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Nazis disrupt Detroit gay pride parade

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:
ITT person with horrifyingly terrible political beliefs is mad at others for having horrifyingly terrible political beliefs.

:roll:


Wow, you really DESTROYED me with FACTS and LOGIC by equating me to Nazis. 10/10 as always, Tel.

Necroghastia wrote:
Wanting to create another Charlottesville incident is perfectly legal and definitely not incitement to violence or conspiracy to commit murder, obviously.


As we all know, the Nazis actually came to Detroit's Pride Parade with rifles and other weapons to celebrate the hardships and struggles the LGBTQ+ community has had to face historically and still faces every day! They totally wouldn't've caused harm to anyone if the police weren't there to act as security, because we all know the Nazis have the best track record ever when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community! :roll:


Unfortunately we both know I haven't. You'll still be here, advocating horrors tomorrow.
Last edited by Telconi on Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:54 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying they wouldn't.

What is the purpose of these bands of armed thugs to show up at Detroit Pride with rifles then? Could they have protested the event without coming armed to the teeth and looking to shoot things up? Should the state endeavour for the sake of every citizen under its protection to prevent bands of armed thugs from intimidating other citizens?

They would have risked attack from antifa.
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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:55 pm

Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Wow, you really DESTROYED me with FACTS and LOGIC by equating me to Nazis. 10/10 as always, Tel.



As we all know, the Nazis actually came to Detroit's Pride Parade with rifles and other weapons to celebrate the hardships and struggles the LGBTQ+ community has had to face historically and still faces every day! They totally wouldn't've caused harm to anyone if the police weren't there to act as security, because we all know the Nazis have the best track record ever when it comes to the LGBTQ+ community! :roll:


Unfortunately we both know I haven't. You'll still be here, advocating horrors tomorrow.


It's probably not obvious to you, but I'm kinda dying of laughter at my desk right now due to the sheer stupidity of this statement.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 pm

Novus America wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Sure it is. Conspiracy is a thing in US law.


Conspiracy requires more than just wanting to do something:
https://www.justia.com/criminal/offense ... onspiracy/


Like deciding to kill people then carrying a weapon?

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:56 pm

Auze wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Wanting to do something is not a crime. We do not have thought police.
And if they commit a crime toss them in jail for life. Or hang them after a fair trial.

Lethal injection, firing squad, and the electric chair are all still options (depending on where you are in the US), but hanging isn't.


“Hang them” is a generic term for the death penalty as well.
Also it is a legal method in New Hampshire.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:57 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Unfortunately we both know I haven't. You'll still be here, advocating horrors tomorrow.


It's probably not obvious to you, but I'm kinda dying of laughter at my desk right now due to the sheer stupidity of this statement.


That's unfortunate.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:59 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Conspiracy requires more than just wanting to do something:
https://www.justia.com/criminal/offense ... onspiracy/


Like deciding to kill people then carrying a weapon?


Oh, if two people agreed to commit a murder, and walked out with a gun, yes that would likely be conspiracy. But do you have proof they agreed to commit a murder instead of trying to look scary? If you do please contact the Michigan State Police.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Torrocca
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:59 pm

Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's probably not obvious to you, but I'm kinda dying of laughter at my desk right now due to the sheer stupidity of this statement.


That's unfortunate.


Maybe for you. Luckily for me, as I know I'm not actually anywhere remotely morally equivalent to Nazis like you're trying to paint me as, it's incredibly stress-relieving.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Necroghastia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:00 pm

Novus America wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Sure it is. Conspiracy is a thing in US law.


Conspiracy requires more than just wanting to do something:
https://www.justia.com/criminal/offense ... onspiracy/


So you have to do something like, for example, plan a mass murder, get some weapons, and go to the place where you're planning to commit said crime?
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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 pm

Novus America wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Like deciding to kill people then carrying a weapon?


Oh, if two people agreed to commit a murder, and walked out with a gun, yes that would likely be conspiracy. But do you have proof they agreed to commit a murder instead of trying to look scary? If you do please contact the Michigan State Police.


I don't. And you know that.

I was simply arguing against your position that simply wanting to commit a crime isn't a crime in and of itself. It can be. You can want to commit a crime and not break any laws and still be arrested and successfully prosecuted.

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Jakker
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Founded: May 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:02 pm

Diopolis wrote:You know, the activities antifa engages in when they're not shutting down whole cities for no discernible reason. Should all be put up against a wall and shot like the threat to public order they are.


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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:03 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Conspiracy requires more than just wanting to do something:
https://www.justia.com/criminal/offense ... onspiracy/


So you have to do something like, for example, plan a mass murder, get some weapons, and go to the place where you're planning to commit said crime?


BuT hOw CaN wE sAy ThAt ThEsE NaZiS aCtUaLLy HaD pLaNs To MaSs MuRdEr LgBtQ+ PeOpLe?!?!?!11!!?!
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Nova Cyberia
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:03 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:It's funny when you realize that Torra wants them arrested despite not actually breaking any laws.

Sounds pretty authoritarian, tbqh.

You know if an armed band of Nazis with assault rifles barged into the street we would call it an insurrection...
Apparently not in America though

Because they're American citizens and, like every other American citizen, they have 2nd Amendment rights.

This isn't WW2. We aren't at war with Nazis right now.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:04 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Telconi wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying they wouldn't.

What is the purpose of these bands of armed thugs to show up at Detroit Pride with rifles then? Could they have protested the event without coming armed to the teeth and looking to shoot things up? Should the state endeavour for the sake of every citizen under its protection to prevent bands of armed thugs from intimidating other citizens?


Absolutely they could have shown up without a few carrying guns.
But open carry is apparently legal in Detroit.

