Was German Reunification a Mistake?

[Germanyt]

Just politely ask the civilians to leave their homes and move to crowded Berlin slums? Just politely request it?

And now you are strawmanning. There isn't just a binary option of either raping and murdering or pussyfooting around people.

I know youre not advocating murder and rape. Sorry if I made it seem like that. But the reality is that people suffered because the Soviet Union wanted revenge on average Germans and they needed justification to steal land from Poland so they massacred the civilians in the east. Also, the allies occupied Germany and denazified it and rebuilt into a liberal nation for several decades. Dismembering Germany isn't what made Germany liberal. Denazification and Allied occupation is what did it.

[Mojave Confederation]

So, like what happened irl?

Is this specifically about the Treaty of Versailles or the Post-war treaties in general? I have responses for both scenarios, but would like not to waste my time for all of it if the topic is specifically Versailles.

Versailles of course. I don't think Trianon and Sevres affect Germany too much.

[San Carlos Islands]

Germany should of never unified in the first place.

[North German Realm]

Is this specifically about the Treaty of Versailles or the Post-war treaties in general? I have responses for both scenarios, but would like not to waste my time for all of it if the topic is specifically Versailles.

Versailles of course. I don't think Trianon and Sevres affect Germany too much.

Hm. In that case, the military clauses were completely unjustified (though, explainable given the "need" for demilitarization), the occupation clauses were out of norm (especially considering most forms of occupation were either limited to "as long as it takes for you to pay reparations" and a short period of time. Similarly, Germany being forced to admit responsibility (rather than concede defeat, which was and remains the norm) was also out of ordinary. German citizens losing the right to intellectual and private property is also up there.

[Mojave Confederation]

Versailles of course. I don't think Trianon and Sevres affect Germany too much.

Hm. In that case, the military clauses were completely unjustified (though, explainable given the "need" for demilitarization), the occupation clauses were out of norm (especially considering most forms of occupation were either limited to "as long as it takes for you to pay reparations" and a short period of time. Similarly, Germany being forced to admit responsibility (rather than concede defeat, which was and remains the norm) was also out of ordinary. German citizens losing the right to intellectual and private property is also up there.

Wait, why were the military clauses unjustified? I get the rest, but this?

[The Blaatschapen]

Germany should of never unified in the first place.

Northern Germany should have merged with Netherlands in 1815. Southern Germany to Habsburg *nods*

[North German Realm]

Hm. In that case, the military clauses were completely unjustified (though, explainable given the "need" for demilitarization), the occupation clauses were out of norm (especially considering most forms of occupation were either limited to "as long as it takes for you to pay reparations" and a short period of time. Similarly, Germany being forced to admit responsibility (rather than concede defeat, which was and remains the norm) was also out of ordinary. German citizens losing the right to intellectual and private property is also up there.

Wait, why were the military clauses unjustified? I get the rest, but this?

For starters, because it essentially put them at the risk of invasion by any rogue nation (including but not limited to the Soviet Union) and incapable of dealing with any form of violent unrest at home. Then again, that was the intention in the first place

[Eglaecia]

Germany should've never been reunified. It is in Europe's interests that Germany is neutered. It should've been divided much more than it was.

I thought we were past such edgynesses. Not that you'd want to add anything to the monument of your sins, don't you?

What are you talking about? The unified Germany was the cause of so much damage to Europe. Keeping it divided was the best option for the long-term stability of Europe and the world.

[Eglaecia]

Germany should of never unified in the first place.

Northern Germany should have merged with Netherlands in 1815. Southern Germany to Habsburg *nods*

Mmmm I don't think the Habsburgs have a legitimate claim over Bavaria, however Bavaria having become a part of the Habsburg empire and remaining under the control of the House of Wittelsbach would've been good.

[Definitely Not Trumptonium]

There's a bit of irony in mentioning being 'civilized' when your argument rests on turning people's lives upside down because Hans Owned This Land 100 Years Ago.

OR because the Poles owned that land over 70 years ago (a territory that the Polish State still has claims on, though I'm probably wrong about that)

Poland has no claims on Kresy, they were renounced in 1946.

And yes, it is completely uncivilised. You expect tens of millions of people to start learning a new language, live under different laws and be governed by people different to them for no reason whatsoever.

[Thanatttynia]

A mistake for France, UK, Russia perhaps. All countries would have benefited from a weaker Germany. Germany itself is the pre-eminent power in Europe now because it's so much larger and more developed than any other European country. This wouldn't have been the case for either divided-Germany, particularly not the East.

