Hong Kong

[Lady Scylla]

I'm rooting for a Republic of Hong Kong. I hope the public finds someway to secure arms at this point, I'd rather it be a bloodless ordeal but it doesn't seem that's how things are going to work out unfortunately. And if Hong Kong is to survive, it needs to get away from Beijing. The two just cannot co-exist in a single country.

[Nakena]

I'm rooting for a Republic of Hong Kong. I hope the public finds someway to secure arms at this point, I'd rather it be a bloodless ordeal but it doesn't seem that's how things are going to work out unfortunately. And if Hong Kong is to survive, it needs to get away from Beijing. The two just cannot co-exist in a single country.

They could not very long hold out against an PLA assault.

[EastKekistan]

I'm rooting for a Republic of Hong Kong. I hope the public finds someway to secure arms at this point, I'd rather it be a bloodless ordeal but it doesn't seem that's how things are going to work out unfortunately. And if Hong Kong is to survive, it needs to get away from Beijing. The two just cannot co-exist in a single country.

This is indeed the best option. Sinosphere needs political diversity and de-Qinization. Qin and any entity on this planet that behaves like Qin are evil.

[Bombadil]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The problem with this is that no one trusts her. Time and again one sees exhortations to stop the protests, focusing on the relatively smaller instances of violence and painting it as if everyone's engaged in it, yet offering zero solutions to the issue. Not once have I seen concrete ideas or commitments as to how to move forward. They seem to think that by threatening greater violence the protestors will back off but part of the point is to show China's true colours so this really plays into the protestor's hands. Every next move is painted as required of the protestors while the government offers nothing.

She ploughed ahead with the extradition bill against the advice of everyone, then refused to withdraw it completely, and now she's calling for calm and to set aside differences when she wasn't willing to do so herself.

Frankly I'm tired of this, every day.. I'm developing a pretty deep hatred of a politician called Junius Ho, who just the other day posted pictures of himself with water cannon vehicles gloating about how they would inflict pain and damage on people.. the level of mean-ness and dismissal of young people fighting to secure a freer future, describing people as rioters and terrorists alone without budging an inch or taking any responsibility for what's happening.

It really feels like a physical weight.

[Lady Scylla]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The problem with this is that no one trusts her. Time and again one sees exhortations to stop the protests, focusing on the relatively smaller instances of violence and painting it as if everyone's engaged in it, yet offering zero solutions to the issue. Not once have I seen concrete ideas or commitments as to how to move forward. They seem to think that by threatening greater violence the protestors will back off but part of the point is to show China's true colours so this really plays into the protestor's hands. Every next move is painted as required of the protestors while the government offers nothing.

She ploughed ahead with the extradition bill against the advice of everyone, then refused to withdraw it completely, and now she's calling for calm and to set aside differences when she wasn't willing to do so herself.

Frankly I'm tired of this, every day.. I'm developing a pretty deep hatred of a politician called Junius Ho, who just the other day posted pictures of himself with water cannon vehicles gloating about how they would inflict pain and damage on people.. the level of mean-ness and dismissal of young people fighting to secure a freer future, describing people as rioters and terrorists alone without budging an inch or taking any responsibility for what's happening.

It really feels like a physical weight.

And more reason why Hong Kong is not China and has not been for sometime. I even spent some time redoing their flag >.>

It's a huge picture so I spoilered it.

Hong Kong holds a special place in my heart, and I thought I'd take the time to convey the Yellow Umbrella protests and the two bars to signify that and Tiananmen. The Mandarin says ''Hong Kong Independence''.

[Tuthina]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The problem with this is that no one trusts her. Time and again one sees exhortations to stop the protests, focusing on the relatively smaller instances of violence and painting it as if everyone's engaged in it, yet offering zero solutions to the issue. Not once have I seen concrete ideas or commitments as to how to move forward. They seem to think that by threatening greater violence the protestors will back off but part of the point is to show China's true colours so this really plays into the protestor's hands. Every next move is painted as required of the protestors while the government offers nothing.

She ploughed ahead with the extradition bill against the advice of everyone, then refused to withdraw it completely, and now she's calling for calm and to set aside differences when she wasn't willing to do so herself.

Frankly I'm tired of this, every day.. I'm developing a pretty deep hatred of a politician called Junius Ho, who just the other day posted pictures of himself with water cannon vehicles gloating about how they would inflict pain and damage on people.. the level of mean-ness and dismissal of young people fighting to secure a freer future, describing people as rioters and terrorists alone without budging an inch or taking any responsibility for what's happening.

It really feels like a physical weight.

Well, at least she admits that she has not been sincere in dialogue. Also, pretty sure I heard that the reporters asked her whether she knows a lot of HKers are asking when would she die as she flees the press conference.

[The New California Republic]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The media is starting to turn on her too. She got constantly interrupted by questions about her failings and when she is going to resign, and she repeatedly sidestepped them.

