Hong Kong

[Neko-koku]

hence why they won't go on some mass protest in support of Hong Kong anytime soon

Hong Kong and Macau collapsing would increase tensions in Southern China not because of solidarity but because of the economic fallout. The PRC knows this.

school, work, money, and family is what matters to them

You've kept saying that about Hong Kong and that's proved absolutely false so far.

and if the HK protests rise up to a certain level to threaten all of that, they will be undermined from within too

That just doesn't make sense.

There are also Canton independence folks.

[Infected Mushroom]

hence why they won't go on some mass protest in support of Hong Kong anytime soon

Hong Kong and Macau collapsing would increase tensions in Southern China not because of solidarity but because of the economic fallout. The PRC knows this.

school, work, money, and family is what matters to them

You've kept saying that about Hong Kong and that's proved absolutely false so far.

and if the HK protests rise up to a certain level to threaten all of that, they will be undermined from within too

That just doesn't make sense.

If Hong Kong's economy starts collapsing, the people here will point fingers at the most immediate cause. Which is the protestors disrupting trains, creating a climate of fear, and attacking people (and probably at that point, burning shops).

If the PLA is still nowhere to be seen, the HKers will fight amongst themselves for no real gain.

[Infected Mushroom]

Hong Kong and Macau collapsing would increase tensions in Southern China not because of solidarity but because of the economic fallout. The PRC knows this.


You've kept saying that about Hong Kong and that's proved absolutely false so far.


That just doesn't make sense.

There are also Canton independence folks.

A negligible minority.

[Neko-koku]

The problem is that they are even more wary of investing in China proper.

Will China's economy suffer just a little with HK's downward spiral? Sure. Can it continue to exist and reach the same levels of economic prosperity in a few years? Absolutely. In fact, the economy would continue to grow.

However, who is MOST hurt by this? The local people here, not the people in Beijing.

The protestors are trying to attack China by attacking the local way of life here (disrupting trains, attacking every day people, causing financial panic locally etc).

I see no situation where China would be scared.

I really doubt that because I actually know the situation well.

[Kaltovar]

and neither do the people of HK

the vast majority of the people here want to go to work and school, not die or blow up their own society over some nebulous rights

It's not nebulous. It started about the extradition bill. There were 2 million people at a recent protest ... That is almost 1/3rd of the population. You are a liar spreading false information. Here is a picture of your "Minority" of protesters


All the reasons you give for why China doesn't need to care about Hong Kong and how they can "Just do nothing" only go to prove the point that Hong Kong has a strong position here. Why? Because the incentive IS for China to "Just do nothing", and if they just do nothing eventually the extradition bill will be revoked from parliament and Carrie Lam will step down. If China does nothing, Hong Kong wins by default, because that forces the local government to act. The elites of the city will sacrifice Carrie Lam in a heartbeat to save their own fortunes, and if PLA doesn't intervene they will have no choice but to capitulate to the overwhelming majority of Hongkongers who want her and her wretched bill gone.

[Infected Mushroom]

Will China's economy suffer just a little with HK's downward spiral? Sure. Can it continue to exist and reach the same levels of economic prosperity in a few years? Absolutely. In fact, the economy would continue to grow.

However, who is MOST hurt by this? The local people here, not the people in Beijing.

The protestors are trying to attack China by attacking the local way of life here (disrupting trains, attacking every day people, causing financial panic locally etc).

I see no situation where China would be scared.

I really doubt that because I actually know the situation well.

China knows (and calculates) that if the protests go up to a certain point they will lose popular support.

That is why they're not sending in the PLA.

They KNOW that the protests will either stay at the current level (which they can manage) or it will fracture into various groups once it goes above a certain level because HKers would feel too threatened by the protestors causing so much economic harm to them.

[Heloin]

Hong Kong and Macau collapsing would increase tensions in Southern China not because of solidarity but because of the economic fallout. The PRC knows this.


You've kept saying that about Hong Kong and that's proved absolutely false so far.


That just doesn't make sense.

If Hong Kong's economy starts collapsing, the people here will point fingers at the most immediate cause. Which is the protestors disrupting trains, creating a climate of fear, and attacking people (and probably at that point, burning shops).

If the PLA is still nowhere to be seen, the HKers will fight amongst themselves for no real gain.

They'll point the finger at what everyone knows is to blame, Beijing.

