MAGAThread XVI: Raising the Barr

[Telconi]

If the Senate convicts Trump, I will livestream me eating my beloved baseball cap from Pearl Harbour. Absolutely, never, ever, happening. Not with the Republicans in charge or it.

I think it's possible, if this Ukraine thing makes Trump look guilty enough. That's probably not likely, though.

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

[San Lumen]

Nah, but they're also a group that is informed by the Nixon thing, who have spent a lot of time convincing themselves that it was just handled wrong. Without that, I don't know that you get the 'close the ranks' strategy the emerged to protect Reagan and Republicans since.


Oh holy crap what an amazing shit show that would be if he left the party and refused to step down. Like...how would they even replace him on the ballot? This doesn't seem likely but possible. I could even see him beating whatever sock puppet they get to stand against him, but maybe still leading to it causing a 1984 style landslide for the Democratic candidate.

I mean none of this is super likely. But not impossible.

It would be 1912 all over again.

I would love that. It would also likely mean a catastrophe for republicans downballot

I think it's possible, if this Ukraine thing makes Trump look guilty enough. That's probably not likely, though.

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

Pence does terribly in head to head matchups as well.

[Telconi]

It would be 1912 all over again.

I would love that. It would also likely mean a catastrophe for republicans downballot

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

Pence does terribly in head to head matchups as well.

Guess we had best stick by Donald then.

[Ifreann]

I think it's possible, if this Ukraine thing makes Trump look guilty enough. That's probably not likely, though.

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

A loaf of bread would look more promising than Pence come election day.

[Telconi]

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

A loaf of bread would look more promising than Pence come election day.

Well to you. But your views are hardly reasonable. And you cannot effect our elections anyhow, making them moot.

[Gormwood]

I think they'll remove him if Pence looks more promising than him come election day.

A loaf of bread would look more promising than Pence come election day.

A loaf of bread has actual contrast unlike Pence.

[Zurkerx]

Ivanka could whisper in his ear, "Daddy, you can resign and then run as an independent."

Oh holy crap what an amazing shit show that would be if he left the party and refused to step down. Like...how would they even replace him on the ballot? This doesn't seem likely but possible. I could even see him beating whatever sock puppet they get to stand against him, but maybe still leading to it causing a 1984 style landslide for the Democratic candidate.

I mean none of this is super likely. But not impossible.

It wouldn't be surprising though if he were to leave the Republican Party during his term and stayed, I don't think Republicans would be as fearful to remove him. Of course, Trump would automatically get 30-35% of the vote given his base but he and the Republican would split the vote and boom, a Democrat wins like it's 1912. It would also damage the Republican Party for years too though they would recover, under a new ideology of course.

[Gormwood]

Oh holy crap what an amazing shit show that would be if he left the party and refused to step down. Like...how would they even replace him on the ballot? This doesn't seem likely but possible. I could even see him beating whatever sock puppet they get to stand against him, but maybe still leading to it causing a 1984 style landslide for the Democratic candidate.

I mean none of this is super likely. But not impossible.

It wouldn't be surprising though if he were to leave the Republican Party during his term and stayed, I don't think Republicans would be as fearful to remove him. Of course, Trump would automatically get 30-35% of the vote given his base but he and the Republican would split the vote and boom, a Democrat wins like it's 1912. It would also damage the Republican Party for years too though they would recover, under a new ideology of course.

Donnie is so full of himself is it very probable he could do that if he thought the GOP insufficiently kisses his orange ass on the impeachment.

[Ifreann]

A loaf of bread would look more promising than Pence come election day.

Well to you. But your views are hardly reasonable. And you cannot effect our elections anyhow, making them moot.

I dunno, I hear foreigners interfere in your politics all the time.

[Telconi]

Well to you. But your views are hardly reasonable. And you cannot effect our elections anyhow, making them moot.

I dunno, I hear foreigners interfere in your politics all the time.

Are you Ifreann Vladimirovich Putin all of a sudden?