[Rojava Free State]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The PRC: sends people to gulags, has opponents killed, is "reeducating" the uighurs, is run by a corrupt tyrant who takes out every one he doesn't wanna share the spot light with.

Carrie Lam: dang, there's so much violence in Hong kong. What happened to rule of law.

And this is the problem with a lot of people in East Asia folks. Every culture has its strengths and weakness and the biggest weakness of a lot of people in East Asia is they always do what they're told. They don't stop and try to think for themselves or act on their own accord. Some guy in a funny outfit tells them "obey my laws or else!" And they're just like " we need to maintain social harmony and order. " Look, fuck social harmony and order too. If the government is unjust and tyrannical then people need to fight it. Your social order isn't as important as human rights and freedom. If lawlessness and chaos are what spawns from taking on a dictator then slap me silly and call me an anarchist because that's exactly what needs to happen I guess. The protesters in Hong Kong are fighting a losing battle but have their dignity at least. Carrie Lam is just like the coward from the "first they came for the communists" poem. She just keeps hoping Beijing won't have her sent to a "reeducation center" somewhere in the western desert. Trust me, once the PRC takes over Beijing completely, they are replacing that entire government. Doesn't matter how much you grovel, they're paranoid and they will wanna make sure anyone running the city of Hong Kong was handpicked by Xi himself.

We gotta change this way of thinking. We need more dissidents

[Tuthina]

In a direct appeal to demonstrators, she [Carrie Lam] said: “Let’s set aside differences and spend one minute to look at our city and our home. Could we bear to push it into an abyss where everything will perish?

“We need to object to violence and maintain the rule of law ... When this all calms down, we will start to have sincere dialogues and rebuild harmony.”

The media is starting to turn on her too. She got constantly interrupted by questions about her failings and when she is going to resign, and she repeatedly sidestepped them.

That tends to happen when she frequently defend the police brutality, of which a lot of front line reporters are on the receiving end. The daily police press conference arguably has it worse, since it's a lot more direct too. Granted, compared with Carrie Lam, so far no reporters have directly asked Carrie Lam whether she think she would go to hell, and that many citizens have been asking when will she die, but still.

On a related note, the latest opinion survey conducted by Public Opinion Research Institute between August 1 and 6 indicates that public approval for the police force dropped from 61% at early June to 39.4%, marking the lowest score in survey record. Public opinion for Carrie Lam also dropped below 30%.

[The New California Republic]

On Tuesday the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, urged authorities to exercise restraint during protests - amid criticism of the police response.

"Officials can be seen firing tear gas canisters into crowded, enclosed areas and directly at individual protesters on multiple occasions, creating a considerable risk of death or serious injury," she said in a statement that called for an investigation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-49330848

Firing tear gas inside buildings is a big nono, as high concentrations of tear gas can kill, as shown in previous cases:

a number of people have died following exposure to high concentrations of tear gas in enclosed areas. "Deaths and respiratory tract injuries were reported after release of tear gas in prisons," the CDC said.
https://www.newsweek.com/what-are-effec ... as-1231058

[Jolthig]

Large numbers of Chinese paramilitary forces have been filmed assembling just 30km (18.6 miles) from Hong Kong in the city of Shenzhen, as the UN warned Beijing to exercise restraint in its response to growing unrest in the territory.

Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing leader Carrie Lam said on Tuesday the city had been placed on a “path of no return” after 10 weeks of increasingly disruptive protests.

Flights at the international airport in Hong Kong were cancelled for a second day, as thousands of demonstrators gathered in the departure hall at the main terminal despite the implementation of increased security measures designed to keep them out.

Chinese state media described the build-up of armed police units, shown in videos gathering at an arena called the Shenzhen Bay Sports Centre, as preparations for “apparent large-scale exercises”. Alexandre Krauss, a policy advisor for the EU’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, called the videos a sign that “something extraordinarily bad is about to happen”.

Similar exercises on 6 August featured up to 12,000 troops, according to the Chinese state-run Global Times newspaper, and featured armoured personnel carriers, helicopters and amphibious vehicles.

The newspaper described the People’s Armed Police forces as being mandated by Chinese law for “dealing with rebellions, riots, serious violent and illegal incidents, terrorist attacks and other social security incidents”.

It is a further sign of Beijing’s waning patience with the unrest in Hong Kong, after the Chinese government said on Monday that the protest movement in the city had begun to show “sprouts of terrorism”.

While China defines terrorism loosely, it has previously used the term to describe non-violent opposition movements in minority regions such as Tibet and Xinjiang, justifying greater uses of force and the suspension of legal rights for detainees.

Speaking on BBC radio, Britain’s last governor of the city before the 1997 handover said it would be “a catastrophe for China and of course for Hong Kong” if there was a military intervention.

Chris Patten said it was counter productive of China to warn of “other methods” if the protests did not stop. “Since President Xi has been in office, there’s been a crackdown on dissent and dissidents everywhere, the party has been in control of everything,” he said.

