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Hong Kong

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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In retrospect..

The UK was right to handover HK to China
231
16%
The UK should have kept HK
289
20%
The UK should have set up HK as an independent, democratic state
870
60%
Other
58
4%
 
Total votes : 1448

User avatar
Zurkerx
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 12341
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:01 am

Nakena wrote:
The South Falls wrote:This is a watershed moment for Hong Kong. If China wins, Hong Kong will forever be under their thumb.


This, pretty much.


And it seems they will as, by my knowledge, no cares about HK.
A Golden Civic: The New Pragmatic Libertarian
My Words: Indeed, Indubitably & Malarkey
Retired Admin in NSGS and NS Parliament

Accountant, Author, History Buff, Political Junkie
“Has ambition so eclipsed principle?” ~ Mitt Romney
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Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5389
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:04 am

Zurkerx wrote:
Nakena wrote:
This, pretty much.


And it seems they will as, by my knowledge, no cares about HK.

I do, does that count?
All shall tremble before me

User avatar
Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:08 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
And it seems they will as, by my knowledge, no cares about HK.

I do, does that count?

Depends. Do you have a navy or a trillion-dollar economy to pit against PRC?
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

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Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5389
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:08 am

Tuthina wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:I do, does that count?

Depends. Do you have a navy or a trillion-dollar economy to pit against PRC?

Yes
All shall tremble before me

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Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:09 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Depends. Do you have a navy or a trillion-dollar economy to pit against PRC?

Yes

Than use them for something productive rather than hating on foreign countries.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5389
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:13 am

Purpelia wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:Yes

Than use them for something productive rather than hating on foreign countries.

What else am I supposed to use a dinghy with a shotgun for?
All shall tremble before me

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Auze
Minister
 
Posts: 2076
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Auze » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:17 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Than use them for something productive rather than hating on foreign countries.

What else am I supposed to use a dinghy with a shotgun for?

Conquering Mollosia. Or Liberland, if you want to use the dinghy.
Hello, I'm an Latter-day Saint kid from South Carolina!
In case you're wondering, it's pronounced ['ɑ.ziː].
My political views are best described as "incoherent"

Anyway, how about a game?
[spoiler=Views I guess]RIP LWDT & RWDT. Y'all did not go gentle into that good night.
In general I am a Centrist

I disown most of my previous posts (with a few exceptions)

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:17 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Than use them for something productive rather than hating on foreign countries.

What else am I supposed to use a dinghy with a shotgun for?

1. Ferry food to the poor.
2. Fish for food to give to the poor.
3. Protect Europe from the encroaching migrant hordes at gunpoint.
4. Hunt birds to feed the poor with.
5. Not hate on those foreigners that have done you no wrong.

etc. etc. etc.
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129552
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:18 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Solno wrote:
Britain actually had permanent ownership over parts of HK. The government just decided it would be too hard to split the city between the leased and owned parts so returnees the whole thing in an agreement China is now infringing upon.


That is not how I remember it. The reason they gave it back at the same time is as you said it would have been impossible to split and administer (also the water supply was in the new territories as i remember) but it all had to go back.

China only agreed to respect the different government of the SAR for 25 years, and I think that time is up.

Edit: I see the ceeded timeline, shows what I know.


And the. SAR is for 50 years not 25, so it expires in 2047.

Jayus Ethel, get something right.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

User avatar
Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5389
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:18 am

Purpelia wrote:
Hammer Britannia wrote:What else am I supposed to use a dinghy with a shotgun for?

1. Ferry food to the poor.
2. Fish for food to give to the poor.
3. Protect Europe from the encroaching migrant hordes at gunpoint.
4. Hunt birds to feed the poor with.
5. Not hate on those foreigners that have done you no wrong.

etc. etc. etc.

One of these things are not like the other
All shall tremble before me

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 am

Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 am

Duhon wrote:


... I don't have "a strong need, desire, or craving" to shoot people dead or oppress them alive, Xi does. Do not confuse me with that motherfucker.

I don't think he does, either. But he's perfectly willing to do it, to expand his power; that doesn't mean Xi is joneseing for it.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Purpelia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:20 am

Hammer Britannia wrote:
Purpelia wrote:1. Ferry food to the poor.
2. Fish for food to give to the poor.
3. Protect Europe from the encroaching migrant hordes at gunpoint.
4. Hunt birds to feed the poor with.
5. Not hate on those foreigners that have done you no wrong.

etc. etc. etc.