[Gormwood]

To steer the topic back away from passive-aggressive baiting...

... this just keeps getting better.

Indicted Giuliani associate worked on behalf of Ukrainian oligarch Firtash

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One of the two Florida businessmen who helped U.S. President Donald Trump’s personal attorney investigate his political rival, Democrat Joe Biden, also has been working for the legal team of a Ukrainian oligarch who faces bribery charges in the United States, according to attorneys for the businessmen and the oligarch.

Lev Parnas, one of the two associates of Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, served as a translator for lawyers representing oligarch Dmytro Firtash. Parnas was arrested on Thursday along with the other Florida businessman, Igor Fruman, on unrelated charges that included illegally funneling $325,000 to a political action committee supporting pro-Trump candidates.

Both men had worked in an unspecified capacity for Firtash before Parnas joined the Ukrainian’s legal team, according to a person familiar with the Florida men’s business dealings with Firtash.

The Floridians’ connection to indicted oligarch Firtash injects an intriguing new character into the rapidly unfolding drama surrounding the effort to impeach Trump.

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives launched the impeachment inquiry, the first step in unseating a U.S. president, over allegations that Trump pressured the Ukrainian president to help investigate Biden, a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Giuliani was probing discredited allegations that Biden, when he was vice president, sought the firing of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor to halt the investigation of a gas company on which his son, Hunter Biden, was a board member. The Bidens have denied the claims, and the Trump camp has produced no evidence to support the assertions.

Firtash, one of Ukraine’s wealthiest businessmen, is battling extradition by U.S. authorities on bribery charges from Vienna, where he has lived for five years.

Federal prosecutors in Illinois said in court papers in 2017 that Firtash was an “upper-echelon” associate of Russian organized crime. He was indicted in 2013 and charged with bribing Indian officials for access to titanium mines. Firtash has denied any wrongdoing.

Firtash was “financing” the activities of Parnas and Fruman, the source familiar with their business dealings said. The source did not detail their specific work for the oligarch or how much money he had paid them and over what period.

U.S. lawmakers have sought to question the pair about their involvement in Giuliani’s investigation as part of the impeachment inquiry. Giuliani told Reuters in an interview that Parnas and Fruman - U.S. citizens who were born in Ukraine and Belarus, respectively - had helped “find people for me in Ukraine.”

In recent months, Parnas was working for Firtash’s legal team, Joe DiGenova and Victoria Toensing. The firm worked on Firtash’s criminal and extradition cases.

“Mr. Parnas was retained by DiGenova & Toensing, LLP as an interpreter in order to communicate with their client Mr. Firtash, who does not speak English,” the Washington-based firm said in a statement.

A spokesman for the firm said Fruman was not retained in any capacity. DiGenova and Toensing did not comment further on Firtash’s business dealings with the two men in response to questions from Reuters.

John Dowd, the lawyer representing Parnas and Fruman, confirmed to Reuters that Parnas had worked for Firtash’s legal team as an interpreter. But Dowd also told the U.S. Congress that both men worked for DiGenova and Toensing.

On Oct. 3, Dowd wrote Congress to say the two men could not provide certain information about Ukraine because they were partially covered by attorney-client and other legal privileges. Dowd based the privilege claim on the fact that the two men assisted lawyers DiGenova and Toensing; that they had worked for Giuliani; and that Giuliani had previously represented them in their personal and business affairs.

Dowd’s letter did not mention Firtash. He declined to respond to a request to clarify whether one or both of his clients worked for Firtash’s legal team.

Parnas’s role as an interpreter for DiGenova and Toensing was reported on Thursday by the Wall Street Journal.

FLIGHTS TO VIENNA
The person familiar with Parnas and Fruman’s business affairs told Reuters that both men had been working for Firtash for several months before Parnas joined the Ukrainian mogul’s legal team, and that Firtash has paid their expenses in the past. Their costs include private jet charters in the United States and foreign travel to Vienna, according to the source, who is familiar with their finances.