[Infected Mushroom]

and neither do the people of HK

the vast majority of the people here want to go to work and school, not die or blow up their own society over some nebulous rights

It's not nebulous. It started about the extradition bill. There were 2 million people at a recent protest ... That is almost 1/3rd of the population. You are a liar spreading false information. Here is a picture of your "Minority" of protesters


All the reasons you give for why China doesn't need to care about Hong Kong and how they can "Just do nothing" only go to prove the point that Hong Kong has a strong position here. Why? Because the incentive IS for China to "Just do nothing", and if they just do nothing eventually the extradition bill will be revoked from parliament and Carrie Lam will step down. If China does nothing, Hong Kong wins by default, because that forces the local government to act. The elites of the city will sacrifice Carrie Lam in a heartbeat to save their own fortunes, and if PLA doesn't intervene they will have no choice but to capitulate to the overwhelming majority of Hongkongers who want her and her wretched bill gone.

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

[Infected Mushroom]

If Hong Kong's economy starts collapsing, the people here will point fingers at the most immediate cause. Which is the protestors disrupting trains, creating a climate of fear, and attacking people (and probably at that point, burning shops).

If the PLA is still nowhere to be seen, the HKers will fight amongst themselves for no real gain.

They'll point the finger at what everyone knows is to blame, Beijing.

not when its the protestors (and not the PLA) who are attacking trains, shops, and the common people

(which will be necessary if the protestors want to cause REAL economic collapse)

[Neanderthaland]

It's not nebulous. It started about the extradition bill. There were 2 million people at a recent protest ... That is almost 1/3rd of the population. You are a liar spreading false information. Here is a picture of your "Minority" of protesters


All the reasons you give for why China doesn't need to care about Hong Kong and how they can "Just do nothing" only go to prove the point that Hong Kong has a strong position here. Why? Because the incentive IS for China to "Just do nothing", and if they just do nothing eventually the extradition bill will be revoked from parliament and Carrie Lam will step down. If China does nothing, Hong Kong wins by default, because that forces the local government to act. The elites of the city will sacrifice Carrie Lam in a heartbeat to save their own fortunes, and if PLA doesn't intervene they will have no choice but to capitulate to the overwhelming majority of Hongkongers who want her and her wretched bill gone.

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

That's a higher percentage of population then you get at almost any protest, ever. But sure, go ahead and pretend these are low numbers. It's not like everyone can see how dumb that is.

[Neko-koku]

It's not nebulous. It started about the extradition bill. There were 2 million people at a recent protest ... That is almost 1/3rd of the population. You are a liar spreading false information. Here is a picture of your "Minority" of protesters


All the reasons you give for why China doesn't need to care about Hong Kong and how they can "Just do nothing" only go to prove the point that Hong Kong has a strong position here. Why? Because the incentive IS for China to "Just do nothing", and if they just do nothing eventually the extradition bill will be revoked from parliament and Carrie Lam will step down. If China does nothing, Hong Kong wins by default, because that forces the local government to act. The elites of the city will sacrifice Carrie Lam in a heartbeat to save their own fortunes, and if PLA doesn't intervene they will have no choice but to capitulate to the overwhelming majority of Hongkongers who want her and her wretched bill gone.

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

Wut? 30% participation rate is unprecedented.

[Heloin]

I really doubt that because I actually know the situation well.

China knows (and calculates) that if the protests go up to a certain point they will lose popular support.

That is why they're not sending in the PLA.

They KNOW that the protests will either stay at the current level (which they can manage) or it will fracture into various groups once it goes above a certain level because HKers would feel too threatened by the protestors causing so much economic harm to them.

You've been saying that these protest will lose popular support for ten weeks. They still haven't, when will it be clear that they aren't going to.

The PRC and PLA are doing nothing because they know that doing something is probably the worst choice.

[Infected Mushroom]

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

That's a higher percentage of population then you get at almost any protest, ever. But sure, go ahead and pretend these are low numbers. It's not like everyone can see how dumb that is.

these numbers still show that the vast majority of HK is against or apathetic towards the protestors

they're not showing up to protest

[Infected Mushroom]

China knows (and calculates) that if the protests go up to a certain point they will lose popular support.

That is why they're not sending in the PLA.

They KNOW that the protests will either stay at the current level (which they can manage) or it will fracture into various groups once it goes above a certain level because HKers would feel too threatened by the protestors causing so much economic harm to them.

You've been saying that these protest will lose popular support for ten weeks. They still haven't, when will it be clear that they aren't going to.

The PRC and PLA are doing nothing because they know that doing something is probably the worst choice.

school hasn't started

The PLA doesn't have to do anything because it either escalates (and then the rest of HK will put a stop to this economic self destruction) or it stays at the same level or more likely, it goes down

[Kaltovar]

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

Are you high? When in the history of any city, outside of the fucking Russian Revolution, has 50% of the population ever turned out for a protest on a single issue? This is a PHYSICAL PROTEST, not an election where you have to get at least 51% to win.

