Hong Kong

[Sovaal]

Sure, because doing that to Hong Kong would totally not piss off China in any way, shape, or form. Especially since the US trades more with China now than they did with the USSR during the Berlin Airlift.

I can't see what could possibly go wrong with such a scenario.

Cut trade with China. Fund independence groups in China. Recognize Taiwan and Tibet as independent nations and recognize all Indian claims in Chinese territory.

We really need to stop fearing China

And none of that is going to happen. The PRC frankly to well entrenched in modern global politics. Nobody is coming to save Hong Kong.

[Aureumterra]

[Bombadil]

Cut trade with China. Fund independence groups in China. Recognize Taiwan and Tibet as independent nations and recognize all Indian claims in Chinese territory.

We really need to stop fearing China

And none of that is going to happen. The PRC frankly to well entrenched in modern global politics. Nobody is coming to save Hong Kong.

Yep, it has great fans everywhere and and while we can choose how the future pans out.. for now.. it's not for long.

China’s mass detention and surveillance of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang province came under fire at the United Nations Tuesday, with 23 nations — mostly western — backing a British statement condemning Beijing’s human rights record.

But China’s allies countered with a statement of their own that won even broader support, with some 54 nations backing a Belarus text that heaped effusive praise on Beijing’s “remarkable achievements in the field of human rights.”

They included Pakistan, Russia, Egypt, Bolivia, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Serbia — which have all been criticised for their own rights records.

Link

[Infected Mushroom]

Do you think the protestors will do something dramatic on Halloween?

Today is Halloween in HK. I've just received a text/announcements from MTR authority that they are on "high alert" (because of Halloween) and several stations have been preemptively stopped.

If the protestors start something in the early afternoon, then maybe everyone would get sent home.

Just maybe.

Though its a weekday and presumable most of them won't skip school to start some trouble. But its Halloween so who knows (I think it was just yesterday that they launched something at three major HK universities).

[Tuthina]

Do you think the protestors will do something dramatic on Halloween?

Today is Halloween in HK. I've just received a text/announcements from MTR authority that they are on "high alert" (because of Halloween) and several stations have been preemptively stopped.

If the protestors start something in the early afternoon, then maybe everyone would get sent home.

Just maybe.

Though its a weekday and presumable most of them won't skip school to start some trouble. But its Halloween so who knows (I think it was just yesterday that they launched something at three major HK universities).

We're just planning to go trick or treating before enjoying the festive mood in Lan Kwai Fong together. The real question is whether the police will do something dramatic.

[Bombadil]

Do you think the protestors will do something dramatic on Halloween?

Today is Halloween in HK. I've just received a text/announcements from MTR authority that they are on "high alert" (because of Halloween) and several stations have been preemptively stopped.

If the protestors start something in the early afternoon, then maybe everyone would get sent home.

Just maybe.

Though its a weekday and presumable most of them won't skip school to start some trouble. But its Halloween so who knows (I think it was just yesterday that they launched something at three major HK universities).

I think there's certainly a possibility. The police are certainly preparing for it.

Meanwhile..

“We collectively need to confront these challenges from [China] head-on – in all their many facets.

“It is no longer realistic to ignore the fundamental differences between our two systems, and the impact that these differences may have on the United States.”

After joking about how the explosive remarks marked a departure from the norm in traditional American foreign policy, Pompeo continued: “We’ve been slow to see the risk China poses to American national security because we wanted friendship with the People’s Republic from the very start. We still hope for it.

“But, in our efforts to achieve this goal, we accommodated and encouraged China’s rise for decades – even at the expense of American values, and security, and good sense.

“We did everything we could to accommodate China’s rise, in the hope that Communist China would become more free, market-driven, and ultimately, hopefully, more democratic.

“We did this for a long time.”

..and perhaps now it's time to stop.

[Infected Mushroom]

Do you think the protestors will do something dramatic on Halloween?

Today is Halloween in HK. I've just received a text/announcements from MTR authority that they are on "high alert" (because of Halloween) and several stations have been preemptively stopped.

If the protestors start something in the early afternoon, then maybe everyone would get sent home.

Just maybe.

Though its a weekday and presumable most of them won't skip school to start some trouble. But its Halloween so who knows (I think it was just yesterday that they launched something at three major HK universities).

I think there's certainly a possibility. The police are certainly preparing for it.

Meanwhile..

“We collectively need to confront these challenges from [China] head-on – in all their many facets.

