Hong Kong

[Purgatio]

So its okay to smash windows and destroy public property because you're not happy about the government's present economic policies? You realise this argument is basically giving carte blanche to political terrorists, right? Any time you disagree with the government's policies in anything, no matter how big or small, you can vandalise buildings and attack law enforcement and drag bystanders into your rioting and your violence and your blocking of traffic, just because you don't like something. That's childish entitlement.

In Chinese history there was this term called "The Mantle of Heaven" which basically meant that the current government or ruling party was OK'ed by the gods, heaven, any omnipotent force they came up with, etc... Whenever said ruling power got too corrupt or out of hand then it was common for the people or lesser powers to rise up an claim that the main government had lost the mantle and needed to be replaced, sometimes violently, sometimes peacefully.

So if we're looking at this situation from a historically point of view, yes.

Yeah that's not how the Mandate of Heaven works. Its actually the opposite, the people don't get to individually decide whether the Mandate has been lost or not. It's not you waking up one day and saying 'I don't like my government, so I've decided its lost the Mandate of Heaven, now I don't have to obey the law anymore'.

In fact, the very nature of Confucian philosophy preaches the opposite of this kind of individualistic self-judgment, arrogating to yourself the right to unilaterally not obey the government at your choosing.

[New haven america]

In Chinese history there was this term called "The Mantle of Heaven" which basically meant that the current government or ruling party was OK'ed by the gods, heaven, any omnipotent force they came up with, etc... Whenever said ruling power got too corrupt or out of hand then it was common for the people or lesser powers to rise up an claim that the main government had lost the mantle and needed to be replaced, sometimes violently, sometimes peacefully.

So if we're looking at this situation from a historically point of view, yes.

Yeah that's not how the Mandate of Heaven works. Its actually the opposite, the people don't get to individually decide whether the Mandate has been lost or not. It's not you waking up one day and saying 'I don't like my government, so I've decided its lost the Mandate of Heaven, now I don't have to obey the law anymore'.

In fact, the very nature of Confucian philosophy preaches the opposite of this kind of individualistic self-judgment, arrogating to yourself the right to unilaterally not obey the government at your choosing.

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

[Purgatio]

Yeah that's not how the Mandate of Heaven works. Its actually the opposite, the people don't get to individually decide whether the Mandate has been lost or not. It's not you waking up one day and saying 'I don't like my government, so I've decided its lost the Mandate of Heaven, now I don't have to obey the law anymore'.

In fact, the very nature of Confucian philosophy preaches the opposite of this kind of individualistic self-judgment, arrogating to yourself the right to unilaterally not obey the government at your choosing.

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

[Neko-koku]

Yeah that's not how the Mandate of Heaven works. Its actually the opposite, the people don't get to individually decide whether the Mandate has been lost or not. It's not you waking up one day and saying 'I don't like my government, so I've decided its lost the Mandate of Heaven, now I don't have to obey the law anymore'.

In fact, the very nature of Confucian philosophy preaches the opposite of this kind of individualistic self-judgment, arrogating to yourself the right to unilaterally not obey the government at your choosing.

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

For now. PRC won't leave Singapore alone, nor will haters of Chinese people.

[New haven america]

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

If that's what you choose to believe then there's nothing I can do to stop you from thinking that, and I don't really care to either.

Again, you're lucky that you live in a society that allows you to be incorrect.

[Bombadil]

Yes, throughout history when the government is no longer seen to represent or provide for the people then revolution occurs. To be Chinese the government loses its 'mantle of heaven'.

People will generally suffer a lot before resorting to protests, and this isn't some small band of political terrorists given an estimated 1.7M people turned out to peacefully protest yesterday, despite heavy rainstorms, and with the backing of a good deal more.

That's 1.7M out of a population of 7.2M actually turning out to walk the streets. That's pretty extraordinary, I don't know if there's a similar ratio of protestors to the population seen before, anywhere.

I think when that number turns out then, as a government, you should make some attempt to listen to the concerns and act accordingly but that is not happening. And so the protests will continue.

This is all entirely at the feet of the HK government.

The large number of rioters out in the streets wrecking havoc and public crime and disorder should be viewed as a negative, not a positive. I don't think its 'extraordinary', I read what you write and it terrifies me that so many people in Hong Kong are willing to terrorise their own city and plunge it into lawless anarchy and commit vandalism and harassment.

Your continued description of largely peaceful protestors as vandals and harassers is categorically wrong. Certainly there are times when it spills over among a minority but for the great majority the protests are peacefully undertaken. So your sweeping characterisations, at this point, must be knowingly disingenuous.

