Hong Kong

[Bombadil]

The unfolding confrontation between China’s leaders and Hong Kong’s citizens will provide fresh ammunition to US hardliners who have been advocating an aggressive stance against the Chinese government. Revoking Hong Kong’s privileges would advance that goal, because it would significantly hurt China.

After all, as the Sino-American economic cold war escalates, and rising regulatory and legislative hurdles make it harder for Chinese companies to raise capital in the US, Hong Kong will become immensely valuable to China as an offshore financial center. But if the US decides to withdraw Hong Kong’s privileges on the grounds that Chinese actions no longer justify treating it as a separate entity, the city’s value as a financial center will be fatally impaired. China’s companies will have less access to capital, and the valuations of Chinese state-owned enterprises listed on Hong Kong’s stock exchange will fall.

China Is Courting Disaster in Hong Kong

[Bengal and Assam]

I heard of these Chinese cyber warriors known as 50 cent-ers. Apparently, these people get about 50cents (USD) per pro-CCP propaganda posts on forums and social media from the Chinese government....

Now,I'm not accusing people over here.
But if we ASSUME that IM is a 50 cent-er, how much did he earn from this thread?

Oh, man...a lot. That's all I'm gonna say.

Becoming a millionare by only posting stuff on SNS lol...

I heard of these Chinese cyber warriors known as 50 cent-ers. Apparently, these people get about 50cents (USD) per pro-CCP propaganda posts on forums and social media from the Chinese government....

Now,I'm not accusing people over here.
But if we ASSUME that IM is a 50 cent-er, how much did he earn from this thread?

Nah he isn't. Trust me I've seen cyber PLA in action years ago. The thread here would be flooded by new users with bad spelling and pro-china viewpoint.

What are your experinces with them? Just asking...

[The New California Republic]

And you don't give a shit that about 72 demonstrators have been wounded by rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. That really doesn't surprise me.

It is most unfortunate that they were hurt

However, the protest was reckless and irresponsible

Give with one hand, take away with the other.

[Nakena]

What are your experinces with them? Just asking...

I've saw them invading a forum and manipulating the poll of a Tibet topic and making use of massive sockpuppetry with really bad grammar. A dozen new accounts appeared and kept making pro-china comments in very broken english.

[Bengal and Assam]

What are your experinces with them? Just asking...

I've saw them invading a forum and manipulating the poll of a Tibet topic and making use of massive sockpuppetry with really bad grammar. A dozen new accounts appeared and kept making pro-china comments in very broken english.

I encountered one on Twitter. Ganged up on him with similar minded people as me and chased him back across the Great Firewall (he blocked me).

Hong Kong has got a small but vocal movement of people who want to return to British rule. What does OP think of this BTW?

[Infected Mushroom]

The unfolding confrontation between China’s leaders and Hong Kong’s citizens will provide fresh ammunition to US hardliners who have been advocating an aggressive stance against the Chinese government. Revoking Hong Kong’s privileges would advance that goal, because it would significantly hurt China.

After all, as the Sino-American economic cold war escalates, and rising regulatory and legislative hurdles make it harder for Chinese companies to raise capital in the US, Hong Kong will become immensely valuable to China as an offshore financial center. But if the US decides to withdraw Hong Kong’s privileges on the grounds that Chinese actions no longer justify treating it as a separate entity, the city’s value as a financial center will be fatally impaired. China’s companies will have less access to capital, and the valuations of Chinese state-owned enterprises listed on Hong Kong’s stock exchange will fall.

China Is Courting Disaster in Hong Kong

China doesn't have to worry about the USA.

If the USA couldn't even defeat Vietnam in the field of battle, then it certainly won't be able to defeat China on land.

It the USA were to wage a limited air and sea war, then I expect the people would protest because they'd want their continued access to cheap Chinese goods.

In other words, as long as China remains strongly and largely unified, it cannot be invaded.

[Bombadil]

The unfolding confrontation between China’s leaders and Hong Kong’s citizens will provide fresh ammunition to US hardliners who have been advocating an aggressive stance against the Chinese government. Revoking Hong Kong’s privileges would advance that goal, because it would significantly hurt China.

After all, as the Sino-American economic cold war escalates, and rising regulatory and legislative hurdles make it harder for Chinese companies to raise capital in the US, Hong Kong will become immensely valuable to China as an offshore financial center. But if the US decides to withdraw Hong Kong’s privileges on the grounds that Chinese actions no longer justify treating it as a separate entity, the city’s value as a financial center will be fatally impaired. China’s companies will have less access to capital, and the valuations of Chinese state-owned enterprises listed on Hong Kong’s stock exchange will fall.

