NationStates

Germany should've never been reunified. It is in Europe's interests that Germany is neutered. It should've been divided much more than it was.

The east/west division of Germany was a totally inorganic division of the country that should have never happened. WW2 should have never happened. If the allies in WW1 would have just followed standard postwar protocol in dealing with Germany it probably would have worked fine

Flaxxony wrote:The east/west division of Germany was a totally inorganic division of the country that should have never happened. WW2 should have never happened. If the allies in WW1 would have just followed standard postwar protocol in dealing with Germany it probably would have worked fine

WW2 shouldn't have happened but the Germans started it.

The New California Republic wrote:

Geneviev wrote:German reunification was not a mistake. The problems that were caused by reunification could have been prevented if Germany had never been divided. These problems are very real, but the division of the German people was much worse.

I think that some kind of division was inevitable due to the way that WW2 in Europe progressed on two fronts towards Germany; it was just a question of how it was going to be divided, and what form said division would take.

Germanyt wrote:Austria remains outside of Germany, and the traditional German lands ethnically and culturally cleansed by Stalin remain lost.

There was a price to be paid for trying to annex half of Europe, and that was part of the price I'm afraid.

That may be true, but the division of Germany into two different countries for such a long time was unnecessary and a mistake.

The New California Republic wrote:

Geneviev wrote:German reunification was not a mistake. The problems that were caused by reunification could have been prevented if Germany had never been divided. These problems are very real, but the division of the German people was much worse.

I think that some kind of division was inevitable due to the way that WW2 in Europe progressed on two fronts towards Germany; it was just a question of how it was going to be divided, and what form said division would take.

Germanyt wrote:Austria remains outside of Germany, and the traditional German lands ethnically and culturally cleansed by Stalin remain lost.

There was a price to be paid for trying to annex half of Europe, and that was part of the price I'm afraid.

Division would not have occurred if the allies kicked the Soviets out of Eastern Europe like Patton wanted. Also, don't justify the murder and rape and ethnic cleansing of millions of men, women, and children by saying "there was a price to pay". The price to pay was reparations and rebuilding, not the rape of Prussia.

Yes
Germany should had stayed being city states

Eglaecia wrote:

Flaxxony wrote:The east/west division of Germany was a totally inorganic division of the country that should have never happened. WW2 should have never happened. If the allies in WW1 would have just followed standard postwar protocol in dealing with Germany it probably would have worked fine

WW2 shouldn't have happened but the Germans started it.

So the Germans were asking for it, huh?

Germanyt wrote:

Eglaecia wrote:WW2 shouldn't have happened but the Germans started it.

So the Germans were asking for it, huh?

World War 2 started because Hitler decided to invade Poland, so that war was actually Germany's fault.

Geneviev wrote:

Germanyt wrote:So the Germans were asking for it, huh?

World War 2 started because Hitler decided to invade Poland, so that war was actually Germany's fault.

It was the Nazis' fault.

Germanyt wrote:

Geneviev wrote:World War 2 started because Hitler decided to invade Poland, so that war was actually Germany's fault.

It was the Nazis' fault.

That is true. Sadly, they were theoretically Germans.

Eglaecia wrote:Germany should've never been reunified. It is in Europe's interests that Germany is neutered. It should've been divided much more than it was.

I thought we were past such edgynesses. Not that you'd want to add anything to the monument of your sins, don't you?

Germanyt wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:There was a price to be paid for trying to annex half of Europe, and that was part of the price I'm afraid.

Also, don't justify the murder and rape and ethnic cleansing of millions of men, women, and children by saying "there was a price to pay". The price to pay was reparations and rebuilding, not the rape of Prussia.

Moving the goalposts I see. I never said I agreed with how it was done.

Germanyt wrote:

Geneviev wrote:World War 2 started because Hitler decided to invade Poland, so that war was actually Germany's fault.

It was the Nazis' fault.

Not this meme again. The "Nazis" didn't fight on the two fronts. The Germans did. And, until late into the war, they pretty openly supported the war effort (and policies taken by the Nazi regime) too.

Nakena wrote:

Eglaecia wrote:Germany should've never been reunified. It is in Europe's interests that Germany is neutered. It should've been divided much more than it was.

I thought we were past such edgynesses. Not that you'd want to add anything to the monument of your sins, don't you?

It's a legitimate view. Stupid as hell and edgy as fuck, but still a legitimate view.

North German Realm wrote:

Nakena wrote:
I thought we were past such edgynesses. Not that you'd want to add anything to the monument of your sins, don't you?

It's a legitimate view. Stupid as hell and edgy as fuck, but still a legitimate view.

