NATION

PASSWORD

Hong Kong

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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In retrospect..

The UK was right to handover HK to China
231
16%
The UK should have kept HK
289
20%
The UK should have set up HK as an independent, democratic state
870
60%
Other
58
4%
 
Total votes : 1448

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Kaltovar
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 354
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kaltovar » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:56 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.


Okay, well I'm a person in the west and I definitely don't mean Chinese people. I've found Chinese-Americans to be some of my most fanatical allies when it comes to talking about the danger the PRC poses to the rest of the world. I grew up being friends with a Chinese family that owned the local Chinese restaurant, and they told me they fled the PRC because it was totalitarian and terrifying.

Purgatio wrote:Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power.


I think that's debatable. Why is it that I'm bothered by China growing in power but excited by India growing in power? I think India is a responsible country ... Sure it has flaws and can be repressive too, but not anywhere near the scale of the PRC.

As a matter of fact, I actually love China if we're talking about pre-communist China. If China became a Republic tomorrow (and stopped the organ harvesting ETC) I'd be glad to see them doing well.

Purgatio wrote: I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.


I don't think the existence of Chinese culture threatens mine though. There's a reason I said China is a threat, not Chinese culture. The NATION of China poses a threat to my culture.

The core of the issue here is that my culture is a melting pot culture, and we can (and have) handle plenty of Chinese immigrants. They add their cultural genetics to ours and the competition makes us stronger. There is no reason to fear Chinese culture in that context.

Should I fear a nationstate which has the stated goal of reshaping the world (which would include my culture) to be favorable for a Han Ethnostate? Yes, I think that's rational.

I differentiate between the State of China and the People of China ... And not because somebody is going to come hit me with the naughty stick if I say I don't like Chinese people. I view Chinese who assimilate as one of America's best strategic assets at this stage of our history.
The Philosophy Department of the Ministry of Propaganda invites you to explore our latest publication! [MP/PD-1671841#AABLF]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1671841

INB4 somebody uses my Iron Cross to Blues Clues out my SecretFascism™ the words immediately next to it are "From Many Peoples One Nation" and the Iron Cross is a symbol that has existed since 1813 which Nazis stole Prussian Valor by wearing because they couldn't defeat Russia and wanted to LARP as an army that could.

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Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:58 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Kaltovar wrote:
Fake news. Here in America, India is our BFF. We're hosting more and more joint exercises and beginning to share technology, and are close to signing a Joint Defense Agreement (we already signed a Joint Strategic Vision). You know who else we love? Korea, Japan, Thailand ... America fucking loves Vietnam now too, who has recently started allowing us to dock aircraft carriers as a direct result of China's Fascist posturing ... But wait, they're Asian ... How can this be possible in your world where complex geopolitical strategy is determined based on race as if we still live in 1926???

How telling you have to use an example from "The Early 1900s", which by the way can be explained by "Because Japan was threatening their colonial interests, and got treated exactly like Portugal would have been if they started scooping up shit in Asia on that scale." Racism probably played a part, but this is pre-ww2 Europe you're talking about.


You'll notice I said in my answer "rising power". Every nation needs allies, but a country with a growing economy and a GDP that has surpassed the US in PPP and might soon surpass the US GDP in nominal terms is a threat, unlike India or ROK or Vietnam. The historical pattern since WWII is the same, every time a major country that is not majority-white sees its economy grow large and fast enough that it might threaten to displace that of the US and other Western nations, there's a systematic attempt to suppress that growth. It happened with Japan in the 1980s and see the same thing happening with China today. It's racial tribalism in action, but on an international stage.


Then you should ally yourself with White Nationalists. I do because I know that they are a lot less interested in interfering in our region than neocons or SJWs.

If whites make a strategic mistake of trying to prevent the NE Asian race from reaching our potential then this will cause a Byzantine-Sassanian situation and both races will be destroyed...maybe even human civilization will be no more.

That's what I have always been telling WNs. Let's split the world.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:03 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Kaltovar wrote:
I can agree with that.