Let's remember this is due to a police force that simply walked away when a bunch of triads attacked people at the Yuen Long MTR. This is also a police that dressed plain clothes leading to a heightened sense of fear that led to the clashes at the airport.

However personally I don't really blame the police, I absolutely blame a government that has shown itself to remain deaf to what's going on in the desperate hope it settles down and they can continue selling off HK to the detriment of the HK people.

[Neko-koku]

Purgatio, please just don't support CCP for your own sake.

If there has to be a WWIII we need to make it a war over Communism and authoritarianism, not an ethnic war. Otherwise Singapore is going to be depopulated and annexed into Malaysia.

[North German Realm]

Friendly reminder that cops are never victims when inside a protest.

[Neko-koku]

Friendly reminder that cops are never victims when inside a protest.

Yeppo.

[Rojava Free State]

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

The law is downright nightmarish if people are just gonna obey it without question and be mindless drones while their friends and family are arrested for thought crimes

[Neko-koku]

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

The law is downright nightmarish if people are just gonna obey it without question and be mindless drones while their friends and family are arrested for thought crimes

Do not ever underestimate the power of Sinostatism, the most extreme form of statism before 20th century Communism & Nazism.

[Neko-koku]

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

The law is downright nightmarish if people are just gonna obey it without question and be mindless drones while their friends and family are arrested for thought crimes

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River", Zhejiang (浙江) means "Qiantang River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma". Hell even colonial place names often have more culture retained than Chinese ones...which are often literally based on rivers, lakes, mountains etc, not people. From these dry place names you can discover a completely deracinated population with almost no organic identity at all.

[Tuthina]

The law is downright nightmarish if people are just gonna obey it without question and be mindless drones while their friends and family are arrested for thought crimes

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma".

To be fair, there's a reason why the poetic name for Chinese provinces is often its "abbreviated" name like Yu (豫, which interestingly enough means "large elephant"). Many modern province names are pretty descriptive, but they (barring border provinces that only became part of China relatively recently) generally have older names that are seen as being more poetic (even though they ultimately comes from pretty mundane things millennia ago).

[Neko-koku]

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma".

To be fair, there's a reason why the poetic name for Chinese provinces is often its "abbreviated" name like Yu (豫, which interestingly enough means "large elephant"). Many modern province names are pretty descriptive, but they generally have older names that are seen as being more poetic (even though they ultimately comes from pretty mundane things millennia ago).

Right. These are MUCH better. They often dated back to an earlier age when China was not THAT deracinated. From Qin to Communism statism strengthened over time and organic identity declined over time.

The current Chinese provinces are mostly of Mongol origins. Yet neither Ming nor ROC bothered to change it.

[Bombadil]

The law is downright nightmarish if people are just gonna obey it without question and be mindless drones while their friends and family are arrested for thought crimes

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma". Hell even colonial place names often have more culture retained than Chinese ones...which are often literally based on rivers, lakes, mountains etc, not people.

I don't know if that's fair, globally older names were pretty blandly descriptive.. Cambridge is the bridge over the River Cam, Oxford is the ford where ox can cross.

China culturally is more centred around food, and food names can be far more imbued with culture, such as Crossing the Bridge Noodles or Ants Climbing the Tree.

[Kowani]

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma". Hell even colonial place names often have more culture retained than Chinese ones...which are often literally based on rivers, lakes, mountains etc, not people.

I don't know if that's fair, globally older names were pretty blandly descriptive.. Cambridge is the bridge over the River Cam, Oxford is the ford where ox can cross.

China culturally is more centred around food, and food names can be far more imbued with culture, such as Crossing the Bridge Noodles or Ants Climbing the Tree.

Heck, my city is named Pomegranate. (Translated, anyway.)

[Neko-koku]

I don't know if that's fair, globally older names were pretty blandly descriptive.. Cambridge is the bridge over the River Cam, Oxford is the ford where ox can cross.

China culturally is more centred around food, and food names can be far more imbued with culture, such as Crossing the Bridge Noodles or Ants Climbing the Tree.

Heck, my city is named Pomegranate. (Translated, anyway.)

Which country is it in?

[Neko-koku]

Sinostatism is actually very easy to discover. If you look up the first-level subdivisions of China you will find that they are pretty much as culture-deficient and artificial as most colonial ones.

For example Henan (河南) means "to the south of Yellow River", Heilongjiang (黑龙江) means "Amur River" and Xinjiang (新疆) means "new territory".

These are not more culture-rich than names such as "Upper Burma" and "Lower Burma". Hell even colonial place names often have more culture retained than Chinese ones...which are often literally based on rivers, lakes, mountains etc, not people.

I don't know if that's fair, globally older names were pretty blandly descriptive.. Cambridge is the bridge over the River Cam, Oxford is the ford where ox can cross.

