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by Aureumterra » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:53 pm
by Loben The 2nd » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:54 pm
Torrocca wrote:Took less than a day for the Turkish military to start wantonly attacking the SDF after Trump announced the withdrawal of US forces in Syria.
I sure am excited for the likely impending genocide.
by Loben The 2nd » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:54 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Torrocca wrote:Took less than a day for the Turkish military to start wantonly attacking the SDF after Trump announced the withdrawal of US forces in Syria.
I sure am excited for the likely impending genocide.
And it's Trump's fault.
Anyone who supports this is ok with genocide.
by Militant Costco » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:59 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Torrocca wrote:Took less than a day for the Turkish military to start wantonly attacking the SDF after Trump announced the withdrawal of US forces in Syria.
I sure am excited for the likely impending genocide.
And it's Trump's fault.
Anyone who supports this is ok with genocide.
by Miami Shores » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:01 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Torrocca wrote:Took less than a day for the Turkish military to start wantonly attacking the SDF after Trump announced the withdrawal of US forces in Syria.
I sure am excited for the likely impending genocide.
And it's Trump's fault.
Anyone who supports this is ok with genocide.
by San Lumen » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:04 pm
Miami Shores wrote:Eternal Lotharia wrote:And it's Trump's fault.
Anyone who supports this is ok with genocide.
I am on record on this thread as agreeing against the policy with Graham and Nikki Haley, and I support an independent Kurdistan state, but if the policy of withdrawal results in impending genocide those who support it are not guilty of genocide, are not ok with genocide, they just agree with the policy of withdrawal and bringing the troops home, a campaign promise of Donnie Trump. I did not vote for Donnie Trump based on only one issue, I voted and support Donnie Trump on many issues.
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:07 pm
San Lumen wrote:Miami Shores wrote:I am on record on this thread as agreeing against the policy with Graham and Nikki Haley, and I support an independent Kurdistan state, but if the policy of withdrawal results in impending genocide those who support it are not guilty of genocide, are not ok with genocide, they just agree with the policy of withdrawal and bringing the troops home, a campaign promise of Donnie Trump. I did not vote for Donnie Trump based on only one issue, I voted and support Donnie Trump on many issues.
A genocide is not worth a campaign promise
by Militant Costco » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:07 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Militant Costco wrote:Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
Yes but Trump made it possible.
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Eternal Lotharia wrote:Militant Costco wrote:Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
Yes but Trump made it possible.
by Torrocca » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:08 pm
Militant Costco wrote:Eternal Lotharia wrote:And it's Trump's fault.
Anyone who supports this is ok with genocide.
Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:09 pm
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:09 pm
Torrocca wrote:Militant Costco wrote:Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
It's a likely genocide that's been made possible by Trump's actions. He's as much an involved party in whatever impending atrocities occur in Northern Syria as Erdogan is.
by Ngelmish » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:13 pm
by Miami Shores » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:15 pm
Torrocca wrote:Militant Costco wrote:Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
It's a likely genocide that's been made possible by Trump's actions. He's as much an involved party in whatever impending atrocities occur in Northern Syria as Erdogan is.
by Militant Costco » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:15 pm
Torrocca wrote:Militant Costco wrote:Let's not forget that Turkey is the one doing it, not Trump. Ignoring it definitely isn't good, but I don't want to read 20 years later that the Kurdish genocide was Trump's fault entirely and let Turkey off the hook from another genocide.
It's a likely genocide that's been made possible by Trump's actions. He's as much an involved party in whatever impending atrocities occur in Northern Syria as Erdogan is.
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:16 pm
Ngelmish wrote:Telconi wrote:
Not stopping a thing does not make you responsible for it. If my neighbor Bob beats up my other neighbor Joe while I'm at work, it's not suddenly my fault Joe gets hurt.
If there was a constraint in place that prevent Bob from beating Joe that you would removed, like, say the key that locked Bob in the basement, then you (like Trump, removing the deterrents in this case) are very much responsible.
Would you like to try not being pedantically obtuse, now?
by Militant Costco » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:16 pm
Ngelmish wrote:Telconi wrote:
Not stopping a thing does not make you responsible for it. If my neighbor Bob beats up my other neighbor Joe while I'm at work, it's not suddenly my fault Joe gets hurt.