However, it's not why I have issues with China. I have issues with China because they harvest organs, game the international currency market, annex independent countries like Tibet, and want to reshape the world in their image. Yes also because they pose a threat to my NATION and CULTURE, which is tribalistic for sure, but I differentiate between my culture and my race.

I think that's why most serious strategic thinkers in the Defense Department take issue with them ... Yes some of them may just be racist, but also some of them might be racist AND able to see the legitimate strategic threat to this country they pose in the long term. The majority I think are not motivated by race ... Many people in the DOD are Asian (surprisingly very many) and even Chinese-American, black, Spanish, you name it.


Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.

Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.

In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.

User avatar
Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:05 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.

Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.

In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


Purgatio is inconsistent (so do antisemitic WNs). He should become a neocolonialist and someone with views similar to Imperial Japan instead of this weird mixture.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Anticolonialism is simply evil. The glory of Koror City and Truk will stand forever.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Purgatio
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Posts: 6479
Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.

Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.

In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


I'm explicitly not arguing that, as I made clear in my post.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:10 pm

Neko-koku wrote:
Heloin wrote:In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


Purgatio is inconsistent (so do antisemitic WNs). He should become a neocolonialist and someone with views similar to Imperial Japan instead of this weird mixture.


What weird mixture?
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Neko-koku wrote:
Purgatio is inconsistent (so do antisemitic WNs). He should become a neocolonialist and someone with views similar to Imperial Japan instead of this weird mixture.


What weird mixture?


You can't claim that racism is evil and at the same time be racist in another context (Africa). That's essentially the same mistake antisemitic WNs have commited. Anything they say about browns can be used by Jews against whites. Anything they say about Jews can be used by browns against whites...simply by changing tribe names.

I'm consistent. Because the NE Asian race is a great race we deserve to be proud colonists just like white colonists before us. Colonialism and racism are good.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:14 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Heloin wrote:In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


I'm explicitly not arguing that, as I made clear in my post.

Your post says the opposite.

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Purgatio
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Posts: 6479
Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:15 pm

Kaltovar wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.


Okay, well I'm a person in the west and I definitely don't mean Chinese people. I've found Chinese-Americans to be some of my most fanatical allies when it comes to talking about the danger the PRC poses to the rest of the world. I grew up being friends with a Chinese family that owned the local Chinese restaurant, and they told me they fled the PRC because it was totalitarian and terrifying.

Purgatio wrote:Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power.


I think that's debatable. Why is it that I'm bothered by China growing in power but excited by India growing in power? I think India is a responsible country ... Sure it has flaws and can be repressive too, but not anywhere near the scale of the PRC.

As a matter of fact, I actually love China if we're talking about pre-communist China. If China became a Republic tomorrow (and stopped the organ harvesting ETC) I'd be glad to see them doing well.

Purgatio wrote: I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.


I don't think the existence of Chinese culture threatens mine though. There's a reason I said China is a threat, not Chinese culture. The NATION of China poses a threat to my culture.

The core of the issue here is that my culture is a melting pot culture, and we can (and have) handle plenty of Chinese immigrants. They add their cultural genetics to ours and the competition makes us stronger. There is no reason to fear Chinese culture in that context.

Should I fear a nationstate which has the stated goal of reshaping the world (which would include my culture) to be favorable for a Han Ethnostate? Yes, I think that's rational.

I differentiate between the State of China and the People of China ... And not because somebody is going to come hit me with the naughty stick if I say I don't like Chinese people. I view Chinese who assimilate as one of America's best strategic assets at this stage of our history.


Sure, cultural assimilation is always possible, but at the end of the day race and culture are linked, the latter arises out of the former. A culture is crafted by the collective and total behaviours of a particular group of people, and these cultures have arisen out of nations each with different racial compositions. The culture of Japan is different from the culture of Iran because the racial and ethnic make-up of each country is different, and those differences give rise over centuries to the creation of a different cultural heritage. But the two cannot be perfectly segmented.

