be regardless of whether you elect the complete government or just a part of it

[Pasong Tirad]

China has no plans to interfere in Hong Kong, which is why what it's doing now is totally not interfering by turning the LegCo into another rubber stamp for Beijing.

10/10 logic.

China hasn't been the side pushing to restrict the free flow of commerce and labour in Hong Kong.

If anything, its the working class in HK who take issue with the flow of labour and goods from China, the increasing Chinese tourism (which ironically benefits the economy), and the increase in immigration from the mainland.

Blaming the Chinese government is easy when really its just the forces of globalization and the logical outcome of Hong Kong being such a place of free trade and free access.

No, China has just been restricting personal and political freedoms that Hong Kong enjoys, all in the name of taking home huge wads that benefit not the common working folk but Beijing and big business. This is the problem with your "got mine" attitude. All you care about is making money and fuck everyone else getting screwed over by the Mainland. It's disgusting and you should really check your personal beliefs.

[Thanatttynia]

China itself is now a centre of free-flowing commerce. As Hong Kong loses importance as a sort of staple port, its people will become increasingly reliant on the CCP's largesse if they want to maintain their freedoms, which, idk about you but you would never catch me entrusting my human rights to the CCP.

that has more to do with economics, not who appoints the leader of Hong Kong or how the legislature is selected

the simple fact is, the world is becoming more integrated and globalized... China is huge and Hong Kong has (largely on its own volition) opted to go the free trade/unrestricted capitalism route; the free market is going to make use of China's production and free labour

that's just how its going to be regardless of whether you elect the complete government or just a part of it

China is justified in riding bareback over any semblance of Hong Kong's autonomy and abusing the rights of the people of Hong Kong because globalisation? Wdym?

[Infected Mushroom]

China hasn't been the side pushing to restrict the free flow of commerce and labour in Hong Kong.

If anything, its the working class in HK who take issue with the flow of labour and goods from China, the increasing Chinese tourism (which ironically benefits the economy), and the increase in immigration from the mainland.

Blaming the Chinese government is easy when really its just the forces of globalization and the logical outcome of Hong Kong being such a place of free trade and free access.

No, China has just been restricting personal and political freedoms that Hong Kong enjoys, all in the name of taking home huge wads that benefit not the common working folk but Beijing and big business. This is the problem with your "got mine" attitude. All you care about is making money and fuck everyone else getting screwed over by the Mainland. It's disgusting and you should really check your personal beliefs.

Hong Kong has always been an extremely capitalistic city, that's how it is

there isn't even a sizable center-left political party in Hong Kong; its got nothing to do with whether Hong Kong can or can't elect the entire government. Its always been a city that exploits the workers.

It's just how it rolls.

[Thanatttynia]

Its always been a city that exploits the workers.

It's just how it rolls.

Nothing like China, then, the country famed for how little exploitation of workers goes on within it

[Pasong Tirad]

No, China has just been restricting personal and political freedoms that Hong Kong enjoys, all in the name of taking home huge wads that benefit not the common working folk but Beijing and big business. This is the problem with your "got mine" attitude. All you care about is making money and fuck everyone else getting screwed over by the Mainland. It's disgusting and you should really check your personal beliefs.

Hong Kong has always been an extremely capitalistic city, that's how it is

there isn't even a sizable center-left political party in Hong Kong; its got nothing to do with whether Hong Kong can or can't elect the entire government. Its always been a city that exploits the workers.

It's just how it rolls.

"That's how it's always been" is a shit argument. The fact that this is always how this city has operated doesn't justify Beijing taking it over and making it a hundred times worse.

[Infected Mushroom]

Hong Kong has always been an extremely capitalistic city, that's how it is

there isn't even a sizable center-left political party in Hong Kong; its got nothing to do with whether Hong Kong can or can't elect the entire government. Its always been a city that exploits the workers.

It's just how it rolls.

"That's how it's always been" is a shit argument. The fact that this is always how this city has operated doesn't justify Beijing taking it over and making it a hundred times worse.

it was a capitalistic hellhole under the British too

Hong Kong is a port city, AKA a bastion of capitalism at its best and worst

if you interfere with the free flow of commerce the city's economy will suffer, every side understands this