MAGAThread XVI: Raising the Barr

[The Emerald Legion]

So what you're saying is that everyone who backed the Russia investigation and Mueller probe should be barred from ever sitting in office again?

Because seriously, it's one or the other. Either the Mueller probe, a massive multimillion dollar waste of the taxpayers money in order to dig up dirt on Trump is ok, in which case so is this.

OR it's not, in which case you might as well just nuke the entire democratic party from orbit. Not to mention the bullshit with regards to new york state trying to fuck him over for daring to win an election.

The Mueller Probe was about digging up campaign dirt on Trump now? I don't recall anyone in Donny's tiny inner circle mentioning how they would prosecute Biden and Son if actual dirt was found on them.

The fuck else was the purpose of the Mueller probe? Why else spend multiple years and millions of dollars investigating Trump and his associates, only to arrest a few on unrelated money laundering schemes? The goal was and is to dig up and air dirt and force him to waste time and money on legal battles. All on the taxpayer dime, meaning it doesn't cost them a red-cent from their war chests.

[Torrocca]

I'm cutting out the rest because this single sentence of yours basically sums up your argument. How the hell are you actually misinterpreting what I'm saying this hard? My whole fucking point is that Erdogan did not want to escalate a situation with the US; more US troops being present would mean the Turkish military would be deterred from doing even the small-scale bullshit it was doing. That's the whole fucking point I'm making, that they wouldn't fight the fucking US troops in the first place.

1. Add more troops to Kurdistan. You think Turkey is not only stupid, but blind? They would clearly see that move and be pushed further to Russia, which would break the whole point of us trying to stop them since we sure as hell aren't going to fight Russia, or an American AND Russian-equipped military.

So, in your scenario, Turkey turns to Russia. Then what? It invades a US-protected Rojava, drawing the US into a war that Russia almost certainly won't involve itself in thanks to the threat of nuclear retaliation?

2. My point is they didn't and don't have to, unless America significantly increased U.S. troop deployment, which would lead to number 1, Turkey only would have to drive around U.S. troops, and we wouldn't fight a western-equipped army with such low numbers.

There wouldn't be much to drive around if there was an active US presence in every settlement. I don't think the Turkish military would fancy the idea of fighting the desert itself.

3. This is what is called as "calling a bluff", Turkey knows the U.S. wouldn't want to deploy more troops, and it knows it doesn't want a conflict. Yes, if we have deployed more troops (which you never stated before), then maybe our bluff would have been credible. But that never happened and I have heard nothing from the JCS that called for such things, so I don't know where in the fuck you are getting these ideas.

God I'm tired of this shit.

Except there was no bluff to call because, rather than do anything meaningful in the way of trying to prevent a full-fledged military invasion of Northern Syria and keep the situation stabilized, Trump decided to greenlight Erdogan's plan of invasion. Which is why Trump bears some responsibility for whatever atrocities are to come.

[Kowani]

Calling on foreign countries to investigate your opponents isn’t impeccable? It’s against the law to solicit such help. Let me put this in a way maybe you can understand. Let’s pretend I’m Governor of New York and your my likely republican opponent in the next election. It would be perfectly acceptable for me to publicly call for the district attorney of your home county or state attorney general to investigate you?

So what you're saying is that everyone who backed the Russia investigation and Mueller probe should be barred from ever sitting in office again?

Because seriously, it's one or the other. Either the Mueller probe, a massive multimillion dollar waste of the taxpayers money in order to dig up dirt on Trump is ok, in which case so is this.

OR it's not, in which case you might as well just nuke the entire democratic party from orbit. Not to mention the bullshit with regards to new york state trying to fuck him over for daring to win an election.

Your daily reminder that the Mueller investigation was a net financial gain.

[Gormwood]

Federal deficit estimated at $984B, highest in seven years

Right, I forgot. High deficit is only an outrage when a Democrat is in the White House.

[San Lumen]

Calling on foreign countries to investigate your opponents isn’t impeccable? It’s against the law to solicit such help. Let me put this in a way maybe you can understand. Let’s pretend I’m Governor of New York and your my likely republican opponent in the next election. It would be perfectly acceptable for me to publicly call for the district attorney of your home county or state attorney general to investigate you?

So what you're saying is that everyone who backed the Russia investigation and Mueller probe should be barred from ever sitting in office again?

Because seriously, it's one or the other. Either the Mueller probe, a massive multimillion dollar waste of the taxpayers money in order to dig up dirt on Trump is ok, in which case so is this.

OR it's not, in which case you might as well just nuke the entire democratic party from orbit. Not to mention the bullshit with regards to new york state trying to fuck him over for daring to win an election.

You are aware republicans controlled Congress when Mueller was appointed right?
let’s just let the president do whatever they want and not hold them accountable. Who cares if Trump might have deep ties to Russia or be violating the emoluments clause?