All of human history is a struggle of tribe against tribe, race against race, people against people, we cannot see what is happening today on the global stage as segmented or segregated in any way from that continuous historical chain. The US and China are rivals competing for global influence for the same reason as between the US and Japan in the 1940s (militarily) and the 1980s (economically) or the struggle between the Ottomans and the Hapsburgs in 16th and 17th Centuries or the competition between Russia and Japan in North Asia in the early 1900s and on and on it goes. Racial tribalism and our tendency towards in-group, out-group thinking explains so much about how countries and States interact with one another, how civilisations rise and fall.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:16 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
I'm explicitly not arguing that, as I made clear in my post.

Your post says the opposite.


No, I actually said the following:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. "
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

User avatar
Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:17 pm

Neko-koku wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
What weird mixture?


You can't claim that racism is evil and at the same time be racist in another context (Africa). That's essentially the same mistake antisemitic WNs have commited. Anything they say about browns can be used by Jews against whites. Anything they say about Jews can be used by browns against whites...simply by changing tribe names.

I'm consistent. Because the NE Asian race is a great race we deserve to be proud colonists just like white colonists before us. Colonialism and racism are good.


But I'm not saying racism is evil, I explicitly said the opposite. Racial tribalism is a natural and normal human instinct, derived over centuries of natural selection and competition between races and tribes over that same period. I think it's acceptable and in fact beautiful to have a deeply-rooted racial identity and to want to advance the interest of your racial tribe and defend its interests against enemies and outsiders who seek, innately and biologically, to destroy and wipe out your people off the face of the Earth.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

User avatar
Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:18 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Heloin wrote:Your post says the opposite.


No, I actually said the following:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. "


Since racial tribalism is normal you should know that it can't harm the great NE Asian race in the long run. We are Siberian Tigers. We rule. The fact that Lions rule somewhere else have nothing to do with us.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
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Postby Novus America » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:20 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Race and culture are linked, in theory of course its possible to separate the two but in practice most people who talk about one really mean the other. When people in China talk about the threat posed to them by "Western culture", they mean white culture, and when people in the West talk about the threat posed by "Chinese culture", they mean Chinese people. No ifs or buts about it, it's just a layer of subtlety because you can't openly say you despise a race of people anymore in this day and age.

Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. Lots of the accusations against China like human rights or military aggression tend to be hypocritical because the real fear about China stems from fears about a competitor on the global stage, a rival, because its human nature for tribes to compete for scarce resources and that triggers a fearful instinct when another tribe is growing in power or influence in any field. The fact that you claim China's very existence poses a threat to "your culture" is proof of my point because you believe the very existence of Chinese culture is in and of itself a threat, which is at its core a racially-tribalistic instinct of yours, no different from when a Chinese blogger rants online about "Western culture" invading China. It's the same racial instinct there too.

In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


Which is garbage. The West was afraid of the Soviet Union, not on racial grounds. When a country with a completely incompatible political system is a growing threat, you confront it regardless of race.

Also you do not realize how badly the PRC damaged the US. Trade with the PRC caused a greater manufacturing loss than the Great Depression!
So are you surprised those 5 million who lost their jobs are furious?!
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Neko-koku
Minister
 
Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:20 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Neko-koku wrote:
You can't claim that racism is evil and at the same time be racist in another context (Africa). That's essentially the same mistake antisemitic WNs have commited. Anything they say about browns can be used by Jews against whites. Anything they say about Jews can be used by browns against whites...simply by changing tribe names.

I'm consistent. Because the NE Asian race is a great race we deserve to be proud colonists just like white colonists before us. Colonialism and racism are good.


But I'm not saying racism is evil, I explicitly said the opposite. Racial tribalism is a natural and normal human instinct, derived over centuries of natural selection and competition between races and tribes over that same period. I think it's acceptable and in fact beautiful to have a deeply-rooted racial identity and to want to advance the interest of your racial tribe and defend its interests against enemies and outsiders who seek, innately and biologically, to destroy and wipe out your people off the face of the Earth.


OK. However you should get over anticolonialism. We are good. Why support anti-colonialism like a weak guy?
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:21 pm

Neko-koku wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
No, I actually said the following:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics. "


Since racial tribalism is normal you should know that it can't harm the great NE Asian race in the long run. We are Siberian Tigers. We rule. The fact that Lions rule somewhere else have nothing to do with us.


