MAGAThread XVI: Raising the Barr

[Ifreann]

We know that you want to know who the whistleblower so that you can try to undermine their credibility. But someone else might try to assassinate them.

Just as lawyers do in US Courts of law, just as Republicans and Democrats do in congress. The votes will be along party lines in congress.

BUT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT TRY TO ASSASSINATE THEM.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Just as lawyers do in US Courts of law, just as Republicans and Democrats do in congress. The votes will be along party lines in congress.

BUT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT TRY TO ASSASSINATE THEM.

Actually I would guess that at least a thousand Trump rally goers stand ready to follow Donald's implicit hints about a lynching, take it upon themselves to follow what they honestly believe to be a direct order, and conduct a "private investigation" with AR-15's, just like that man waving his rifle about in a pizzeria during pizzagate.

[Gravlen]

Yet another Ukranian speaks out:

Ukraine’s former top law enforcement official says he repeatedly rebuffed President Trump’s personal lawyer’s demands to investigate Joe Biden and his son, insisting he had seen no evidence of wrongdoing that he could pursue despite Trump’s allegations.

In an interview, Yuri Lutsenko said while he was Ukraine prosecutor general he told Rudolph Giuliani that he would be happy to cooperate if the FBI or other U.S. authorities began their own investigation of the former vice president and his son Hunter but insisted they had not broken any Ukrainian laws to his knowledge.

The White House released notes of a call between President Trump and Ukraine’s leader. Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the House will open an impeachment inquiry.

Lutsenko, who was fired as prosecutor general last month, said he had urged Giuliani to launch a U.S. inquiry and go to court if he had any evidence but not to use Ukraine to conduct a political vendetta that could affect the U.S. election.

“I said, ‘Let’s put this through prosecutors, not through presidents,’ ” Lutsenko told The Times.

“I told him I could not start an investigation just for the interests of an American official,” he said.

The revelations are at the heart of the House impeachment probe into whether Trump improperly delayed congressionally mandated military aid to Ukraine while urging leaders there to help find dirt on his political opponents to boost his 2020 reelection bid.

Lutsenko said he met Giuliani twice in person and had numerous conversations with him on the phone. He described the former New York mayor as obsessed with possible misconduct by Biden or his son Hunter.

Both Bidens have denied any wrongdoing, and no evidence has emerged to suggest they broke U.S. laws.

Lutsenko said he told Giuliani that Hunter Biden’s position on the board of Ukraine’s largest natural gas company, Burisma Holdings, while his father was involved in steering Obama administration policy toward Ukraine “could be signs of a conflict of interest” but was not illegal.

Lutsenko’s account is controversial since he is believed to have been one of the original promoters behind the unsubstantiated allegations against Biden. He also complained about the former U.S. ambassador to Kyiv, Marie Yovanovitch, who was recalled in May weeks before her tenure was up

Lutsenko, 54, met with The Times at a cafe in downtown Kyiv. He spoke quickly and animatedly in Russian and English, at times contradicting statements he had previously made publicly.

He said he met unofficially with Giuliani in New York and in Warsaw last year. Other accounts put the New York meeting earlier this year, but he insisted it was January of last year. The Warsaw meeting was in March, he said.

“I went to his office and was there for several hours over three days,” Lutsenko said. “He was certainly prepared.”

Giuliani quickly raised the issue of the Ukrainian gas company that had hired Hunter Biden. Burisma is run by a Ukrainian oligarch who had been under investigation for tax evasion and lives abroad. But once back taxes were paid, Lutsenko said, the case was shelved.

“He was wondering why the case was closed,” he said. “I had to tell him how law enforcement functions here.”

He said his hands were tied and he could not reopen the case just because Trump wanted it.

https://t.co/u2Btflidi2

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

Just as lawyers do in US Courts of law, just as Republicans and Democrats do in congress. The votes will be along party lines in congress.

BUT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT TRY TO ASSASSINATE THEM.

I know that and that is wrong, and I don't wish that on the whistleblower. But so is trying Donnie and finding him guilty as charged by the Democrats, which will happen as I say, just wait and see.

[Salandriagado]

Nope: ad hominem is not a functional legal defence.

The rape case scenario is a very different case, are we going to deny that Republicans will vote for Trump as not guilty and Democrats will vote for Trump as guilty especially during an election season. Are we goin to deny that Adam Schiff has made up his mind that Donnie is guilty from day one. I know here I go again but that is so evident.

I note that precisely zero words in your post relate in any way to any of the words in my post.

[Fartsniffage]

BUT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT TRY TO ASSASSINATE THEM.

I know that and that is wrong, and I don't wish that on the whistleblower. But so is trying Donnie and finding him guilty as charged by the Democrats, which will happen as I say, just wait and see.

THE HOUSE DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. THE SENATE DOES.

You're one of the best arguments against democracy. A person with a strong partisan opinion and no understanding how their government actually works...

[Necroghastia]

BUT SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT TRY TO ASSASSINATE THEM.

I know that and that is wrong, and I don't wish that on the whistleblower. But so is trying Donnie and finding him guilty as charged by the Democrats, which will happen as I say, just wait and see.

>finding a person guilty of a crime we have evidence of is as wrong as an assassination to suppress/retaliate against said evidence

Also please for your own sake read up on how impeachment investigations and trials actually work.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

I know here I go again but it fits the post, and if the whistleblower has obvious biases against Donnie, that is going to be a line of defense by the Republicans in the committee like all lawyers do in a US Court of Law, at end the votes for impeachment or not are going to come down to politics on both the right and the left, no matter what the whistleblower says and the objective evidence, especially in an election season, I know their I go again lol.