It is illegal to solicit foreign countries for dirt on your opponents. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Aclion]

By that reasoning isn't Obama responsible for ISIS?

I don't know why you'd possibly think I'd say no when pulling out of Iraq directly led to ISIS rising to power.

Shockingly enough, I'm not gonna play bat for a Neolib who caused bad shit to happen.

Well that is a refreshing bit of integrity.

[Loben The 2nd]

1. Add more troops to Kurdistan. You think Turkey is not only stupid, but blind? They would clearly see that move and be pushed further to Russia, which would break the whole point of us trying to stop them since we sure as hell aren't going to fight Russia, or an American AND Russian-equipped military.

So, in your scenario, Turkey turns to Russia. Then what? It invades a US-protected Rojava, drawing the US into a war that Russia almost certainly won't involve itself in thanks to the threat of nuclear retaliation?

2. My point is they didn't and don't have to, unless America significantly increased U.S. troop deployment, which would lead to number 1, Turkey only would have to drive around U.S. troops, and we wouldn't fight a western-equipped army with such low numbers.

There wouldn't be much to drive around if there was an active US presence in every settlement. I don't think the Turkish military would fancy the idea of fighting the desert itself.

3. This is what is called as "calling a bluff", Turkey knows the U.S. wouldn't want to deploy more troops, and it knows it doesn't want a conflict. Yes, if we have deployed more troops (which you never stated before), then maybe our bluff would have been credible. But that never happened and I have heard nothing from the JCS that called for such things, so I don't know where in the fuck you are getting these ideas.

God I'm tired of this shit.

Except there was no bluff to call because, rather than do anything meaningful in the way of trying to prevent a full-fledged military invasion of Northern Syria and keep the situation stabilized, Trump decided to greenlight Erdogan's plan of invasion. Which is why Trump bears some responsibility for whatever atrocities are to come.

Rojava?

is that what this is about?

[Militant Costco]

1. Add more troops to Kurdistan. You think Turkey is not only stupid, but blind? They would clearly see that move and be pushed further to Russia, which would break the whole point of us trying to stop them since we sure as hell aren't going to fight Russia, or an American AND Russian-equipped military.

So, in your scenario, Turkey turns to Russia. Then what? It invades a US-protected Rojava, drawing the US into a war that Russia almost certainly won't involve itself in thanks to the threat of nuclear retaliation?

2. My point is they didn't and don't have to, unless America significantly increased U.S. troop deployment, which would lead to number 1, Turkey only would have to drive around U.S. troops, and we wouldn't fight a western-equipped army with such low numbers.

There wouldn't be much to drive around if there was an active US presence in every settlement. I don't think the Turkish military would fancy the idea of fighting the desert itself.

3. This is what is called as "calling a bluff", Turkey knows the U.S. wouldn't want to deploy more troops, and it knows it doesn't want a conflict. Yes, if we have deployed more troops (which you never stated before), then maybe our bluff would have been credible. But that never happened and I have heard nothing from the JCS that called for such things, so I don't know where in the fuck you are getting these ideas.

God I'm tired of this shit.

Except there was no bluff to call because, rather than do anything meaningful in the way of trying to prevent a full-fledged military invasion of Northern Syria and keep the situation stabilized, Trump decided to greenlight Erdogan's plan of invasion. Which is why Trump bears some responsibility for whatever atrocities are to come.

1. No, because Kurdistan is not an official American ally, simply because it's not an official nation. The U.S. would never come to the aid of that if it occurred, but this is irrelevant for America. What is relevant for America is that we just lost one of our most powerful allies that is single-handily containing the entire Russian Baltic-fleet, preventing them from gaining domination in the Mediterranean. If you think the U.S. is going to give that up just to save a couple of minorities with questionable loyalty in a war we aren't winning, you are frankly out of your mind.

2. I don't think any American fancies the idea of sending more troops, to another country, to die for another group of people they couldn't even locate on a map. Yes, it's very unreasonable to think that Turkey would fight a full land war against us, you're right about that. But it's even more unbelievable to believe we would cover every settlement in Kurdistan to defend them against Turkey, and turn our attention away from Assad and his Russian-backed armies.

3. This has been going on long before Trump or even Obama. This is why not only did I say it was stupid to believe that Turkey would attack, but stupid to believe we would give a shit or two. The military expected us to just play in the middle, it did not expect us to pull out, but it definitely did not expect us to fight and try and save Kurdistan.

[Galloism]

The Mueller Probe was about digging up campaign dirt on Trump now? I don't recall anyone in Donny's tiny inner circle mentioning how they would prosecute Biden and Son if actual dirt was found on them.