Your supposed reason for why the rest weren't there is incredibly disingenuous too. Not being there on a specific day doesn't mean they "value their jobs more", it can mean they were working that day, or afraid, or in jail for protesting as many Hongkongers are. You have no way of knowing that on one day the 2 million is not an entirely different 2 million, and assuming that they are one in the same is incredibly intellectually dishonest.

Why are you unironically shilling for a Fascist, organ harvesting Han ethnostate?

[Neanderthaland]

That's a higher percentage of population then you get at almost any protest, ever. But sure, go ahead and pretend these are low numbers. It's not like everyone can see how dumb that is.

these numbers still show that the vast majority of HK is against or apathetic towards the protestors

they're not showing up to protest

No, that's dumb. Most people don't show up to protests even if they strongly agree with them. 30% of the population makes this arguably the most strongly publicly supported protest ever.

[Infected Mushroom]

these numbers still show that the vast majority of HK is against or apathetic towards the protestors

they're not showing up to protest

No, that's dumb. Most people don't show up to protests even if they strongly agree with them. 30% of the population makes this arguably the most strongly publicly supported protest ever.

if they don't show up to protest, then they don't support the protest

and if they support it, its only lip service

those are facts

[Kaltovar]

No, that's dumb. Most people don't show up to protests even if they strongly agree with them. 30% of the population makes this arguably the most strongly publicly supported protest ever.

if they don't show up to protest, then they don't support the protest

and if they support it, its only lip service

those are facts

They are not facts. The PRC is a Fascist ethnostate. You are fake news.

[Infected Mushroom]

2 million protestors during summer time (when college classes are off) is not a good number

if go by these numbers, less than 50% of the people care enough to even show up at these protests; they value their jobs more

and when school starts in September (since young people are over-represented), the numbers will plummet further

Are you high? When in the history of any city, outside of the fucking Russian Revolution, has 50% of the population ever turned out for a protest on a single issue? This is a PHYSICAL PROTEST, not an election where you have to get at least 51% to win.

Your supposed reason for why the rest weren't there is incredibly disingenuous too. Not being there on a specific day doesn't mean they "value their jobs more", it can mean they were working that day, or afraid, or in jail for protesting as many Hongkongers are. You have no way of knowing that on one day the 2 million is not an entirely different 2 million, and assuming that they are one in the same is incredibly intellectually dishonest.

Why are you unironically shilling for a Fascist, organ harvesting Han ethnostate?

2 million is not 50% of the population

[Heloin]

They'll point the finger at what everyone knows is to blame, Beijing.

not when its the protestors (and not the PLA) who are attacking trains, shops, and the common people

(which will be necessary if the protestors want to cause REAL economic collapse)

How can these people not ride the buses in Montgomery? Don't they know what damage they are doing to the city?

[Kaltovar]

Are you high? When in the history of any city, outside of the fucking Russian Revolution, has 50% of the population ever turned out for a protest on a single issue? This is a PHYSICAL PROTEST, not an election where you have to get at least 51% to win.

Your supposed reason for why the rest weren't there is incredibly disingenuous too. Not being there on a specific day doesn't mean they "value their jobs more", it can mean they were working that day, or afraid, or in jail for protesting as many Hongkongers are. You have no way of knowing that on one day the 2 million is not an entirely different 2 million, and assuming that they are one in the same is incredibly intellectually dishonest.

Why are you unironically shilling for a Fascist, organ harvesting Han ethnostate?

2 million is not 50% of the population

Uhhh ... No, it's not. It's nearly a third, as I observed earlier. That is why I'm posing the question to you, who apparently judges protests on whether they achieve 51% of the population, when in history ANY protest has ever had 50% turnout.

Nice one dodging the FACT that the PRC is a Fascist organ harvesting Han Ethnostate that murders religious minorities and genocides ethnicities they don't like BTW.

[Heloin]

No, that's dumb. Most people don't show up to protests even if they strongly agree with them. 30% of the population makes this arguably the most strongly publicly supported protest ever.

if they don't show up to protest, then they don't support the protest

and if they support it, its only lip service

those are facts

That's a real stupid kind of logic you're working on right there.

[Infected Mushroom]

not when its the protestors (and not the PLA) who are attacking trains, shops, and the common people

(which will be necessary if the protestors want to cause REAL economic collapse)

How can these people not ride the buses in Montgomery? Don't they know what damage they are doing to the city?

I never said I supported any of those measures either

[Infected Mushroom]

if they don't show up to protest, then they don't support the protest

and if they support it, its only lip service

those are facts

That's a real stupid kind of logic you're working on right there.

lip service support is saying "I support the protests" while not protesting

[Heloin]

That's a real stupid kind of logic you're working on right there.

lip service support is saying "I support the protests" while not protesting

You're saying that one of the largest protests in history isn't proof of popular support. You're either just lying or don't know what you're talking about.