If there was a constraint in place that prevent Bob from beating Joe that you would removed, like, say the key that locked Bob in the basement, then you (like Trump, removing the deterrents in this case) are very much responsible.
Would you like to try not being pedantically obtuse, now?
by Torrocca » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:22 pm
Militant Costco wrote:Torrocca wrote:
It's a likely genocide that's been made possible by Trump's actions. He's as much an involved party in whatever impending atrocities occur in Northern Syria as Erdogan is.
First part is correct, second is absolutely not. This just takes away responsibility for what Turkey is doing. They are an independent nation capable of doing what they say, it's not our job to hold their hands when they need help and stop them when they commit wrongdoings. If we blame Trump for this shit, later down the road Turkey is going to start saying it was Trump who allowed the genocide to happen and thus they aren't responsible for it.
by Telconi » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm
Torrocca wrote:Militant Costco wrote:First part is correct, second is absolutely not. This just takes away responsibility for what Turkey is doing. They are an independent nation capable of doing what they say, it's not our job to hold their hands when they need help and stop them when they commit wrongdoings. If we blame Trump for this shit, later down the road Turkey is going to start saying it was Trump who allowed the genocide to happen and thus they aren't responsible for it.
It doesn't take away Turkey's own responsibility for the atrocities to come by any stretch, but we can't ignore the fact of the matter that Trump's also implicitly responsible for them by taking away the very thing that was deterring these atrocities in the first place.
by Miami Shores » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:26 pm
Telconi wrote:Torrocca wrote:
It doesn't take away Turkey's own responsibility for the atrocities to come by any stretch, but we can't ignore the fact of the matter that Trump's also implicitly responsible for them by taking away the very thing that was deterring these atrocities in the first place.
This isn't a fact, this is your belief.
by Militant Costco » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:28 pm
Torrocca wrote:Militant Costco wrote:First part is correct, second is absolutely not. This just takes away responsibility for what Turkey is doing. They are an independent nation capable of doing what they say, it's not our job to hold their hands when they need help and stop them when they commit wrongdoings. If we blame Trump for this shit, later down the road Turkey is going to start saying it was Trump who allowed the genocide to happen and thus they aren't responsible for it.
It doesn't take away Turkey's own responsibility for the atrocities to come by any stretch, but we can't ignore the fact of the matter that Trump's also implicitly responsible for them by taking away the very thing that was deterring these atrocities in the first place.
by Miami Shores » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:32 pm
Militant Costco wrote:Torrocca wrote:
It doesn't take away Turkey's own responsibility for the atrocities to come by any stretch, but we can't ignore the fact of the matter that Trump's also implicitly responsible for them by taking away the very thing that was deterring these atrocities in the first place.
Failure of prevention doesn't equate to being responsible for that crime. Unless Trump actively supported Turkey in the genocide, then he's not responsible for it. Turkey would have called our bluff if we had threatened anything, and had war started or sanctions been applied, Turkey would have started the genocide anyways.
Under your logic, Iran and Russia are responsible for America's crimes in Iraq since Russia could have stopped the U.S. diplomatically and Iran could have intervened physically. Yet we don't hold these nations responsible for good reasons.
by Torrocca » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:34 pm
Militant Costco wrote:Torrocca wrote:
It doesn't take away Turkey's own responsibility for the atrocities to come by any stretch, but we can't ignore the fact of the matter that Trump's also implicitly responsible for them by taking away the very thing that was deterring these atrocities in the first place.
Failure of prevention doesn't equate to being responsible for that crime. Unless Trump actively supported Turkey in the genocide, then he's not responsible for it. Turkey would have called our bluff if we had threatened anything, and had war started or sanctions been applied, Turkey would have started the genocide anyways.
Under your logic, Iran and Russia are responsible for America's crimes in Iraq since Russia could have stopped the U.S. diplomatically and Iran could have intervened physically. Yet we don't hold these nations responsible for good reasons.
by Duhon » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:41 pm
Torrocca wrote:Took less than a day for the Turkish military to start wantonly attacking the SDF after Trump announced the withdrawal of US forces in Syria.
I sure am excited for the likely impending genocide.
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