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Hong Kong

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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In retrospect..

The UK was right to handover HK to China
231
16%
The UK should have kept HK
289
20%
The UK should have set up HK as an independent, democratic state
870
60%
Other
58
4%
 
Total votes : 1448

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Bombadil
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Posts: 18715
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:29 pm

Well I'm sure Xi Jinping would be very flattered to be compared with Augustus Caesar, I'm sure it reflects his ambitions for power.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39292
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:35 pm

Bombadil wrote:Well I'm sure Xi Jinping would be very flattered to be compared with Augustus Caesar, I'm sure it reflects his ambitions for power.


I’ve yet to decide if he’s worthy of the comparison

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Bombadil
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Posts: 18715
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Well I'm sure Xi Jinping would be very flattered to be compared with Augustus Caesar, I'm sure it reflects his ambitions for power.


I’ve yet to decide if he’s worthy of the comparison


I'm sure he awaits your judgment with baited breath.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

十年

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:13 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Great Swedish Empire wrote:I think that storming and vandalizing the legislative building was a mistake. Clearly the government wanted this. Why else would the police give up after minimal effort? The protesters are playing right into their hands.


The government exercised way more restraint than I would have had in dealing with these protestors

I have to give them that

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Heloin
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26091
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:38 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Literally overthrow the Roman Republic and proclaimed himself Caesar.


Because they murdered Caesar

Augustus’ reign was a time of prosperity and peace

You really need to read up on your roman history.

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Novus America
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Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:50 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Bombadil wrote:Xi Jinping's in an interesting place, while he's certainly taken unprecedented control, he's made more than enough enemies given some 1.34M officials have been punished under anti-corruption laws including powerful 'tigers' along with the many 'flies'.

And Xi has potentially further destabilized the system by crowning himself with 10 titles, including head of state, head of military, general secretary of the CCP, and leader of the new “leading groups” to oversee internet policy, national security, military reform, and Taiwan policy. He has effectively taken over the courts, the police, the secret internal paramilitary, and other agencies of internal control. This means that all successes and failures are Xi’s alone. He has no doubt made powerful enemies among the elites, who stand at the ready to undermine him should the opportunity arise.

I mean.. it's got so bad that..

In August the head of the anti-graft committee for China’s Ministry of Finance was himself put under investigation for suspected graft.

I doubt it for now but there may come the time when Xi oddly disappears due to 'ill health' and a new leadership takes control.


So he’s big on anti corruption?

Isn’t that a good thing?


No. He is corrupt as Hell himself.
He is big on tossing his rivals in prison on politicized charges.

Admittedly most his rivals in the CCP are actually corrupt.
When you create a system in which everyone is a criminal, you can arrest anyone and selective enforcement becomes a primary tool of crushing your opponents.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:24 am

Novus America wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
So he’s big on anti corruption?

Isn’t that a good thing?


No. He is corrupt as Hell himself.
He is big on tossing his rivals in prison on politicized charges.

Admittedly most his rivals in the CCP are actually corrupt.
When you create a system in which everyone is a criminal, you can arrest anyone and selective enforcement becomes a primary tool of crushing your opponents.

Indeed. When someone who is corrupt imprisons others who are corrupt, in a system that is corrupt, you have to ask yourself: what is the net gain?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Novasamita
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Novasamita » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:28 am

Technically, Taiwanshould've been given Hong Kong, since they technically are the real China, just exiled on Formosa. Also, I think that China has to stop interfering with HK affairs, every election, "Beijing-approved candidate times 10". China has to stop. And I mean STOP. Not only infuencing HK politics, but also taking control of a certain island chain in the south
Last edited by Novasamita on Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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No State Here
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1590
Founded: Jun 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby No State Here » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:02 am

China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And commies need to gtfo of China, RoC was just extremely unlucky during the civil war
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:44 am

No State Here wrote:China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And East Turkestan
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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129707
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:53 am

No State Here wrote:China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And commies need to gtfo of China, RoC was just extremely unlucky during the civil war

The roc was corrupt and inefficient.

And who exactly do you propose that is going to make the PRC get out.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:10 pm

Novasamita wrote:Technically, Taiwanshould've been given Hong Kong, since they technically are the real China, just exiled on Formosa. Also, I think that China has to stop interfering with HK affairs, every election, "Beijing-approved candidate times 10". China has to stop. And I mean STOP. Not only infuencing HK politics, but also taking control of a certain island chain in the south


The Republic of China is the rightful heir.

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Shwegu
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Mar 31, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Shwegu » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:44 pm

Nakena wrote:
Novasamita wrote:Technically, Taiwanshould've been given Hong Kong, since they technically are the real China, just exiled on Formosa. Also, I think that China has to stop interfering with HK affairs, every election, "Beijing-approved candidate times 10". China has to stop. And I mean STOP. Not only infuencing HK politics, but also taking control of a certain island chain in the south


The Republic of China is the rightful heir.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-JkoqROEKM

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Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:06 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
No State Here wrote:China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And commies need to gtfo of China, RoC was just extremely unlucky during the civil war

The roc was corrupt and inefficient.