One of these things are not like the other

Not sure which. I mean, they all boil down to: "Help those who have done you no wrong and are in need and don't hate those that have done you no wrong."
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Hammer Britannia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5389
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:21 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

KMT 2: Electric Boogaloo
All shall tremble before me

User avatar
Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:21 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

Some local forums have been passing recipe for things like Molotov's cocktail, but none remains to be seen in use so far. For the most part, I don't think they're armed with anything more powerful than bricks, mobile phones, or bricked mobile phones.
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

User avatar
Thanatttynia
Senator
 
Posts: 3609
Founded: Nov 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Thanatttynia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:21 am

The UK couldn't adequately defend or sustain Hong Kong without the New Territories. This combined with ongoing American/UN pressure over 'decolonisation' and China's sheer size and location meant the handover was a foregone conclusion; perhaps a decade of civil rights was all that could be expected when dealing with the PRC.

It's extremely tragic what is going on in HK ): I applaud the resolution and determination of HK's people in their fight against autocracy. Here's hoping they succeed...

I would like to see Western governments (especially the UK which has special obligations to HK) do more to stand up to China over such human rights abuses. As of right now, China is not independently capable of facing off combined Western economic pressure, but the West's ravaging psychotic addiction to free markets is allowing them free reign to extend their state's power and soon they may well be able to withstand that pressure. At that point HK will be sacrificed. If anything can be done it has to be done now.
Syng I wolde, butt, alas! decendunt prospera grata.

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The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:22 am

Tuthina wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Let's hope it doesn't end like Tiananmen.

It most probably won't. I doubt even the HK equivalent of SWAT would need to be deployed to disperse the protesters. Hell, it seems to be almost done and the police didn't even get the water cannons online.

They already shot one guy with water cannons.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Tuthina
Senator
 
Posts: 4948
Founded: Jun 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Tuthina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am

The South Falls wrote:
Tuthina wrote:It most probably won't. I doubt even the HK equivalent of SWAT would need to be deployed to disperse the protesters. Hell, it seems to be almost done and the police didn't even get the water cannons online.

They already shot one guy with water cannons.

You sure it's not the one who took a rubber bullet in the face instead?
Call me Reno.
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.

11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!

03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
Rated as Class A: Environmental Utopia by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Human Rights Haven (7/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Partially Free (4/10) by Namor People's Rating Department
Rated as Post-Industrial Nation (48 000 thousands of metric tons of carbon annually) by Syleruian Carbon Output Index
Rated as Category B by Edenist Travel Advisory Guide

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5185
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:26 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

What if Hong Kong just joined up with Taiwan?

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The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:28 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

What if Hong Kong just joined up with Taiwan?

Even more for the PRC to oppress
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:29 am

Tuthina wrote:
The South Falls wrote:They already shot one guy with water cannons.

You sure it's not the one who took a rubber bullet in the face instead?

Raincoat man.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:29 am

Tuthina wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

Some local forums have been passing recipe for things like Molotov's cocktail, but none remains to be seen in use so far. For the most part, I don't think they're armed with anything more powerful than bricks, mobile phones, or bricked mobile phones.


With any luck they'll move up to things past that level. Rudimentary firearms are buildable in near any conditions and ammo, while sketchy, can also be scratch built. Force is the only thing the CCP understands, they're going to keep coming back and taking more and more from Hong Kong if people roll over after a day or two of protests.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 129552
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:30 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Here's hoping our Hong Kong bros embrace the power of the internet and learn to make themselves some weaponry.

What if Hong Kong just joined up with Taiwan?


China civil war 2.0. PRC wins all.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13353
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:30 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Some local forums have been passing recipe for things like Molotov's cocktail, but none remains to be seen in use so far. For the most part, I don't think they're armed with anything more powerful than bricks, mobile phones, or bricked mobile phones.


With any luck they'll move up to things past that level. Rudimentary firearms are buildable in near any conditions and ammo, while sketchy, can also be scratch built. Force is the only thing the CCP understands, they're going to keep coming back and taking more and more from Hong Kong if people roll over after a day or two of protests.

They won't have the power of the PLA, though.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
Neanderthaland
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9295
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:32 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Tuthina wrote:Some local forums have been passing recipe for things like Molotov's cocktail, but none remains to be seen in use so far. For the most part, I don't think they're armed with anything more powerful than bricks, mobile phones, or bricked mobile phones.


With any luck they'll move up to things past that level. Rudimentary firearms are buildable in near any conditions and ammo, while sketchy, can also be scratch built. Force is the only thing the CCP understands, they're going to keep coming back and taking more and more from Hong Kong if people roll over after a day or two of protests.

Surely it would be easier to use Hong Kong's vast black markets to just purchase quality weapons and ammo.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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