Like separated into a Greater Bavaria and a North German Realm perhaps?

Nakena wrote:

North German Realm wrote:It's a legitimate view. Stupid as hell and edgy as fuck, but still a legitimate view.

Like separated in Bavaria and a North German Realm perhaps?

In my defense, It was certainly a possibility at the time my PoD happens in

But in all seriousness, the view that "The Unified German Realm is against the interests of literally everyone else in the European Continent who considered being bullies to the Small States a continental hobby for centuries" is really not that weird for a non-German European to have.

North German Realm wrote:

Nakena wrote:
Like separated in Bavaria and a North German Realm perhaps?

In my defense, It was certainly a possibility at the time my PoD happens in

But in all seriousness, the view that "The Unified German Realm is against the interests of literally everyone else in the European Continent who considered being bullies to the Small States a continental hobby for centuries" is really not that weird for a non-German European to have.

The same could be said about Italy who was divided into many city states for the longest time. Didn Machiavelli wrote also an eassy where he called to expel the barbarians?

Flaxxony wrote:The east/west division of Germany was a totally inorganic division of the country that should have never happened. WW2 should have never happened. If the allies in WW1 would have just followed standard postwar protocol in dealing with Germany it probably would have worked fine

uh, what's standard postwar protocol of the time to the First Great War?

Mojave Confederation wrote:

Flaxxony wrote:The east/west division of Germany was a totally inorganic division of the country that should have never happened. WW2 should have never happened. If the allies in WW1 would have just followed standard postwar protocol in dealing with Germany it probably would have worked fine

uh, what's standard postwar protocol of the time to the First Great War?

The Losing party concedes defeat, pays mild reparations (which is typically dependent on how much destruction there's been), may possibly concede territory (but that's nowhere as simple as "I want this land, gimme". It needs justifications). The two parties exchange prisoners and, provided there's been an annexation, give the people of the annexed area the opportunity to leave the annexed area.

Nakena wrote:

North German Realm wrote:In my defense, It was certainly a possibility at the time my PoD happens in

But in all seriousness, the view that "The Unified German Realm is against the interests of literally everyone else in the European Continent who considered being bullies to the Small States a continental hobby for centuries" is really not that weird for a non-German European to have.

The same could be said about Italy who was divided into many city states for the longest time. Didn Machiavelli wrote also an eassy where he called to expel the barbarians?

Eh, don't blame me for the hypocrisy of Europeans, not treating Italian unification the same as Germany.

North German Realm wrote:

Mojave Confederation wrote:uh, what's standard postwar protocol of the time to the First Great War?

The Losing party concedes defeat, pays mild reparations (which is typically dependent on how much destruction there's been), may possibly concede territory (but that's nowhere as simple as "I want this land, gimme". It needs justifications). The two parties exchange prisoners and, provided there's been an annexation, give the people of the annexed area the opportunity to leave the annexed area.

So, like what happened irl?

Mojave Confederation wrote:

North German Realm wrote:The Losing party concedes defeat, pays mild reparations (which is typically dependent on how much destruction there's been), may possibly concede territory (but that's nowhere as simple as "I want this land, gimme". It needs justifications). The two parties exchange prisoners and, provided there's been an annexation, give the people of the annexed area the opportunity to leave the annexed area.

So, like what happened irl?

Is this specifically about the Treaty of Versailles or the Post-war treaties in general? I have responses for both scenarios, but would like not to waste my time for all of it if the topic is specifically Versailles.

The New California Republic wrote:

Germanyt wrote:Also, don't justify the murder and rape and ethnic cleansing of millions of men, women, and children by saying "there was a price to pay". The price to pay was reparations and rebuilding, not the rape of Prussia.

Moving the goalposts I see. I never said I agreed with how it was done.

Just politely ask the civilians to leave their homes and move to crowded Berlin slums? Just politely request it?

Germanyt wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:Moving the goalposts I see. I never said I agreed with how it was done.

Just politely ask the civilians to leave their homes and move to crowded Berlin slums? Just politely request it?

And now you are strawmanning. There isn't just a binary option of either raping and murdering or pussyfooting around people.

Nakena wrote:

North German Realm wrote:In my defense, It was certainly a possibility at the time my PoD happens in

But in all seriousness, the view that "The Unified German Realm is against the interests of literally everyone else in the European Continent who considered being bullies to the Small States a continental hobby for centuries" is really not that weird for a non-German European to have.

The same could be said about Italy who was divided into many city states for the longest time. Didn Machiavelli wrote also an eassy where he called to expel the barbarians?

Expel the barbarossians