Giuliani told Reuters the two men had been to Vienna - where Firtash lives - three to six times in the last two months. Giuliani declined to comment on the reasons for their travels. He said he did not know about any business relationship between Firtash and the two men that helped him investigate Biden.

“They could be involved in business with each other,” Giuliani said. “It’s possible. I don’t know. They may be involved in his defense.”

Firtash is a former supporter of Ukraine’s ousted pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovich. He made a fortune selling Russian gas to the Kiev government. An Austrian court in June cleared the way for his extradition to the United States, but Firtash’s legal team continues to fight it.

In an interview with Reuters last month, well before his arrest, Parnas said Firtash had been framed by U.S. prosecutors and diplomats.

“They took an innocent man like Dmytro Firtash and they painted him out to be  this bad old Mafia  guy,  which he’s obviously not. He’s one of the most honest businessmen out there.  Incredible businessman.”

Parnas told Reuters that Firtash was the victim of a cabal that he alleges was involved in suppressing corruption by Joe Biden and his son in Ukraine. “Same people involved,” he said. “Same characters.”

Parnas declined to comment on the specific work he performed for Firtash, referring questions to the oligarch’s lawyers, Toensing and DiGenova.

[Cannot think of a name]

To steer the topic back away from passive-aggressive baiting...

... this just keeps getting better.

Indicted Giuliani associate worked on behalf of Ukrainian oligarch Firtash

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One of the two Florida businessmen who helped U.S. President Donald Trump’s personal attorney investigate his political rival, Democrat Joe Biden, also has been working for the legal team of a Ukrainian oligarch who faces bribery charges in the United States, according to attorneys for the businessmen and the oligarch.

Lev Parnas, one of the two associates of Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, served as a translator for lawyers representing oligarch Dmytro Firtash. Parnas was arrested on Thursday along with the other Florida businessman, Igor Fruman, on unrelated charges that included illegally funneling $325,000 to a political action committee supporting pro-Trump candidates.

Both men had worked in an unspecified capacity for Firtash before Parnas joined the Ukrainian’s legal team, according to a person familiar with the Florida men’s business dealings with Firtash.

The Floridians’ connection to indicted oligarch Firtash injects an intriguing new character into the rapidly unfolding drama surrounding the effort to impeach Trump.

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives launched the impeachment inquiry, the first step in unseating a U.S. president, over allegations that Trump pressured the Ukrainian president to help investigate Biden, a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Giuliani was probing discredited allegations that Biden, when he was vice president, sought the firing of Ukraine’s chief prosecutor to halt the investigation of a gas company on which his son, Hunter Biden, was a board member. The Bidens have denied the claims, and the Trump camp has produced no evidence to support the assertions.

Firtash, one of Ukraine’s wealthiest businessmen, is battling extradition by U.S. authorities on bribery charges from Vienna, where he has lived for five years.

Federal prosecutors in Illinois said in court papers in 2017 that Firtash was an “upper-echelon” associate of Russian organized crime. He was indicted in 2013 and charged with bribing Indian officials for access to titanium mines. Firtash has denied any wrongdoing.

Firtash was “financing” the activities of Parnas and Fruman, the source familiar with their business dealings said. The source did not detail their specific work for the oligarch or how much money he had paid them and over what period.

U.S. lawmakers have sought to question the pair about their involvement in Giuliani’s investigation as part of the impeachment inquiry. Giuliani told Reuters in an interview that Parnas and Fruman - U.S. citizens who were born in Ukraine and Belarus, respectively - had helped “find people for me in Ukraine.”

In recent months, Parnas was working for Firtash’s legal team, Joe DiGenova and Victoria Toensing. The firm worked on Firtash’s criminal and extradition cases.

“Mr. Parnas was retained by DiGenova & Toensing, LLP as an interpreter in order to communicate with their client Mr. Firtash, who does not speak English,” the Washington-based firm said in a statement.