China culturally is more centred around food, and food names can be far more imbued with culture, such as Crossing the Bridge Noodles or Ants Climbing the Tree.

Most such nations at least have a culturally relevant state name unless they are colonial creations such as South Africa. Hell there is a reason why Sub-Saharan Africans are ashamed of the words "Rhodesia" and "South-West Africa" and renamed them.

Well, even "China" and "Han" are statist names. "China" means "Qin", Zhongguo (中国) means "the state in the middle" which is a generic name also used by Japanese to refer to a region sort of in the middle (not really) of Japan and Han is the name of another centralized state.

Where are the people? No, there are no people! Instead there is only the fucking Leviathan.

Even other countries with histories of centrism and statism tend to have better names. For example Iran is "Land of Aryans", Russia is from "Rus" and France is from the Franks.

[Neko-koku]

Extreme statism caused the Chinese to be the most divided and least politically (and militarily) active people on this entire planet.

Of course the only reason why Singapore is independent at all is Malays kicking it out of Malaysia..and that even today place names in Singapore are mostly Malay or British, the Singaporean flag has a new moon despite having few Muslims, the Singaporean anthem is in Malay and people from every race and ethnic group can get Chinese Singaporean girls while Tamil, Malay girls and even foreign maids almost never have interest in Chinese Singaporean men.

Of course Chinese folks submit to Africans in Africa, Latin Americans in Latin America and Papuans in Papua New Guinea....just like pre-Israel Jews we have no state that gives a shit about us and have to bow down to anyone and everyone. Arabs won't. Pre-PC whites and East Europeans won't. Mongols and Central Asians won't. Africans won't. Almost nobody except for Chinese, Japanese and Korean people (and pre-Israel Jews) have this fucking habit and among the three it is the worst among the Chinese.

[Kowani]

Heck, my city is named Pomegranate. (Translated, anyway.)

Which country is it in?

Spain.

[Aprait]

I just hope that the city where I came from would eventually find a resolution soon.

[Tuthina]

I just hope that the city where I came from would eventually find a resolution soon.

It will, just probably not the resolution many of us would like. Maybe I'm still too pessimistic, but I still think that the crisis will end when one side has bled too much to continue, which most likely would be the protesters and the general population. For that, the city will bleed.

[Belagia]

I just hope that the city where I came from would eventually find a resolution soon.

It will, just probably not the resolution many of us would like. Maybe I'm still too pessimistic, but I still think that the crisis will end when one side has bled too much to continue, which most likely would be the protesters and the general population. For that, the city will bleed.

If the City bleeds... So will the Yangtze, but in Napalm blaze.

#BombTheFuckOutOfChinaGang

[Purgatio]

Extreme statism caused the Chinese to be the most divided and least politically (and militarily) active people on this entire planet.

Of course the only reason why Singapore is independent at all is Malays kicking it out of Malaysia..and that even today place names in Singapore are mostly Malay or British, the Singaporean flag has a new moon despite having few Muslims, the Singaporean anthem is in Malay and people from every race and ethnic group can get Chinese Singaporean girls while Tamil, Malay girls and even foreign maids almost never have interest in Chinese Singaporean men.

Of course Chinese folks submit to Africans in Africa, Latin Americans in Latin America and Papuans in Papua New Guinea....just like pre-Israel Jews we have no state that gives a shit about us and have to bow down to anyone and everyone. Arabs won't. Pre-PC whites and East Europeans won't. Mongols and Central Asians won't. Africans won't. Almost nobody except for Chinese, Japanese and Korean people (and pre-Israel Jews) have this fucking habit and among the three it is the worst among the Chinese.

This is all over the place, man. How are you drawing massive leaps of logic from 'extreme Statism' to interracial dating habits, I can't even begin to fathom what you're saying here, let alone respond.

[Heloin]

And if you want to believe that, that's cool.

Luckily you live in a society where it's okay to be incorrect.

I'm just saying the law would be pretty ineffectual if individuals can just magically snap their fingers and decide at their own discretion to stop following it. Vandalism is still vandalism and assault is still assault. These Hong Kong rioters are lawless violent criminals, no ifs or buts about it.

If you're referring to the Triads that the police have stepped aside to allow them to attack the protesters, then yes that is true. Since I know you're talking about the protesters however, no they're not.

Hence the wide spectrum of shit. I know you and Purgatio will say that China isn't currently an Imperial power because some shit about empires that died 60 years ago but China is at this moment a colonising imperial power.

And it does send soldiers overseas.

You’re confusing China with the British and American empires

You can lie all you want and pretend that China currently isn't an Imperial power. You'd just be lying though.