I mean you could ban open carry altogether, but not just for certain groups.
Though I would not do it over this.

And yes, the state did exactly what it was supposed to do.
Heavy police presence is a good way to protect parades.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nova Cyberia
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:04 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
So you have to do something like, for example, plan a mass murder, get some weapons, and go to the place where you're planning to commit said crime?


BuT hOw CaN wE sAy ThAt ThEsE NaZiS aCtUaLLy HaD pLaNs To MaSs MuRdEr LgBtQ+ PeOpLe?!?!?!11!!?!

You know someone actually needs to commit a crime before you can arrest them.

I know this irritates you, but it's true. Arbitrary arrest is tyranny.
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:07 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:

You know someone actually needs to commit a crime before you can arrest them.

I know this irritates you, but it's true. Arbitrary arrest is tyranny.


Hmm, yes, let's stop the Nazis after they've begun accomplishing their goals. From what I remember, in fact, I remember that that went perfectly swimmingly the last time we waited until the Nazis began committing atrocities to stop them!
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:07 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Oh, if two people agreed to commit a murder, and walked out with a gun, yes that would likely be conspiracy. But do you have proof they agreed to commit a murder instead of trying to look scary? If you do please contact the Michigan State Police.


I don't. And you know that.

I was simply arguing against your position that simply wanting to commit a crime isn't a crime in and of itself. It can be. You can want to commit a crime and not break any laws and still be arrested and successfully prosecuted.


Not really. You can think and want whatever you want.
A conspiracy of one is impossible (though a great name of an Offspring album).
Agreeing to commit a crime with another person and taking some ACTION towards it is a crime though.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Novus America wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
I don't. And you know that.

I was simply arguing against your position that simply wanting to commit a crime isn't a crime in and of itself. It can be. You can want to commit a crime and not break any laws and still be arrested and successfully prosecuted.


Not really. You can think and want whatever you want.
A conspiracy of one is impossible (though a great name of an Offspring album).
Agreeing to commit a crime with another person and taking some ACTION towards it is a crime though.


That's exactly what I said.

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Nova Cyberia
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Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:You know someone actually needs to commit a crime before you can arrest them.

I know this irritates you, but it's true. Arbitrary arrest is tyranny.


Hmm, yes, let's stop the Nazis after they've begun accomplishing their goals. From what I remember, in fact, I remember that that went perfectly swimmingly the last time we waited until the Nazis began committing atrocities to stop them!

Hm, if only we had government agencies whose job it is to deal with threats to national security.

Something like an FBI or a Department of Homeland Security...
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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Cappuccina
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:11 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:You know someone actually needs to commit a crime before you can arrest them.

I know this irritates you, but it's true. Arbitrary arrest is tyranny.


Hmm, yes, let's stop the Nazis after they've begun accomplishing their goals. From what I remember, in fact, I remember that that went perfectly swimmingly the last time we waited until the Nazis began committing atrocities to stop them!


So, what would you have done to everyone who identifying themselves as a "Neo-Nazi"? Would you support hunting a witch-hunt?
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Torrocca
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Nova Cyberia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Hmm, yes, let's stop the Nazis after they've begun accomplishing their goals. From what I remember, in fact, I remember that that went perfectly swimmingly the last time we waited until the Nazis began committing atrocities to stop them!

Hm, if only we had government agencies whose job it is to deal with threats to national security.

Something like an FBI or a Department of Homeland Security...


Y'know, it's really weird, but I could've sworn a second ago you were calling the use of state apparatuses to stop Nazis "authoritarian". Funny how your tune changes when you think you can pull a """clever""" "gotcha!" and circlejerk about AntiFA.
Last edited by Torrocca on Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Novus America
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Posts: 26775
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
So you have to do something like, for example, plan a mass murder, get some weapons, and go to the place where you're planning to commit said crime?


BuT hOw CaN wE sAy ThAt ThEsE NaZiS aCtUaLLy HaD pLaNs To MaSs MuRdEr LgBtQ+ PeOpLe?!?!?!11!!?!


These neo Nazis are not those Nazis.
Yes Nazis are disgusting people with evil beliefs. But most are just edgy wannabes.
Sure we absolutely should keep an eye on them, have police infiltrate their groups, and arrest them if the actually commit a crime, including conspiracy and...

Shit I think we did this about a thousand times!

If you have evidence these guys were planning a crime contact the Michigan State Police with said evidence.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26254
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:13 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Hmm, yes, let's stop the Nazis after they've begun accomplishing their goals. From what I remember, in fact, I remember that that went perfectly swimmingly the last time we waited until the Nazis began committing atrocities to stop them!


So, what would you have done to everyone who identifying themselves as a "Neo-Nazi"? Would you support hunting a witch-hunt?


Get rid of them by whatever means are necessary to do so.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Washington Resistance Army
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:13 pm

Step away for a few minutes and the mods just do my boy Dio like that, smh

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Nova Cyberia
Senator
 
Posts: 4456
Founded: May 06, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Cyberia » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:14 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Nova Cyberia wrote:Hm, if only we had government agencies whose job it is to deal with threats to national security.

Something like an FBI or a Department of Homeland Security...


Y'know, it's really weird, but I could've sworn a second ago you were calling the use of state apparatuses to stop Nazis "authoritarian". Funny how your tune changes when you think you can pull a """clever""" "gotcha!" and circlejerk about AntiFA.

You want to arbitrarily arrest people. I don't.

I just think all your hysteria over Nazis is funny when we have dedicated and well-funded government agencies whose entire job it is to protect us from extremist organizations.

Guess we don't need Antifa after all.

Also, nice failed attempt at a gotcha lmao
Yes, yes, I get it. I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it
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