A spokesman for the firm said Fruman was not retained in any capacity. DiGenova and Toensing did not comment further on Firtash’s business dealings with the two men in response to questions from Reuters.

John Dowd, the lawyer representing Parnas and Fruman, confirmed to Reuters that Parnas had worked for Firtash’s legal team as an interpreter. But Dowd also told the U.S. Congress that both men worked for DiGenova and Toensing.

On Oct. 3, Dowd wrote Congress to say the two men could not provide certain information about Ukraine because they were partially covered by attorney-client and other legal privileges. Dowd based the privilege claim on the fact that the two men assisted lawyers DiGenova and Toensing; that they had worked for Giuliani; and that Giuliani had previously represented them in their personal and business affairs.

Dowd’s letter did not mention Firtash. He declined to respond to a request to clarify whether one or both of his clients worked for Firtash’s legal team.

Parnas’s role as an interpreter for DiGenova and Toensing was reported on Thursday by the Wall Street Journal.

FLIGHTS TO VIENNA
The person familiar with Parnas and Fruman’s business affairs told Reuters that both men had been working for Firtash for several months before Parnas joined the Ukrainian mogul’s legal team, and that Firtash has paid their expenses in the past. Their costs include private jet charters in the United States and foreign travel to Vienna, according to the source, who is familiar with their finances.

Giuliani told Reuters the two men had been to Vienna - where Firtash lives - three to six times in the last two months. Giuliani declined to comment on the reasons for their travels. He said he did not know about any business relationship between Firtash and the two men that helped him investigate Biden.

“They could be involved in business with each other,” Giuliani said. “It’s possible. I don’t know. They may be involved in his defense.”

Firtash is a former supporter of Ukraine’s ousted pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovich. He made a fortune selling Russian gas to the Kiev government. An Austrian court in June cleared the way for his extradition to the United States, but Firtash’s legal team continues to fight it.

In an interview with Reuters last month, well before his arrest, Parnas said Firtash had been framed by U.S. prosecutors and diplomats.

“They took an innocent man like Dmytro Firtash and they painted him out to be  this bad old Mafia  guy,  which he’s obviously not. He’s one of the most honest businessmen out there.  Incredible businessman.”

Parnas told Reuters that Firtash was the victim of a cabal that he alleges was involved in suppressing corruption by Joe Biden and his son in Ukraine. “Same people involved,” he said. “Same characters.”

Parnas declined to comment on the specific work he performed for Firtash, referring questions to the oligarch’s lawyers, Toensing and DiGenova.

I'm kinda looking forward to the "I didn't even know Giuliani that well" phase of this play.

[Gormwood]

To steer the topic back away from passive-aggressive baiting...

... this just keeps getting better.

Indicted Giuliani associate worked on behalf of Ukrainian oligarch Firtash

I'm kinda looking forward to the "I didn't even know Giuliani that well" phase of this play.

"All he did was fetch me coffee!"

[Cannot think of a name]

I'm kinda looking forward to the "I didn't even know Giuliani that well" phase of this play.

"All he did was fetch me coffee!"

"He doesn't hold an official position in the administration. Whatever he does is of his own volition. In fact, we don't know why you guys kept talking to him about us. What's the liberal media's obsession with Giuliani? Giuliani is a liberal creation."

[Zurkerx]

~snip~

I'm kinda looking forward to the "I didn't even know Giuliani that well" phase of this play.

To be fair, Trump can't know every single thing: all that corruption gets hard at keeping track of. But if he does dare stab Giuliani in the back, I'm pretty sure he'll do the same thing. After all, both men are in deep shit now.

Also, and no surprise here, The Trump Administration sought to block Yovanovitch testimony. So Democrats issued her a subpoena and she complied. At least she had the courage to defy them though the EU Ambassador set to testify Thursday in impeachment inquiry, also apparently defying the administration. Yet, it should be noted that the State Department hasn't gave him "directions" on whether he should appear or not under a subpoena.