The fuck else was the purpose of the Mueller probe? Why else spend multiple years and millions of dollars investigating Trump and his associates, only to arrest a few on unrelated money laundering schemes? The goal was and is to dig up and air dirt and force him to waste time and money on legal battles. All on the taxpayer dime, meaning it doesn't cost them a red-cent from their war chests.

If memory serves we made money for the taxpayer on the Mueller probe.

[Torrocca]

So, in your scenario, Turkey turns to Russia. Then what? It invades a US-protected Rojava, drawing the US into a war that Russia almost certainly won't involve itself in thanks to the threat of nuclear retaliation?



There wouldn't be much to drive around if there was an active US presence in every settlement. I don't think the Turkish military would fancy the idea of fighting the desert itself.



Except there was no bluff to call because, rather than do anything meaningful in the way of trying to prevent a full-fledged military invasion of Northern Syria and keep the situation stabilized, Trump decided to greenlight Erdogan's plan of invasion. Which is why Trump bears some responsibility for whatever atrocities are to come.

1. No, because Kurdistan is not an official American ally, simply because it's not an official nation. The U.S. would never come to the aid of that if it occurred, but this is irrelevant for America. What is relevant for America is that we just lost one of our most powerful allies that is single-handily containing the entire Russian Baltic-fleet, preventing them from gaining domination in the Mediterranean. If you think the U.S. is going to give that up just to save a couple of minorities with questionable loyalty in a war we aren't winning, you are frankly out of your mind.

So, after hypothetically committing an action in support of Rojava that drives Turkey to side with Russia, this hypothetical USA would then suddenly stop supporting Rojava if Turkey then attacked?

The lack of logical sense in this argument is astounding.

2. I don't think any American fancies the idea of sending more troops, to another country, to die for another group of people they couldn't even locate on a map. Yes, it's very unreasonable to think that Turkey would fight a full land war against us, you're right about that. But it's even more unbelievable to believe we would cover every settlement in Kurdistan to defend them against Turkey, and turn our attention away from Assad and his Russian-backed armies.

Assad and his Russian-backed armies would have to directly contend with a bolstered US military presence in Northern Syria in this hypothetical.

3. This has been going on long before Trump or even Obama. This is why not only did I say it was stupid to believe that Turkey would attack, but stupid to believe we would give a shit or two. The military expected us to just play in the middle, it did not expect us to pull out, but it definitely did not expect us to fight and try and save Kurdistan.

The Turkish military didn't expect US troops to pull out, but now that Trump ordered that to happen and gave Erdogan the greenlight to commit a full-fledged invasion, they're giddier than a child on Christmas day.

[Kowani]

The fuck else was the purpose of the Mueller probe? Why else spend multiple years and millions of dollars investigating Trump and his associates, only to arrest a few on unrelated money laundering schemes? The goal was and is to dig up and air dirt and force him to waste time and money on legal battles. All on the taxpayer dime, meaning it doesn't cost them a red-cent from their war chests.

If memory serves we made money for the taxpayer on the Mueller probe.

We did.

[Galloism]

1. No, because Kurdistan is not an official American ally, simply because it's not an official nation. The U.S. would never come to the aid of that if it occurred, but this is irrelevant for America. What is relevant for America is that we just lost one of our most powerful allies that is single-handily containing the entire Russian Baltic-fleet, preventing them from gaining domination in the Mediterranean. If you think the U.S. is going to give that up just to save a couple of minorities with questionable loyalty in a war we aren't winning, you are frankly out of your mind.

So, after hypothetically committing an action in support of Rojava that drives Turkey to side with Russia, this hypothetical USA would then suddenly stop supporting Rojava if Turkey then attacked?

The lack of logical sense in this argument is astounding.

2. I don't think any American fancies the idea of sending more troops, to another country, to die for another group of people they couldn't even locate on a map. Yes, it's very unreasonable to think that Turkey would fight a full land war against us, you're right about that. But it's even more unbelievable to believe we would cover every settlement in Kurdistan to defend them against Turkey, and turn our attention away from Assad and his Russian-backed armies.

Assad and his Russian-backed armies would have to directly contend with a bolstered US military presence in Northern Syria in this hypothetical.

3. This has been going on long before Trump or even Obama. This is why not only did I say it was stupid to believe that Turkey would attack, but stupid to believe we would give a shit or two. The military expected us to just play in the middle, it did not expect us to pull out, but it definitely did not expect us to fight and try and save Kurdistan.

The Turkish military didn't expect US troops to pull out, but now that Trump ordered that to happen and gave Erdogan the greenlight to commit a full-fledged invasion, they're giddier than a child on Christmas day.

The Turkish Government's official statement on the terror infestation in Northern Syria.