Nothing in human history is written down in stone. Races rise and fall and while the biological traits of each race play a role in who triumphs and who falls, nothing is fated or inevitable. Peoples fall and civilisations collapse for unforeseen reasons all the time, and while I agree with you here I fear that we've become too complacent and many ethnic Chinese don't understand the danger we are in unless we are willing to unite in the face of those in the world who would want us all destroyed or killed off or wiped off the Earth.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:22 pm

Novus America wrote:
Heloin wrote:In so many words your whole argument is basically the people criticising China are racist.


Which is garbage. The West was afraid of the Soviet Union, not on racial grounds. When a country with a completely incompatible political system is a growing threat, you confront it regardless of race.

Also you do not realize how badly the PRC damaged the US. Trade with the PRC caused a greater manufacturing loss than the Great Depression!
So are you surprised those 5 million who lost their jobs are furious?!


Except if you read my actual post I was actually arguing the opposite. I wasn't saying every criticism of China is racist, I was saying the opposite. This is Heloin misrepresenting my argument and you buying into it.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:25 pm

Neko-koku wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
But I'm not saying racism is evil, I explicitly said the opposite. Racial tribalism is a natural and normal human instinct, derived over centuries of natural selection and competition between races and tribes over that same period. I think it's acceptable and in fact beautiful to have a deeply-rooted racial identity and to want to advance the interest of your racial tribe and defend its interests against enemies and outsiders who seek, innately and biologically, to destroy and wipe out your people off the face of the Earth.


OK. However you should get over anticolonialism. We are good. Why support anti-colonialism like a weak guy?


I'm not anticolonial, what gave you that impression?
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Heloin
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Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:25 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Which is garbage. The West was afraid of the Soviet Union, not on racial grounds. When a country with a completely incompatible political system is a growing threat, you confront it regardless of race.

Also you do not realize how badly the PRC damaged the US. Trade with the PRC caused a greater manufacturing loss than the Great Depression!
So are you surprised those 5 million who lost their jobs are furious?!


Except if you read my actual post I was actually arguing the opposite. I wasn't saying every criticism of China is racist, I was saying the opposite. This is Heloin misrepresenting my argument and you buying into it.

That was me accurately summarising you're wordy dance around what you meant. If you want to claim I'm actively misrepresenting you then you can think that all you want, doesn't make it true.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:26 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Except if you read my actual post I was actually arguing the opposite. I wasn't saying every criticism of China is racist, I was saying the opposite. This is Heloin misrepresenting my argument and you buying into it.

That was me accurately summarising you're wordy dance around what you meant. If you want to claim I'm actively misrepresenting you then you can think that all you want, doesn't make it true.


Again, these were my words:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics."
Last edited by Purgatio on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Tombradyonia
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Founded: Jul 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tombradyonia » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:31 pm

Greater Loegria wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Of course the West doesn't care about human rights, after all the unlawful invasions they've committed, counter-terrorist camps are nothing.

Of all the civilisations to have ever existed, that of Western Christendom has probably been the ‘most’ concerned about human rights.


Western civilization is 'most' concerned about human rights despite christianity, not because of it. The church resisted reform all the way and is still the strongest retrograde force around in the west.

And there wasn't so much concern for such rights before 1914 when the west was essentially robbing the rest of the world blind.

If (which I don't think will happen) China intervenes in HK, there will be no more than some "going-through-the-motions" formal protests coming from the west.
Inverted Flag Law: US Code Title 4 Section 8 Paragraph (a): The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
The United States of America has been in a state of dire distress since November 8, 2016. Flying the flag upside down is not only our right, it is our duty!
Make Maine Massachusetts again!
Either you are with the United States of America, or you are with Donald Trump

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Heloin
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:35 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Heloin wrote:That was me accurately summarising you're wordy dance around what you meant. If you want to claim I'm actively misrepresenting you then you can think that all you want, doesn't make it true.


Again, these were my words:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics."

Right before that.
Purgatio wrote:Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power.

What other way can this be read? If you need to post a massive disclaimer that you calling those critical of China racist is not in fact you doing so right after doing so then you should not have written this point.