China Is Courting Disaster in Hong Kong

China doesn't have to worry about the USA.

If the USA couldn't even defeat Vietnam in the field of battle, then it certainly won't be able to defeat China on land.

It the USA were to wage a limited air and sea war, then I expect the people would protest because they'd want their continued access to cheap Chinese goods.

In other words, as long as China remains strongly and largely unified, it cannot be invaded.

What are you responding to exactly?

[Ethel mermania]

China doesn't have to worry about the USA.

If the USA couldn't even defeat Vietnam in the field of battle, then it certainly won't be able to defeat China on land.

It the USA were to wage a limited air and sea war, then I expect the people would protest because they'd want their continued access to cheap Chinese goods.

In other words, as long as China remains strongly and largely unified, it cannot be invaded.

What are you responding to exactly?

China winning a land war vs the US over Hong Kong.

Now if the Hoff were leading our forces, I would disagree with IM

[Bombadil]

What are you responding to exactly?

China winning a land war vs the US over Hong Kong.

Now if the Hoff were leading our forces, I would disagree with IM

Nowhere in the article did it mention a land war so he wasn't responding to that, he simply created a completely irrelevant response.

I've saw them invading a forum and manipulating the poll of a Tibet topic and making use of massive sockpuppetry with really bad grammar. A dozen new accounts appeared and kept making pro-china comments in very broken english.

I encountered one on Twitter. Ganged up on him with similar minded people as me and chased him back across the Great Firewall (he blocked me).

Hong Kong has got a small but vocal movement of people who want to return to British rule. What does OP think of this BTW?

OP thinks it's impractical, unfeasible and undesirable on all sides. I think mostly it's more mere reminiscence of HKs heyday in the 80s and 90s.. the handover and the Asian Financial Crisis were the same year so a coincidental marking point of perceived decline.

[Ethel mermania]

China winning a land war vs the US over Hong Kong.

Now if the Hoff were leading our forces, I would disagree with IM

Nowhere in the article did it mention a land war so he wasn't responding to that, he simply created a completely irrelevant response.

This is nationstates.

[The New California Republic]

Nowhere in the article did it mention a land war so he wasn't responding to that, he simply created a completely irrelevant response.

This is nationstates.

Bringing along a strawman companion is an unwritten rule in NSGeneral.

[The Nihilistic view]

The whole problem stems from the idiots not making the lease to the UK 10000000 years. Then it could be functionally independent now.

As for the current situation, it's a brave attempt but in reality they won't save Hong Kong. I don't really think there is much to discuss in that regard sadly.

Didn't exactly work out for Macao, though.

Unlike Portugal I can't see Thatcher giving it back in the same situation.

[Novus America]

The unfolding confrontation between China’s leaders and Hong Kong’s citizens will provide fresh ammunition to US hardliners who have been advocating an aggressive stance against the Chinese government. Revoking Hong Kong’s privileges would advance that goal, because it would significantly hurt China.

After all, as the Sino-American economic cold war escalates, and rising regulatory and legislative hurdles make it harder for Chinese companies to raise capital in the US, Hong Kong will become immensely valuable to China as an offshore financial center. But if the US decides to withdraw Hong Kong’s privileges on the grounds that Chinese actions no longer justify treating it as a separate entity, the city’s value as a financial center will be fatally impaired. China’s companies will have less access to capital, and the valuations of Chinese state-owned enterprises listed on Hong Kong’s stock exchange will fall.

China Is Courting Disaster in Hong Kong

China doesn't have to worry about the USA.

If the USA couldn't even defeat Vietnam in the field of battle, then it certainly won't be able to defeat China on land.

It the USA were to wage a limited air and sea war, then I expect the people would protest because they'd want their continued access to cheap Chinese goods.

In other words, as long as China remains strongly and largely unified, it cannot be invaded.

You obviously do not understand the Vietnam War.

But moving on from that the US has no desire to invade and occupy China. The PRC is dependent on food, oil and other natural resource imports, as well exports. The PRC economy is much less self sufficient the the US economy.

And we do not need the PRC for cheap throwaway shit.
Literally anything made in the PRC can be made elsewhere. Companies are already moving manufacturing out of the PRC to Mexico and Vietnam (amongst other places).