[Loben The 2nd]

So, after hypothetically committing an action in support of Rojava that drives Turkey to side with Russia, this hypothetical USA would then suddenly stop supporting Rojava if Turkey then attacked?

The lack of logical sense in this argument is astounding.



Assad and his Russian-backed armies would have to directly contend with a bolstered US military presence in Northern Syria in this hypothetical.



The Turkish military didn't expect US troops to pull out, but now that Trump ordered that to happen and gave Erdogan the greenlight to commit a full-fledged invasion, they're giddier than a child on Christmas day.

The Turkish Government's official statement on the terror infestation in Northern Syria.

correct.

[Napkizemlja]

I mean this is really bad and should be conde- *sees that they are socialists*

Well hot diggity smack with some blackjack, have at 'em boys. Heya, heya!

[Napkizemlja]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

[Nakena]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

That happens if the horizon ends at the next election, the next poll, the next popularity contest.

[Gormwood]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

No wonder Donny is trying to shut down immigration. He knows his pull out will result in Kurdish refugees.

[Napkizemlja]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

No wonder Donny is trying to shut down immigration. He knows his pull out will result in Kurdish refugees.

I'm actually getting that the people raging about the US abandoning the Kurds in Syria are the same people who wanted America to high tail it out of Vietnam and Iraq. There is nothing America could do. The best option would probably have been to actually side with Assad since he's seemed more willing to give the Kurds some amount of autonomy (for now) but if America did that, they'd still be shit on. What is America supposed to do, keep American soldiers in northern Syria until the Levant is uninhabitable?

[San Lumen]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

It will be another massacre and a resurgence of ISIS whom the Kurds helped us defeat. Anyone defending this decision doesn’t get to say how could we have prevented this when they turn on the news and see a story about a massacre in Kurdistan or a terrorist attacked. This stupid decision is why .
It’s times like this I wish the military would say no we aren’t doing that

[Napkizemlja]

Remember when America abandoned the South Vietnamese and Iraqis? Good times.

It will be another massacre and a resurgence of ISIS whom the Kurds helped us defeat. Anyone defending this decision doesn’t get to say how could we have prevented this when they turn on the news and see a story about a massacre in Kurdistan or a terrorist attacked. This stupid decision is why .
It’s times like this I wish the military would say no we aren’t doing that

ISIS isn't coming back like it did before. They became what they became because of particular factors that existed at the time that no longer exist. Assad's regime is in a pretty good spot to prevent that from reoccurring.

[San Lumen]

It will be another massacre and a resurgence of ISIS whom the Kurds helped us defeat. Anyone defending this decision doesn’t get to say how could we have prevented this when they turn on the news and see a story about a massacre in Kurdistan or a terrorist attacked. This stupid decision is why .
It’s times like this I wish the military would say no we aren’t doing that

ISIS isn't coming back like it did before. They became what they became because of particular factors that existed at the time that no longer exist. Assad's regime is in a pretty good spot to prevent that from reoccurring.

Yeah but it shouldn’t come back at all. This decision also tells our allies not to rely on us .

[Nakena]

No wonder Donny is trying to shut down immigration. He knows his pull out will result in Kurdish refugees.

I'm actually getting that the people raging about the US abandoning the Kurds in Syria are the same people who wanted America to high tail it out of Vietnam and Iraq. There is nothing America could do. The best option would probably have been to actually side with Assad since he's seemed more willing to give the Kurds some amount of autonomy (for now) but if America did that, they'd still be shit on. What is America supposed to do, keep American soldiers in northern Syria until the Levant is uninhabitable?

Thats the whole wretchedness and hypocrisy of this - perhaos some liberal with adjectives? - mentality and mindset exposed. It wants something, but isn't willing to do what it takes to get that done. It's all about the way, not the objective. And once things go running it withdraws from it, gets indecisive and at worst horrified and unconfortable about itself.

And the result of this all is that things get even worse.

[Loben The 2nd]

ISIS isn't coming back like it did before. They became what they became because of particular factors that existed at the time that no longer exist. Assad's regime is in a pretty good spot to prevent that from reoccurring.

Yeah but it shouldn’t come back at all. This decision also tells our allies not to rely on us .

allies that are have been enforcing kurdification in occupied areas?

[Napkizemlja]

ISIS isn't coming back like it did before. They became what they became because of particular factors that existed at the time that no longer exist. Assad's regime is in a pretty good spot to prevent that from reoccurring.

Yeah but it shouldn’t come back at all. This decision also tells our allies not to rely on us .

And in return would have betrayed another ally, one that actually has a formal and legal alliance with the United States.

[Loben The 2nd]

Yeah but it shouldn’t come back at all. This decision also tells our allies not to rely on us .

And in return would have betrayed another ally, one that actually has a formal and legal alliance with the United States.

ergo we should probably politely tell rojava to eat shit.