“It is no longer realistic to ignore the fundamental differences between our two systems, and the impact that these differences may have on the United States.”

After joking about how the explosive remarks marked a departure from the norm in traditional American foreign policy, Pompeo continued: “We’ve been slow to see the risk China poses to American national security because we wanted friendship with the People’s Republic from the very start. We still hope for it.

“But, in our efforts to achieve this goal, we accommodated and encouraged China’s rise for decades – even at the expense of American values, and security, and good sense.

“We did everything we could to accommodate China’s rise, in the hope that Communist China would become more free, market-driven, and ultimately, hopefully, more democratic.

“We did this for a long time.”

..and perhaps now it's time to stop.

The USA isn't going to do anything. They are paralyzed by their own system of government. The only logical outcome is that they do nothing.

You've incentivized an entire class of rulers to focus on winning elections and the way you win them is by focusing on short-term economic interests while paying politically correct lip service to ideals. That's what is rewarded in the US system. Any and all idealists are lost in the cracks of the overly complicated system that's been set up.

There's no expected political gain (with respect to elections) for anyone to go against China. There's nothing to be gained from shaking up the playing field. It doesn't matter whether or not the USA could adapt in 10 years to be in a better place... what matters is that they will IMMEDIATELY be worse off and that the voters (even who SAY they want to oppose China) will turn against them in elections.

If the economy suffers in the short term, you will lose votes... even from the people who are saying now (and they are few anyways) "we are willing to make some sacrifices economically in the short term." Voters are self-contradictory people who "don't know what they really want."

This is why democracy can't handle problems like environmental destruction and confrontations that require a great degree of economic sacrifice/re-adjustment. It's self defeating in that respect. You've got everything "balanced" but that also means that the Inertia is huge.

[Infected Mushroom]

It may not be politically correct to say so, but sometimes there are problems that democracies are simply ill equipped to handle.

And what is REALLY needed (though the people may not admit it) is for someone with the right mindset and ideals to take charge of things, be given lots and lots of guns and soldiers, and then go about implementing things not for what the people want but what they NEED.

You expect the voters to vote against their collective short term economic self interest and start thinking not in the next 3-4 years but in terms of 20-30 year intervals? Good luck.

Someone should just say to the masses "You know what? SHUT THE HELL UP! You don't know what you want or need. I'm taking charge."

You want to know why the West isn't opposing China on this? It's not because they aren't democratic enough, its because they are too democratic. They've evolved into a system where their rulers are optimized not for actual governance but rather vote-seeking behavior.

[Bombadil]

Anyhoo..

Meanwhile on LIHKG and Telegram channels are a host of designers who will turn around poster messaging for free. Some of it is pretty good, and I feel I could make money with a nice coffee table book titled - Posters of the Revolution..

An example

Perhaps with your art you can pitch in IM..

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

It may not be politically correct to say so, but sometimes there are problems that democracies are simply ill equipped to handle.

And what is REALLY needed (though the people may not admit it) is for someone with the right mindset and ideals to take charge of things, be given lots and lots of guns and soldiers, and then go about implementing things not for what the people want but what they NEED.

You expect the voters to vote against their collective short term economic self interest and start thinking not in the next 3-4 years but in terms of 20-30 year intervals? Good luck.

Someone should just say to the masses "You know what? SHUT THE HELL UP! You don't know what you want or need. I'm taking charge."

You want to know why the West isn't opposing China on this? It's not because they aren't democratic enough, its because they are too democratic. They've evolved into a system where their rulers are optimized not for actual governance but rather vote-seeking behavior.

Posted by Infected Mushrooms:
And what is REALLY needed (though the people may not admit it) is for someone with the right mindset and ideals to take charge of things, be given lots and lots of guns and soldiers, and then go about implementing things not for what the people want but what they NEED.

You mean like in Cuba. Fidel said the main duty of the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution the CDRs, is to be the legs, arms, hands, eyes and ears of the revolution. I used to live 3 houses down from the head of the CDR in my neighborhood ?

While the Cuban Communist Socialist leaders keep demanding socialist sacrifices from the Cuban People for the revolution like from my family still in Cuba and live like rich capitalists, they need to live like:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1134785

The Cuban regime, Raúl and Diaz-Canel say, we are the continuity of the Revolution?

[Northern Davincia]

It may not be politically correct to say so, but sometimes there are problems that democracies are simply ill equipped to handle.