And PRC runs on greed. Collapse the economy and the state will fail.
Loyalty to the party is no longer based on ideology. Its only reason many support it still is it makes many wealthy.

[Nea Byzantia]

China doesn't have to worry about the USA.

If the USA couldn't even defeat Vietnam in the field of battle, then it certainly won't be able to defeat China on land.

It the USA were to wage a limited air and sea war, then I expect the people would protest because they'd want their continued access to cheap Chinese goods.

In other words, as long as China remains strongly and largely unified, it cannot be invaded.

But moving on from that the US has no desire to invade and occupy China. The PRC is dependent on food, oil and other natural resource imports, as well exports. The PRC economy is much less self sufficient the the US economy.

Beijing is incredibly resource-dependent and that is why they're trying to branch out in alliances with Russia, efforts to establish contacts and control in Africa, not to mention the One Belt One Road Initiative. Their goal isn't to be resource-independent, as that's impossible; their goal is to divest themselves of dependence on America, in particular, and via the above mentioned efforts and initiatives, they're progressing very far in this direction. Countries like Russia, China, and Iran are not powerful enough to take on the United States militarily, economically, or geopolitically in isolation; but together, they could and are forming a geopolitical and economic counterweight to the United States, and the more the United States throws its weight around and bullies other nations with impunity; the more the United States struggles to maintain its international domains with increasing violence and coercion, the more attractive this Eurasian alternative appears. The maintenance of the American Empire is neither sustainable or desirable, and the best thing America can do, is take a step back and put their own house in order. America has no need to wade into the conflicts and internal matters of other nations, as they have everything they need at home, or to the north, in Canada. American Imperialism only benefits a small number of powerful interests, and puts everybody else - including the American People - through a whole lot of needless pain both financial, physical, and emotional.

[Novus America]

But moving on from that the US has no desire to invade and occupy China. The PRC is dependent on food, oil and other natural resource imports, as well exports. The PRC economy is much less self sufficient the the US economy.

Beijing is incredibly resource-dependent and that is why they're trying to branch out in alliances with Russia, efforts to establish contacts and control in Africa, not to mention the One Belt One Road Initiative. Their goal isn't to be resource-independent, as that's impossible; their goal is to divest themselves of dependence on America, in particular, and via the above mentioned efforts and initiatives, they're progressing very far in this direction. Countries like Russia, China, and Iran are not powerful enough to take on the United States militarily, economically, or geopolitically in isolation; but together, they could and are forming a geopolitical and economic counterweight to the United States, and the more the United States throws its weight around and bullies other nations with impunity; the more the United States struggles to maintain its international domains with increasing violence and coercion, the more attractive this Eurasian alternative appears. The maintenance of the American Empire is neither sustainable or desirable, and the best thing America can do, is take a step back and put their own house in order. America has no need to wade into the conflicts and internal matters of other nations, as they have everything they need at home, or to the north, in Canada. American Imperialism only benefits a small number of powerful interests, and puts everybody else - including the American People - through a whole lot of needless pain both financial, physical, and emotional.

You seem to be forgetting that the PRC is engaging in aggressive campaign of economic warfare against the US and literal imperialism (when was the last time the US annexed territory by force) against US allies.

We are under siege, the PRC will not show mercy if we surrender.

We should not start a shooting war but we absolutely should and must counter PRC actions with our own.

The PRC is doing everything possible to weaken us politically and economically, and we should return the favor.

And there is no “Eurasian alternative”. Eurasianism is a meme.
The “Eurasia alternative” is rule from Beijing.
True Russia will become a hapless PRC satellite state.

[Nea Byzantia]

Beijing is incredibly resource-dependent and that is why they're trying to branch out in alliances with Russia, efforts to establish contacts and control in Africa, not to mention the One Belt One Road Initiative. Their goal isn't to be resource-independent, as that's impossible; their goal is to divest themselves of dependence on America, in particular, and via the above mentioned efforts and initiatives, they're progressing very far in this direction. Countries like Russia, China, and Iran are not powerful enough to take on the United States militarily, economically, or geopolitically in isolation; but together, they could and are forming a geopolitical and economic counterweight to the United States, and the more the United States throws its weight around and bullies other nations with impunity; the more the United States struggles to maintain its international domains with increasing violence and coercion, the more attractive this Eurasian alternative appears. The maintenance of the American Empire is neither sustainable or desirable, and the best thing America can do, is take a step back and put their own house in order. America has no need to wade into the conflicts and internal matters of other nations, as they have everything they need at home, or to the north, in Canada. American Imperialism only benefits a small number of powerful interests, and puts everybody else - including the American People - through a whole lot of needless pain both financial, physical, and emotional.