[Thermodolia]

Oh holy crap what an amazing shit show that would be if he left the party and refused to step down. Like...how would they even replace him on the ballot? This doesn't seem likely but possible. I could even see him beating whatever sock puppet they get to stand against him, but maybe still leading to it causing a 1984 style landslide for the Democratic candidate.

I mean none of this is super likely. But not impossible.

It wouldn't be surprising though if he were to leave the Republican Party during his term and stayed, I don't think Republicans would be as fearful to remove him. Of course, Trump would automatically get 30-35% of the vote given his base but he and the Republican would split the vote and boom, a Democrat wins like it's 1912. It would also damage the Republican Party for years too though they would recover, under a new ideology of course.

Well the good thing is that we’d finally get a viable third party and maybe eventually voting reform

[Telconi]

It wouldn't be surprising though if he were to leave the Republican Party during his term and stayed, I don't think Republicans would be as fearful to remove him. Of course, Trump would automatically get 30-35% of the vote given his base but he and the Republican would split the vote and boom, a Democrat wins like it's 1912. It would also damage the Republican Party for years too though they would recover, under a new ideology of course.

Well the good thing is that we’d finally get a viable third party and maybe eventually voting reform

Any third party would implode as quickly as the others have. In the end, our system promotes people gravitating to the nearer of two parties.

[Cannot think of a name]

It begins.

As the career ambassador ousted by President Donald Trump was describing to lawmakers Friday the shadow diplomacy carried out by Rudy Giuliani, the President was across town beginning to doubt his attorney's continued ability to defend him.

The skepticism, which is shared by many of Trump's allies, comes after two of Giuliani's clients were arrested boarding an international flight and charged for violating campaign finance laws.

As the drama unfolded on television -- complete with scowling mug shots paired with photos of the two men posing alongside the President -- Trump began expressing concerns about Giuliani's involvement with the individuals, according to people familiar with the matter.

The White House was informed of the arrest on Wednesday night, according to a law enforcement official. The development lends a further sense of uncertainty to a White House legal strategy which appears, after only three days, to be unsuccessful in preventing administration officials from cooperating with Congress in its impeachment probe.

...
Asked by CNN Thursday if he feared his personal attorney could be indicted potentially, Trump said: "I hope not."
He then put distance between himself and the actions undertaken by his lawyer.
"You know, he's got a lot of clients. So, I just don't know. I haven't spoken to Rudy about it, I don't know," Trump said.
Trump has shown little apprehension in the past at unceremoniously cutting ties with onetime allies when they find themselves in legal hot water. That includes his attempts to distance himself from another personal attorney, Michael Cohen, when it became clear Cohen was in legal trouble for arranging payments during the 2016 election to silence women who claimed affairs with Trump.

[Stamp Out Trump]

I would love that. It would also likely mean a catastrophe for republicans downballot


Pence does terribly in head to head matchups as well.

Guess we had best stick by Donald then.

You'll have to lick the stamp if you stick with him. Yuck!

I think SCOTUS won't take up any appeal on the Trump Tax Return issue. They only take around 5% of the cases tossed their way. Hey, why tip your hand on the matter of the Donald yet. Meanwhile, if what Cohen said about Donnie's tax returns are true, Trump might skip out (resign) in the face of those things alone. Besides Cohen's word, I do recall Mitt Romney saying "there was a bomb inside Trump's tax returns" back in the spring of 2016. I'd bet he knows the inside dope.

Makes me think of Al Capone. He got away with most everything but he continually basked in the limelight then was taken down by the IRS. On the other hand, Capone didn't get any pardon from his successor.

[Ifreann]

It begins.

As the career ambassador ousted by President Donald Trump was describing to lawmakers Friday the shadow diplomacy carried out by Rudy Giuliani, the President was across town beginning to doubt his attorney's continued ability to defend him.