And what is REALLY needed (though the people may not admit it) is for someone with the right mindset and ideals to take charge of things, be given lots and lots of guns and soldiers, and then go about implementing things not for what the people want but what they NEED.

You expect the voters to vote against their collective short term economic self interest and start thinking not in the next 3-4 years but in terms of 20-30 year intervals? Good luck.

Someone should just say to the masses "You know what? SHUT THE HELL UP! You don't know what you want or need. I'm taking charge."

You want to know why the West isn't opposing China on this? It's not because they aren't democratic enough, its because they are too democratic. They've evolved into a system where their rulers are optimized not for actual governance but rather vote-seeking behavior.

And how do rulers know what the people need more than the people themselves?

[Hanxia]

It may not be politically correct to say so, but sometimes there are problems that democracies are simply ill equipped to handle.

And what is REALLY needed (though the people may not admit it) is for someone with the right mindset and ideals to take charge of things, be given lots and lots of guns and soldiers, and then go about implementing things not for what the people want but what they NEED.

You expect the voters to vote against their collective short term economic self interest and start thinking not in the next 3-4 years but in terms of 20-30 year intervals? Good luck.

Someone should just say to the masses "You know what? SHUT THE HELL UP! You don't know what you want or need. I'm taking charge."

You want to know why the West isn't opposing China on this? It's not because they aren't democratic enough, its because they are too democratic. They've evolved into a system where their rulers are optimized not for actual governance but rather vote-seeking behavior.

And how do rulers know what the people need more than the people themselves?

You have Catholic in signature. How do Catholic rulers (pope, bishops, priests) know what the people need more than the people themselves?

Unlike the masses, whose members are inward-looking (benefit for the self), the rulers have the time and pressure to look at the big picture. Good leaders see big picture, bad leaders act like Trump.

[Necroghastia]

And how do rulers know what the people need more than the people themselves?

You have Catholic in signature. How do Catholic rulers (pope, bishops, priests) know what the people need more than the people themselves?

Unlike the masses, whose members are inward-looking (benefit for the self), the rulers have the time and pressure to look at the big picture. Good leaders see big picture, bad leaders act like Trump.

Bad leaders also throw temper tantrums over being compared to cartoon characters.

[Hanxia]

You have Catholic in signature. How do Catholic rulers (pope, bishops, priests) know what the people need more than the people themselves?

Unlike the masses, whose members are inward-looking (benefit for the self), the rulers have the time and pressure to look at the big picture. Good leaders see big picture, bad leaders act like Trump.

Bad leaders also throw temper tantrums over being compared to cartoon characters.

The cartoon character was prohibited because sociopathic elements were exploiting it (the cartoon) for anti-social operations. Western media make it seem like our President couldn’t handle a joke. But then Western media is trustworthy, is it not?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Bad leaders also throw temper tantrums over being compared to cartoon characters.

The cartoon character was prohibited because sociopathic elements were exploiting it (the cartoon) for anti-social operations.

Yes, they were comparing Xi to Pooh Bear, which is an innocuous joke. Which was banned because the CCP can't stand having its leaders being made fun of.

[Relikai]

Sure, because doing that to Hong Kong would totally not piss off China in any way, shape, or form. Especially since the US trades more with China now than they did with the USSR during the Berlin Airlift.

I can't see what could possibly go wrong with such a scenario.

Would China really be willing to launch nukes and completely annihilate human life on Earth for one single port city that is completely different from their culture and way of life?

Not sure about that but we saw the West invade a country based on phony reports of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

[Bombadil]

Bad leaders also throw temper tantrums over being compared to cartoon characters.

The cartoon character was prohibited because sociopathic elements were exploiting it (the cartoon) for anti-social operations. Western media make it seem like our President couldn’t handle a joke. But then Western media is trustworthy, is it not?

Haha.. when making fun of Xi Jinping automatically equates to sociopaths exploiting for anti-social reasons..

He's an entitled, thin-skinned princeling whose only focus is his own legacy.

[Hanxia]

The cartoon character was prohibited because sociopathic elements were exploiting it (the cartoon) for anti-social operations.

Yes, they were comparing Xi to Pooh Bear, which is an innocuous joke. Which was banned because the CCP can't stand having its leaders being made fun of.

That’s the type of childish Western reason. After the first comparisons/jokes were made (these were tolerated for some time), the bear then became a euphemism for the President (visual code) in communications by criminal elements working against the state. By censoring the bear, these dangerous sociopaths have been deprived of yet another tool in their attempts to sabotage our society.