You seem to be forgetting that the PRC is engaging in aggressive campaign of economic warfare against the US and literal imperialism (when was the last time the US annexed territory by force) against US allies.

We are under siege, the PRC will not show mercy if we surrender.

We should not start a shooting war but we absolutely should and must counter PRC actions with our own.

The PRC is doing everything possible to weaken us politically and economically, and we should return the favor.

And there is no “Eurasian alternative”. Eurasianism is a meme.
The “Eurasia alternative” is rule from Beijing.
True Russia will become a hapless PRC satellite state.

By Eurasian alternative, I meant the following...

Nobody said it had to be a single Nation or Empire. It very rarely is, when you're talking about that part of the World. The Russians and Chinese want to revive the Silk Road, and if they do, they will no longer need America. It means that they and their allies can set up their own trade networks and geopolitical institutions to counter American Power and Influence, and that's what's happening. And Hong Kong is part of this too, as the port is a vital choke-point.

[Novus America]

You seem to be forgetting that the PRC is engaging in aggressive campaign of economic warfare against the US and literal imperialism (when was the last time the US annexed territory by force) against US allies.

We are under siege, the PRC will not show mercy if we surrender.

We should not start a shooting war but we absolutely should and must counter PRC actions with our own.

The PRC is doing everything possible to weaken us politically and economically, and we should return the favor.

And there is no “Eurasian alternative”. Eurasianism is a meme.
The “Eurasia alternative” is rule from Beijing.
True Russia will become a hapless PRC satellite state.

By Eurasian alternative, I meant the following...

Nobody said it had to be a single Nation or Empire. It very rarely is, when you're talking about that part of the World. The Russians and Chinese want to revive the Silk Road, and if they do, they will no longer need America. It means that they and their allies can set up their own trade networks and geopolitical institutions to counter American Power and Influence, and that's what's happening. And Hong Kong is part of this too, as the port is a vital choke-point.

All of those are PRC controlled intuitions and ideas that exist solely to benefit the PRC.
Why is being economically controlled by Beijing better?
Russia will be reduced to nothing but a Chinese satellite.
Its economy completely controlled by Beijing.

That is all to move PRC made products out to markets and pull natural resources back to the PRC.

You really think it it is not solely designed as a mercantile structure to feed the PRC?
That the PRC gives a shit about Russia except what it can get from it?

Yes the PRC is trying to build alternate trade structures. And we should work to undermine those, just as the PRC seems to undermine the US. Convince places we are the better alternative to getting Belted and Railroaded by Xi.

What makes the PRC Empire so much better? How is the notoriously anti Christian PRC going to help your view of Eastern Christian unity?

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

[Nea Byzantia]

By Eurasian alternative, I meant the following...

Nobody said it had to be a single Nation or Empire. It very rarely is, when you're talking about that part of the World. The Russians and Chinese want to revive the Silk Road, and if they do, they will no longer need America. It means that they and their allies can set up their own trade networks and geopolitical institutions to counter American Power and Influence, and that's what's happening. And Hong Kong is part of this too, as the port is a vital choke-point.

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

Ergo the events in Hong Kong, and the Trump Administration's ceaseless attempts to go to war with Iran - Iran, Russia and China are the linchpins in this whole "New Silk Road" scheme.

[-Ocelot-]

By Eurasian alternative, I meant the following...

Nobody said it had to be a single Nation or Empire. It very rarely is, when you're talking about that part of the World. The Russians and Chinese want to revive the Silk Road, and if they do, they will no longer need America. It means that they and their allies can set up their own trade networks and geopolitical institutions to counter American Power and Influence, and that's what's happening. And Hong Kong is part of this too, as the port is a vital choke-point.

All of those are PRC controller intuitions and ideas that exist solely to benefit the PRC.
Why is being economically controlled by Beijing better?
Russia will be reduced to nothing but a Chinese satellite.
Its economy completely controlled by Beijing.

Although notice how the “New Silk Road” will largely bypass Russia.
There will be separate infrastructure to move Russian resources into the PRC.