“I very much hope that even after 10 weeks of this going on, the government and President Xi [Jinping] will see the sense in establishing a way of actually bringing people together,” Lord Patten said.

Steve Tsang, director of the China Institute at Soas University of London, said that despite repeated shows of force “we are still some distance from [Chinese] security forces being deployed in Hong Kong”.

“But it is much closer today than a month ago,” he added, when protesters targeted the main central government headquarters in Hong Kong and a Chinese flag was defaced.

Mr Tsang said the shift in China’s perception of the protests, rather than its troop movements, was the critical issue. “Beijing now sees events in Hong Kong as a ‘colour revolution’… part of an American-led global conspiracy which aims ultimately at regime change in China,” he said. “This is totally intolerable to Xi Jinping.”

In a statement, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet said that by conflating the Hong Kong protests with “terrorism”, China risked inflaming the situation.

She urged the authorities to exercise restraint and to investigate evidence of uses of excessive force by police – one of the protesters’ key demands.

“Officials can be seen firing tear gas canisters into crowded, enclosed areas and directly at individual protesters on multiple occasions, creating a considerable risk of death or serious injury,” Ms Bachelet said, referring to videos of recent clashes in the city.

Ms Lam, however, reiterated her support for the police and their tactics, saying they have had to make on-the-spot decisions under difficult circumstances, using “the lowest level of force”.

During angry exchanges in which reporters repeatedly shouted over her, Ms Lam said dialogue would only resume “after the violence has been stopped, and the chaotic situation that we are seeing… subside[s]”.

And she again dismissed calls for her resignation, saying that: “I, as the chief executive, will be responsible to rebuild Hong Kong’s economy ... to help Hong Kong to move on.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 55591.html

So, NSG, is another Tiananmen Square inevitable? I'm seeing similarities between the two events. While what China is doing is going to be horrible, sadly as usual, there is nothing we can do about it.

[Estanglia]

Just what we needed. China building up troops outside of Hong Kong.

If they deploy the troops, either they get away with pulling another Tiananmen Square or we're gonna get really damn close to a massive war.

[Grater Tovakia]

I already posted this in the Hong Kong thread, but I will still respond. Personally I think China will crush this rebellion, in regards to a war I highly doubt it unless Boris Johnson decides to go Rule Britannia on Chinas ass which I highly doubt will ever happen.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

One Country, Two Systems is obviously a joke, and it is going to be de facto abolished in the coming year. That is what happens when you trust communists.

[Surobaya]

China won't get away with it, severe economic sanctions will follow and perhaps even military actions. But in the unlikely event in which Hong Kong gains independence, then they will most likely join Taiwan. Not to mention, integrating Hong Kong will cause some anger in the Cantonese provinces of Guangxi and Guangdong.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

One Country, Two Systems is obviously a joke, and it is going to be de facto abolished in the coming year. That is what happens when you trust communists.

That's what happens when you trust authoritarian governments in general.

[Shrive]

One Country, Two Systems is obviously a joke, and it is going to be de facto abolished in the coming year. That is what happens when you trust communists.

>Implying China is communist

[The South Falls]

The Hong Kong protesters have to hope that they won't get shot.

I hope that the protesters are not intimidated.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

The Hong Kong protesters have to hope that they won't get shot.

I hope that the protesters are not intimidated.

China even has a gun ban so the people cannot fight back. I'm sure that will come to Hong Kong.

[Estanglia]

China won't get away with it, severe economic sanctions will follow and perhaps even military actions. But in the unlikely event in which Hong Kong gains independence, then they will most likely join Taiwan. Not to mention, integrating Hong Kong will cause some anger in the Cantonese provinces of Guangxi and Guangdong.

I severely doubt that there's gonna be any military or economic responses.

China produces way too much at way too cheap prices for them to be kicked out of the international community without causing economic problems for the West, and military action is largely impossible without risking a major war.

I also don't think they're gonna integrate Hong Kong, just keep it under Chinese domination.

The most we'll probably get is some finger-wagging and some "bad China, no marching troops into a city to violently suppress protests", and nothing else.

[The South Falls]

The Hong Kong protesters have to hope that they won't get shot.

I hope that the protesters are not intimidated.

China even has a gun ban so the people cannot fight back.

How could they fight back in the first place? This isn't Stalingrad and most people don't want to die.

[Ethel mermania]

Already have a thread for this

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=466241

[The South Falls]

With the military build up it's looking like Tiananmen Square II.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

One Country, Two Systems is obviously a joke, and it is going to be de facto abolished in the coming year. That is what happens when you trust communists.

>Implying China is communist

Considering the fact you support North Korea, I'm surprised you wouldn't consider China communist. Is it not totalitarian enough for you?

[The New California Republic]

Already have a thread for this

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=466241

I've already asked for it to be merged, just need to wait.