[Relikai]

Only if someone else attacks China with nuclear weapons first. Remember the No First Fuse rule.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use

I doubt that the Chinese would follow that if they where about to lose a hypothetical war.

Anyone would be prepared to do so.

Pakistan and India openly showcasing their ability to use them if need be.

Israel fueling Jericho missiles and readying their nuclear-capable F-4s during the Yom Kippur War when Syria was on the verge of breaking past the heights.

Weapons are ultimately there to be used. However the timing of application is what describes someone in the history books.

[Hanxia]

Would China really be willing to launch nukes and completely annihilate human life on Earth for one single port city that is completely different from their culture and way of life?

Not sure about that but we saw the West invade a country based on phony reports of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Quite right. The West doesn’t need enemies with its self-destructive behaviour

[Hanxia]

Would China really be willing to launch nukes and completely annihilate human life on Earth for one single port city that is completely different from their culture and way of life?

Not sure about that but we saw the West invade a country based on phony reports of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Quite right. The West doesn’t need enemies with its self-destructive behaviour

[Relikai]

Yes, they were comparing Xi to Pooh Bear, which is an innocuous joke. Which was banned because the CCP can't stand having its leaders being made fun of.

That’s the type of childish Western reason. After the first comparisons/jokes were made (these were tolerated for some time), the bear then became a euphemism for the President (visual code) in communications by criminal elements working against the state. By censoring the bear, these dangerous sociopaths have been deprived of yet another tool in their attempts to sabotage our society.

Perhaps it's the deeper underlying factors behind the banning which was never reported by the Western Media that causes misunderstandings to happen. Visual coding in communications is something that is hard for people to actually understand the seriousness of, and given how it's the PRC doing that, they tend to quickly jump to conclusions instead of using critical thinking in their judgement.

Remember that Western Media is always trustworthy to users here, no matter what they add/omit.

I mean it's hard to find fault with those who only consume western media because they didn't report it. Would hurt their anti-PRC reliability credentials.

Sad that Pooh is banned tho, since it is a good source of children literature.

[Necroghastia]

Yes, they were comparing Xi to Pooh Bear, which is an innocuous joke. Which was banned because the CCP can't stand having its leaders being made fun of.

That’s the type of childish Western reason. After the first comparisons/jokes were made (these were tolerated for some time), the bear then became a euphemism for the President (visual code) in communications by criminal elements working against the state. By censoring the bear, these dangerous sociopaths have been deprived of yet another tool in their attempts to sabotage our society.

Source?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

That’s the type of childish Western reason. After the first comparisons/jokes were made (these were tolerated for some time), the bear then became a euphemism for the President (visual code) in communications by criminal elements working against the state. By censoring the bear, these dangerous sociopaths have been deprived of yet another tool in their attempts to sabotage our society.

Perhaps it's the deeper underlying factors behind the banning which was never reported by the Western Media that causes misunderstandings to happen. Visual coding in communications is something that is hard for people to actually understand the seriousness of, and given how it's the PRC doing that, they tend to quickly jump to conclusions instead of using critical thinking in their judgement.

Remember that Western Media is always trustworthy to users here, no matter what they add/omit.

I mean it's hard to find fault with those who only consume western media because they didn't report it. Would hurt their anti-PRC reliability credentials.

Sad that Pooh is banned tho, since it is a good source of children literature.

Sure, if we reach far enough we can say that banning Winnie the Pooh is for the greater good of society and not because the CCP doesn't tolerate anything that is at its members' expense, regardless of how trivial it is.

[Relikai]

Perhaps it's the deeper underlying factors behind the banning which was never reported by the Western Media that causes misunderstandings to happen. Visual coding in communications is something that is hard for people to actually understand the seriousness of, and given how it's the PRC doing that, they tend to quickly jump to conclusions instead of using critical thinking in their judgement.

Remember that Western Media is always trustworthy to users here, no matter what they add/omit.

I mean it's hard to find fault with those who only consume western media because they didn't report it. Would hurt their anti-PRC reliability credentials.

Sad that Pooh is banned tho, since it is a good source of children literature.

Sure, if we reach far enough we can say that banning Winnie the Pooh is for the greater good of society and not because the CCP doesn't tolerate anything that is at its members' expense, regardless of how trivial it is.

Anything can happen if one decides to 'reach far enough'.

On an unrelated note, being in a camp which screams "freedom" while denying opposing sides their own freedom of speech and thought doesn't reflect that well on people except for those in their own circle I suppose.