Yes the PRC is trying to build alternate trade structures. And we should work to undermine those, just as the PRC seems to undermine the US. Convince places we are the better alternative to getting Belted and Railroaded by Xi.

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

It's a war alright but the true enemy of the American people are Republicans who want to pit you against each other, while imposing stupid tariffs and making the rich richer.

This economic war Trump started can't end well for the US. The rest of the world will leave America behind, albeit perfectly nicely walled and "protected". You are literally handing your allies and influence over to China, then complain about China getting too strong.

[Nea Byzantia]

All of those are PRC controller intuitions and ideas that exist solely to benefit the PRC.
Why is being economically controlled by Beijing better?
Russia will be reduced to nothing but a Chinese satellite.
Its economy completely controlled by Beijing.

Although notice how the “New Silk Road” will largely bypass Russia.
There will be separate infrastructure to move Russian resources into the PRC.

Yes the PRC is trying to build alternate trade structures. And we should work to undermine those, just as the PRC seems to undermine the US. Convince places we are the better alternative to getting Belted and Railroaded by Xi.

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

It's a war alright but the true enemy of the American people are Republicans who want to pit you against each other, while imposing stupid tariffs and making the rich richer.

This economic war Trump started can't end well for the US. The rest of the world will leave America behind, albeit perfectly nicely walled and "protected". You are literally handing your allies and influence over to China, then complain about China getting too strong.

But North America doesn't actually need anybody else, though, so its not an issue.

[Novus America]

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

Ergo the events in Hong Kong, and the Trump Administration's ceaseless attempts to go to war with Iran - Iran, Russia and China are the linchpins in this whole "New Silk Road" scheme.

Well obviously there is geopolitical maneuvering involved.
But the “New Silk Road” is a hub and scope system with the PRC in the center.
It exists for Beijing and Beijing alone.
The rest are just stuck on Mr. Xi’s wild ride.

[Novus America]

All of those are PRC controller intuitions and ideas that exist solely to benefit the PRC.
Why is being economically controlled by Beijing better?
Russia will be reduced to nothing but a Chinese satellite.
Its economy completely controlled by Beijing.

Although notice how the “New Silk Road” will largely bypass Russia.
There will be separate infrastructure to move Russian resources into the PRC.

Yes the PRC is trying to build alternate trade structures. And we should work to undermine those, just as the PRC seems to undermine the US. Convince places we are the better alternative to getting Belted and Railroaded by Xi.

This is war. Not a shooting war. But it is very much an economic war.
Maybe the PRC will win.
But we should not go down without a fight.

It's a war alright but the true enemy of the American people are Republicans who want to pit you against each other, while imposing stupid tariffs and making the rich richer.

This economic war Trump started can't end well for the US. The rest of the world will leave America behind, albeit perfectly nicely walled and "protected". You are literally handing your allies and influence over to China, then complain about China getting too strong.

Trump did not start it. He just started firing back.

Trade is driving inequality. Who do you think benefits the most from outsourcing?
The rich of course!

Stopping unfair trade is NECESSARY to fight inequality!
How can you support labor laws yet support companies outsourcing to the PRC to undermine them? How can you support environmental laws yet support companies outsourcing to the PRC to undermine them?
How can you support human rights yet support companies outsourcing to the PRC to undermine them?

You CANNOT be in favor of human rights, the environment and labor protections AND support the current global trade structure!
The two are mutually exclusive.

Now Trump has made many mistakes. He needs to leave Mexico alone, play nicer with the EU, and absolutely sanction and tariff the PRC.

[Bengal and Assam]

As a person who took part in civil disobedience, I don't see any reason why Hong Kongers should NOT protest.
I mean, unlike China, the people of Hong Kong have a democratic mindset. So, if only 1200 people are allowed to "elect" the city's leader, the only opinion left to the ordinary good citizens of Hong Kong is taking the streets anyway.

So, I think, if China believes that Hong Kong's democratic way of life is a danger to their authority. For their own sake, they must leave Hong Kong alone. Otherwise, if they turn Hong Kong into "just another Mainland Chinese city", they will have to add 7 million people who challanges the authority of the CCP to their citizen roster LOL... Thus, resulting in they very thing that they desired to avoid.

[Rio Cana]

So it seems the treaty between the UK. and PRC. is being violated. So what happens when treaties are violated.

[Novus America]

So it seems the treaty between the UK. and PRC. is being violated. So what happens when treaties are violated.

Usually nothing.