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Hong Kong

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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In retrospect..

The UK was right to handover HK to China
45
19%
The UK should have kept HK
61
26%
The UK should have set up HK as an independent, democratic state
115
49%
Other
14
6%
 
Total votes : 235

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Duhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2786
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:22 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:I too love unironically dreaming of a more Balkanized mainland. But even if just Hong Kong and Taiwan got their independence I'd be 10x happier.


And I’m telling you that’s a highly irresponsible point of view because millions will be killed for some lofty idea of Freedom


Which is more irresponsible: protesting knowing the risks involved, or shutting up till the kettle explodes?

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Bombadil
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Posts: 10004
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:23 pm

Some updates..

1. The second reading is not halted, it's only delayed to a later time and that could mean today or tomorrow or whenever though they're essentially determined to push it through on June 20th regardless.

2. 12:05PM
Road block
More than 100 protesters have moved more metal barricades to the eastbound lane of Queensway outside the High Court. A crowd is gradually building up, occupying the lane.


The fights I saw this morning were based around people moving barricades, that's where trouble will start. In Tamar Park it's relatively peaceful, it's the road area around Admiralty Centre and the High Courts that's contentious.
Last edited by Bombadil on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Cyberia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1521
Founded: May 06, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Why doesn't China just crown Xi as Emperor and get it over with already?
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.

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Kowani
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7405
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Ok... You just opened a completely different can of worms unrelated to this thread because I didn't think anyone would ever reasonably say yes to that question.


I believe European Empires brought a great deal of world stability

I prefer it to the new model of irresponsible “pro-freedom” imperialism used by countries like the USA where they enter, destabilize a country, and leave no functional government for a while

…Did you sleep through history class or something?
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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:25 pm

What I am additionally concerned about is the current CCP leadership. I do not believe this would have happened this way under lets say Jiang Zemin or so.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 3607
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:25 pm

China just needs to chill the fuck out already, it’s been 70 years now.

Infected Mushroom wrote:But on most other fronts, things are quite acceptable


You say that until they come for all the shows, movies, video games and websites you like and heavily censor or outright ban them completely.
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Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5002
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:26 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:Why doesn't China just crown Xi as Emperor and get it over with already?

Because they like the pretence that they aren't actually the Imperialistic Empire that they are.
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Bombadil
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Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:27 pm

Nakena wrote:What I am concerned about is the current CCP leadership. I do not believe this would have happened this way under lets say Jiang Zemin or so.


Yeah, we're going through the first iteration of the xiaohuangdi's of the original leadership gaining power, with all the entitlement and self-obsession that comes with that.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Nakena
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Posts: 1562
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:28 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:China just needs to chill the fuck out already, it’s been 70 years now.

Infected Mushroom wrote:But on most other fronts, things are quite acceptable


You say that until they come for all the shows, movies, video games and websites you like and heavily censor or outright ban them completely.


Thats exactly what I am saying. Because this is what happens under totalitarian Xi-China.

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Duhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2786
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:29 pm


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Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25098
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:30 pm

Duhon wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
And I’m telling you that’s a highly irresponsible point of view because millions will be killed for some lofty idea of Freedom


Which is more irresponsible: protesting knowing the risks involved, or shutting up till the kettle explodes?


Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 3607
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Which is more irresponsible: protesting knowing the risks involved, or shutting up till the kettle explodes?


Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner

Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.
27 year old pansexual H. sapien male who enjoys heavy metal and the classic PS1 Resident Evil games.

Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.

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User avatar
Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5002
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Which is more irresponsible: protesting knowing the risks involved, or shutting up till the kettle explodes?


Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner

Protests are a side effect of bigger problems, not people actively trying to make things worse.
An Africa Free From Hate
I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this - Desmond Tutu

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too. TET Disc Jockey.
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

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Bombadil
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10004
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Democratic Party member Wu Chi-wai again calls for Carrie Lam to shelve the bill at a press conference. "I hope within the day, she can retract the bill," Wu says.
He also warns that the protest could escalate if the government fails to respond.
"More and more Hongkongers are willing to pay any price to stop the bill."
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Nakena
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1562
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:31 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Nakena wrote:What I am concerned about is the current CCP leadership. I do not believe this would have happened this way under lets say Jiang Zemin or so.


Yeah, we're going through the first iteration of the xiaohuangdi's of the original leadership gaining power, with all the entitlement and self-obsession that comes with that.


If that is so then it is one more reason for this;

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner

Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25098
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:32 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner

Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.


There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Kowani
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7405
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:33 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.


There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism

That one really depends on where you are.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist. Go beyond.
Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Neanderthaland wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Contraception can't fail if you don't have sex in term no unwanted pregnancy.

Your entire religion is based on the idea that this isn't true.

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Nakena
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1562
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:33 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.


There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism


Are you sure about this? After all it is you who's at the frontline.

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Duhon
Minister
 
Posts: 2786
Founded: Nov 21, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Duhon » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:34 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Which is more irresponsible: protesting knowing the risks involved, or shutting up till the kettle explodes?


Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner


Whatever complaints you may have won't go away. They're bound to build up -- too much of it and you explode. Too much quashing of dissent and things explode, revolts happen, shit gets real.

Protesting, in contrast, is there to let off some steam while rudely informing those in power that you are not alright.

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Pasong Tirad
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8754
Founded: May 31, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Pasong Tirad » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:35 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.


There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

Also:

>social credit scores dictate quality of life
>rising inequality
>lack of political and civil freedoms such as freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, not even free and open elections
>millions of uighurs and tibetans constantly oppressed for being uighur and tibetan
>political crackdown in hong kong because hong kong doesn't want to be ruled by Beijing

"mild authoritarianism"

I've seen mild authoritarianism. I've lived it. This ain't it.
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Tuthina
Senator
 
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Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Libertarian Police State

Postby Tuthina » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:35 pm

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Protesting is in effect daring the kettle to explode sooner

Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.

Maybe, but I doubt many would like to be in the kettle when it explodes, so to speak.
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Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25098
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:36 pm

Nakena wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism


Are you sure about this? After all it is you who's at the frontline.


If it were a totalitarian state then I’d be hearing whispers everywhere about friends, relatives, acquaintances vanishing or being mysteriously detained

I’d see a lot more military uniforms around

Word from my contacts through China tell me things are still quite chill
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5002
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:36 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Good, totalitarianism in China needs to die ASAP.


There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism

Rich China is mildly authoritarian cause you don't want to scare away foreign monies. the rest of China ranges from totalitarian to concentration camps.
An Africa Free From Hate
I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this - Desmond Tutu

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too. TET Disc Jockey.
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25098
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:37 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
There is no totalitarianism in China, at best it’s mild authoritarianism

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

Also:

>social credit scores dictate quality of life
>rising inequality
>lack of political and civil freedoms such as freedom of assembly and freedom of speech, not even free and open elections
>millions of uighurs and tibetans constantly oppressed for being uighur and tibetan
>political crackdown in hong kong because hong kong doesn't want to be ruled by Beijing

"mild authoritarianism"

I've seen mild authoritarianism. I've lived it. This ain't it.


Then what to you is mild authoritarianism?
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5002
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:37 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Are you sure about this? After all it is you who's at the frontline.


If it were a totalitarian state then I’d be hearing whispers everywhere about friends, relatives, acquaintances vanishing or being mysteriously detained

I’d see a lot more military uniforms around

Word from my contacts through China tell me things are still quite chill

East Turkestan.
An Africa Free From Hate
I would not worship a God who is homophobic and that is how deeply I feel about this - Desmond Tutu

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too. TET Disc Jockey.
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

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