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Purgatio
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Founded: May 18, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby Purgatio » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:37 pm

Heloin wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
Again, these were my words:

"I'm not saying this is a bad thing, racial tribalism is a normal human instinct, in fact I believe its human nature and centuries of global, international racial conflict have bred a comeptitive spirit in all of us, encourages us to improve the species and our societies and not grow slack or complacent, so don't get me wrong I'm not using 'racial tribalism' as a slur to dismiss accusations against China as racist. Quite the opposite, I'm trying to reflect the reality of international politics."

Right before that.
Purgatio wrote:Most of the criticisms of China arise out of racial and tribalistic fears, the notion of a non-white country rising in economic power.

What other way can this be read? If you need to post a massive disclaimer that you calling those critical of China racist is not in fact you doing so right after doing so then you should not have written this point.


Except I wasn't saying that critically. I wasn't saying "people who criticise China are evil racists who hate all Chinese people" I was saying that we are all inherently tribalistic as a species, and when a non-white country rises in power, threatening to displace the economic dominance of a white-majority country, tribalistic fears and instincts kick in, but that's not a bad thing. I think it's a good and natural aspect of our species to be tribalistic and to compete with one another.
Purgatio is an absolutist hereditary monarchy run as a one-party fascist dictatorship, which seized power in a sudden and abrupt coup d'état of 1987-1988, on an authoritarian eugenic and socially Darwinistic political philosophy and ideology, now ruled and dominated with a brutal iron fist under the watchful reign of Le Grand Roi Chalon-Arlay de la Fayette and La Grande Reine Geneviève de la Fayette (née Aumont) (i.e., the 'Founding Couple' or Le Couple Fondateur).

For a domestic Purgation 'propagandist' view of its role in the world, see: An Introduction to Purgatio.

And for a more 'objective' international perspective on Purgatio's history, culture, and politics, see: A Brief Overview of the History, Politics, and Culture of Le Royaume du Nettoyage de la Purgatio.

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Tombradyonia
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Posts: 898
Founded: Jul 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tombradyonia » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Heloin wrote:
Neko-koku wrote:I'm actually very happy about the fact that Africans hate China. If China democratizes I hope not even one yuan will be used to aid Africa and not even one Chinese girl will be married to Africa.

I know you're a little racist but Africa is still insanely resource rich.


And the west profits from that by keeping former colonies prisoner to the west's interests via IMF and World Bank imposing disastrous policies. Why a small elite there is rich and the rest remains dirt poor: western iron stronghold to monopolize those resources. Which is why the west supports so many of those pseudo democracies that are really dictatorships or presidential monarchies.
Inverted Flag Law: US Code Title 4 Section 8 Paragraph (a): The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
The United States of America has been in a state of dire distress since November 8, 2016. Flying the flag upside down is not only our right, it is our duty!
Make Maine Massachusetts again!
Either you are with the United States of America, or you are with Donald Trump

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Neko-koku
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Posts: 3234
Founded: Jul 29, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Neko-koku » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:48 pm

Purgatio wrote:
Neko-koku wrote:
Since racial tribalism is normal you should know that it can't harm the great NE Asian race in the long run. We are Siberian Tigers. We rule. The fact that Lions rule somewhere else have nothing to do with us.


Nothing in human history is written down in stone. Races rise and fall and while the biological traits of each race play a role in who triumphs and who falls, nothing is fated or inevitable. Peoples fall and civilisations collapse for unforeseen reasons all the time, and while I agree with you here I fear that we've become too complacent and many ethnic Chinese don't understand the danger we are in unless we are willing to unite in the face of those in the world who would want us all destroyed or killed off or wiped off the Earth.


Of course..and we are rising.

What I care about the most at the moment is to learn good traits from Ashkenazis and Germanics such as individualism and high innovation rate as much as possible because I believe they are in serious trouble and that these traits are in danger of disappearing which will harm humanity as a species.
Last edited by Neko-koku on Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We are mutant Japanese kitty cats that have taken over a post-human world which was destroyed due to human hatred towards other humans.

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