The skepticism, which is shared by many of Trump's allies, comes after two of Giuliani's clients were arrested boarding an international flight and charged for violating campaign finance laws.

As the drama unfolded on television -- complete with scowling mug shots paired with photos of the two men posing alongside the President -- Trump began expressing concerns about Giuliani's involvement with the individuals, according to people familiar with the matter.

The White House was informed of the arrest on Wednesday night, according to a law enforcement official. The development lends a further sense of uncertainty to a White House legal strategy which appears, after only three days, to be unsuccessful in preventing administration officials from cooperating with Congress in its impeachment probe.

...
Asked by CNN Thursday if he feared his personal attorney could be indicted potentially, Trump said: "I hope not."
He then put distance between himself and the actions undertaken by his lawyer.
"You know, he's got a lot of clients. So, I just don't know. I haven't spoken to Rudy about it, I don't know," Trump said.
Trump has shown little apprehension in the past at unceremoniously cutting ties with onetime allies when they find themselves in legal hot water. That includes his attempts to distance himself from another personal attorney, Michael Cohen, when it became clear Cohen was in legal trouble for arranging payments during the 2016 election to silence women who claimed affairs with Trump.

"I've never even had an attorney"

[Telconi]

It begins.

"I've never even had an attorney"

Rudolph who?

[Stamp Out Trump]

Does anyone think Trump will actually get convicted by the Senate?

I think he might go like Nixon. I always have too. Weirdly, Nixon sent him this crazy letter in 1987 saying he'd make a great president. I'd call out that letter major foreshadowing for now. Trump is the guy that eventually gives Nixon some company in the History book. Bad company.

[Chan Island]

Does anyone think Trump will actually get convicted by the Senate?

I think he might go like Nixon. I always have too. Weirdly, Nixon sent him this crazy letter in 1987 saying he'd make a great president. I'd call out that letter major foreshadowing for now. Trump is the guy that eventually gives Nixon some company in the History book. Bad company.

I straight up didn't believe you when you said that but hot damn, that is one hell of a weird foreshadow.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ice-report

[Farnhamia]

It begins.

"I've never even had an attorney"

Not since Roy Cohn, anyway.

[Zurkerx]

It begins.

As the career ambassador ousted by President Donald Trump was describing to lawmakers Friday the shadow diplomacy carried out by Rudy Giuliani, the President was across town beginning to doubt his attorney's continued ability to defend him.

The skepticism, which is shared by many of Trump's allies, comes after two of Giuliani's clients were arrested boarding an international flight and charged for violating campaign finance laws.

As the drama unfolded on television -- complete with scowling mug shots paired with photos of the two men posing alongside the President -- Trump began expressing concerns about Giuliani's involvement with the individuals, according to people familiar with the matter.

The White House was informed of the arrest on Wednesday night, according to a law enforcement official. The development lends a further sense of uncertainty to a White House legal strategy which appears, after only three days, to be unsuccessful in preventing administration officials from cooperating with Congress in its impeachment probe.

...
Asked by CNN Thursday if he feared his personal attorney could be indicted potentially, Trump said: "I hope not."
He then put distance between himself and the actions undertaken by his lawyer.
"You know, he's got a lot of clients. So, I just don't know. I haven't spoken to Rudy about it, I don't know," Trump said.
Trump has shown little apprehension in the past at unceremoniously cutting ties with onetime allies when they find themselves in legal hot water. That includes his attempts to distance himself from another personal attorney, Michael Cohen, when it became clear Cohen was in legal trouble for arranging payments during the 2016 election to silence women who claimed affairs with Trump.

Hmm, given what has been transpiring, it's no surprise though I suspect Giuliani won't cooperate so easily still, especially if Trump pardons him- unless of course Giuliani is charged with State crimes, which in that case, he won't get a pardon.

Also, Shepard Smith, a frequent target of Trump and Trump Critic, is leaving Fox. Great, there goes one of the last sane voices on that network though I can't blame him: the opinion hosts are taking over inch by inch.