Investment in the East has held the West back in the same way that investment in sustainable development holds unsustainable investment back... i.e. in the short term yes, in the long term no. Obviously there are socio-economic problems with melding two countries like that together again, and deeper cultural ones. I don't really know enough about domestic German politics to say whether reunification is untenable over this century or not.

[North German Realm]

OR because the Poles owned that land over 70 years ago (a territory that the Polish State still has claims on, though I'm probably wrong about that)

Poland has no claims on Kresy, they were renounced in 1946.

And yes, it is completely uncivilised. You expect tens of millions of people to start learning a new language, live under different laws and be governed by people different to them for no reason whatsoever.

Fair enough. I thought Poland still held a claim over Kresy in 1990s. If they didn't, then nevermind all that.

[Nova Cyberia]

I agree on the economic part.

However, East Germans keep being looked down upon by their West German brethen. It was more like an annexation rather than an unificaton, with some similarities to the reconstruction.

I find it very questionable that they are now being blamed for their voting preferences. Much like west europeans like to attack other east europeans over the matter. For many years people have been worked to bring the divided continent together again, it is very arrogant by how their opinions, views and legitimate concerns are being dismissed as evil and backwards.

Indeed. It's rather sad that East Germans have had to endure so much bigotry and disdain.

It's not their fault they were kept under the oppressive yoke of the USSR for over 70 years.

And to the OP: no, reunification was not a mistake.

The only mistake we made was not kicking Russia the fuck out of Eastern Europe before they got nukes.

[The New California Republic]

I agree on the economic part.

However, East Germans keep being looked down upon by their West German brethen. It was more like an annexation rather than an unificaton, with some similarities to the reconstruction.

I find it very questionable that they are now being blamed for their voting preferences. Much like west europeans like to attack other east europeans over the matter. For many years people have been worked to bring the divided continent together again, it is very arrogant by how their opinions, views and legitimate concerns are being dismissed as evil and backwards.

Indeed. It's rather sad that West Germans have had to endure so much bigotry and disdain.

It's not their fault they were kept under the oppressive yoke of the USSR for over 70 years.

Um...

East Germans

[Nova Cyberia]

Indeed. It's rather sad that West Germans have had to endure so much bigotry and disdain.

It's not their fault they were kept under the oppressive yoke of the USSR for over 70 years.

Um...

East Germans

whoops

[Mojave Confederation]

I thought we were past such edgynesses. Not that you'd want to add anything to the monument of your sins, don't you?

What are you talking about? The unified Germany was the cause of so much damage to Europe. Keeping it divided was the best option for the long-term stability of Europe and the world.

So does unified France! and let's not mention unified Great Britain.

[Mojave Confederation]

Whether or not Poland would forcefully expel tens of millions of people after getting Kresy and thus commit ethnic cleansing is on Poland, no? Poland, as a civilized member-state of a modern order could simply not do that if they wanted to.

There's a bit of irony in mentioning being 'civilized' when your argument rests on turning people's lives upside down because Hans Owned This Land 100 Years Ago.

Oh let's not go that route, lest you want to invite the JIDF

[The Blaatschapen]

What are you talking about? The unified Germany was the cause of so much damage to Europe. Keeping it divided was the best option for the long-term stability of Europe and the world.

So does unified France! and let's not mention unified Great Britain.

Unified Spain, unified Russia.

I sense a theme here.

[North German Realm]

So does unified France! and let's not mention unified Great Britain.

Unified Spain, unified Russia.

I sense a theme here.

Unified Netherlands was the bigger thread. Return The Netherlands to the Habsburg!

[Bear Stearns]

I'm down with unifying all of the Germanic countries, because let's be obvious, one Germanic group would come to dominate it.

[The South Falls]

I'm down with unifying all of the Germanic countries, because let's be obvious, one Germanic group would come to dominate it.

(Image)

That's a smaller, more centralized EU.

[Bear Stearns]

I'm down with unifying all of the Germanic countries, because let's be obvious, one Germanic group would come to dominate it.

(Image)

That's a smaller, more centralized EU.

A unified Germanic nation is Greater Anglo-America.

[The South Falls]

That's a smaller, more centralized EU.

A unified Germanic nation is Greater Anglo-America.

No please. I'm not trying to get colonized.

[Bear Stearns]

A unified Germanic nation is Greater Anglo-America.

No please. I'm not trying to get colonized.

>tfw people don't realize that the largest and most influential Germanic language-speaking city in the world is New York City.

>tfw Anglo-Saxons are more adept at rallying all Germanics on their side than Prussians are

[Kvatchdom]

Germany should never have been created, so having it split in two is a good compromise to me.