And who exactly do you propose that is going to make the PRC get out.

A lot of dead people.
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No State Here
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Founded: Jun 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby No State Here » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:45 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
No State Here wrote:China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And commies need to gtfo of China, RoC was just extremely unlucky during the civil war

The roc was corrupt and inefficient.

RoC still exists today and is the freest place in the region, much like South Korea, it started off as a corrupt regime but ended up modernizing
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Ethel mermania
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Posts: 129707
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:10 pm

No State Here wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:The roc was corrupt and inefficient.

RoC still exists today and is the freest place in the region, much like South Korea, it started off as a corrupt regime but ended up modernizing

That didnt help much in 1949.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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EastKekistan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1555
Founded: Jun 30, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby EastKekistan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:16 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
No State Here wrote:RoC still exists today and is the freest place in the region, much like South Korea, it started off as a corrupt regime but ended up modernizing

That didnt help much in 1949.

Right. The problem here is how to boot the commies?
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Infected Mushroom
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Posts: 39292
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:32 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Novus America wrote:
No. He is corrupt as Hell himself.
He is big on tossing his rivals in prison on politicized charges.

Admittedly most his rivals in the CCP are actually corrupt.
When you create a system in which everyone is a criminal, you can arrest anyone and selective enforcement becomes a primary tool of crushing your opponents.

Indeed. When someone who is corrupt imprisons others who are corrupt, in a system that is corrupt, you have to ask yourself: what is the net gain?


I’m okay with the leader himself being just a bit corrupt so long as he shows himself able and willing to govern for the advancement of the country

For example, Vladimir Putin is one of the best leaders in the 20th-21st century

It remains to be seen what path Xi will walk

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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:36 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I’ve yet to decide if he’s worthy of the comparison


I'm sure he awaits your judgment with baited breath.


he probably wouldn't wanna be compared to caesar, considering Caesar got killed by his own senators in the end. His last words were "you too child?" As they stabbed him to Swiss cheese
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:38 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
No State Here wrote:China needs to gtfo of Hong Kong, same with Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Sinkiang

And East Turkestan


China is basically everywhere now. They have farms in africa, they're working on a 5G network for several nations in europe, they own businesses in america basically, they got troops on the ground in Venezuela and they militarily threaten those around them. Chinese world domination is only a few years away yall, we better learn mandarin now
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Rojava Free State
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19428
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:40 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Novus America wrote:
No. He is corrupt as Hell himself.
He is big on tossing his rivals in prison on politicized charges.

Admittedly most his rivals in the CCP are actually corrupt.
When you create a system in which everyone is a criminal, you can arrest anyone and selective enforcement becomes a primary tool of crushing your opponents.

Indeed. When someone who is corrupt imprisons others who are corrupt, in a system that is corrupt, you have to ask yourself: what is the net gain?


Yes
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:56 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Indeed. When someone who is corrupt imprisons others who are corrupt, in a system that is corrupt, you have to ask yourself: what is the net gain?


I’m okay with the leader himself being just a bit corrupt so long as he shows himself able and willing to govern for the advancement of the country

For example, Vladimir Putin is one of the best leaders in the 20th-21st century

It remains to be seen what path Xi will walk

Explain to me how being involved in a foreign war supporting a dictator who's killing his own people is a sigh of a good leader.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:04 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I’m okay with the leader himself being just a bit corrupt so long as he shows himself able and willing to govern for the advancement of the country

For example, Vladimir Putin is one of the best leaders in the 20th-21st century

It remains to be seen what path Xi will walk

Explain to me how being involved in a foreign war supporting a dictator who's killing his own people is a sigh of a good leader.

Because the alternative is worse.

Look at Libya. We overthrew Gaddafi and plunged the country into anarchy. We overthrew Saddam and then ISIS took over a huge chunk of the country.

Removing despots rarely seems to end as well as we hope. Perhaps it's better to support the government and keep some semblance of order rather than supporting rebels with questionable intentions of their own.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129707
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:06 pm

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I’m okay with the leader himself being just a bit corrupt so long as he shows himself able and willing to govern for the advancement of the country

For example, Vladimir Putin is one of the best leaders in the 20th-21st century

It remains to be seen what path Xi will walk

Explain to me how being involved in a foreign war supporting a dictator who's killing his own people is a sigh of a good leader.

What is the standard living of the typical chinese citizen today vs 20 years ago
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

User avatar
El-Amin Caliphate
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15282
Founded: Apr 05, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:11 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Explain to me how being involved in a foreign war supporting a dictator who's killing his own people is a sigh of a good leader.

What is the standard living of the typical chinese citizen today vs 20 years ago

I was talking about IM's praise of Putin
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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