If my fellow nations can call President Trump Donnie and not get in trouble with the Moderators as it appears so, than I can call President Trump Donnie too, so from now on is Donnie, I like the sound of the name better than Donald.

A rape victim has a clear bias against their rapist. Do we devalue their evidence because they don't like the person they're testifying against or do we listen to what they say in an objective manner and see if the rest of the evidence supports it?

Sorry I seem to have referenced the wrong person: A rape victim has a clear bias against their rapist. A rape victim has a very personal case, that s a very different case scenario.

[Fartsniffage]

A rape victim has a clear bias against their rapist. Do we devalue their evidence because they don't like the person they're testifying against or do we listen to what they say in an objective manner and see if the rest of the evidence supports it?

Sorry I seem to have referenced the wrong person: A rape victim has a clear bias against their rapist. A rape victim has a very personal case, that s a very different case scenario.

You don't take it personally if your elected representative turns out to be a criminal? They asked you for your vote and then shit on you. I take that kind of thing personally.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

I know that and that is wrong, and I don't wish that on the whistleblower. But so is trying Donnie and finding him guilty as charged by the Democrats, which will happen as I say, just wait and see.

THE HOUSE DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. THE SENATE DOES.

You're one of the best arguments against democracy. A person with a strong partisan opinion and no understanding how their government actually works...

I know the house impeaches and the senate convicts, and for the millionth time the votes will come down to politics on the Republican and Democrats side.

My Prediction: The Democrats will have the majority of the votes they need to impeach along party lines and the Republicans will have the majority of the votes to not convict along party lines, and we are back to first base. I rest my case again lol.

[Farnhamia]

THE HOUSE DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. THE SENATE DOES.

You're one of the best arguments against democracy. A person with a strong partisan opinion and no understanding how their government actually works...

I know the house impeaches and the senate convicts, and for the millionth time the votes will come down to politics on the Republican and Democrats side.

My Prediction: The Democrats will have the majority of the votes they need to impeach along party lines and the Republicans will have the majority of the votes to not convict along party lines, and we are back to first base. I rest my case again lol.

Except - assuming the Democrats have a good case and I think they will - that all the Republicans in the Senate will have shown the American people that they value party above Justice for America.

[The Black Forrest]

How is protecting his identity prevent due process? I mean all they did was submit a complaint of wrongdoing, they did not witness or partake in any of the events they are describing, but instead heard about them second hand. The Inspector General then reviewed the complain, and said that the complaint was both credible and urgent, meaning it needed to be handed over to Congress for investigation. Congress is now investigating, by gathering the evidence and talking to the people involved.

It should also be noted that the very process of keeping a whistle blower anonymous is done to protect them from retaliation, as whistle blowers have been targeted routinely in the past for their actions. One of the most effective ways to protect someone is to not let people know who they are or where they are.

Because it prevents cross examination.

Cross examination? Don't you mean the republican barrage of character attacks?

The whistleblower is kept anonymous because of such actions. It's not like this "president" can't handle anything that is said against him.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

I know the house impeaches and the senate convicts, and for the millionth time the votes will come down to politics on the Republican and Democrats side.

My Prediction: The Democrats will have the majority of the votes they need to impeach along party lines and the Republicans will have the majority of the votes to not convict along party lines, and we are back to first base. I rest my case again lol.

Except - assuming the Democrats have a good case and I think they will - that all the Republicans in the Senate will have shown the American people that they value party above Justice for America.

If President Trump is removed from office, I hope President Pence chooses Ted Cruz as Vice President, if they win the First Jewish Cuban American Hispanic Latino Vice President, while Marco Rubio would help win Florida, I think Ted Cruz is the stronger VP candidate of the two.

[Fartsniffage]

THE HOUSE DOESN'T MAKE A DECISION ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. THE SENATE DOES.

You're one of the best arguments against democracy. A person with a strong partisan opinion and no understanding how their government actually works...

I know the house impeaches and the senate convicts, and for the millionth time the votes will come down to politics on the Republican and Democrats side.

My Prediction: The Democrats will have the majority of the votes they need to impeach along party lines and the Republicans will have the majority of the votes to not convict along party lines, and we are back to first base. I rest my case again lol.

Then why do you keep talking about the House finding Trump guilty?

Nah. The trial will be played out in the media and if the Senate just votes along party lines then the Republicans will end up looking bad. "Lol"

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Except - assuming the Democrats have a good case and I think they will - that all the Republicans in the Senate will have shown the American people that they value party above Justice for America.

If President Trump is removed from office, I hope President Pence chooses Ted Cruz as Vice President, if they win the First Jewish Cuban American Hispanic Latino Vice President, while Marco Rubio would help win Florida, I think Ted Cruz is the stronger VP candidate of the two.

>President Pence
>Not installing a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Theocracy.
I guess you can look forward to having all male-female contact of any kind banned via Executive Order?

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

I know the house impeaches and the senate convicts, and for the millionth time the votes will come down to politics on the Republican and Democrats side.

My Prediction: The Democrats will have the majority of the votes they need to impeach along party lines and the Republicans will have the majority of the votes to not convict along party lines, and we are back to first base. I rest my case again lol.

Then why do you keep talking about the House finding Trump guilty?

Nah. The trial will be played out in the media and if the Senate just votes along party lines then the Republicans will end up looking bad. "Lol"

So will the Democrats lol, it depends on perceptions we don't know yet.

[Genivaria]

It's very telling that the Trump defenders have to resort to endangering the witness because they know that the sentence will likely be guilty.

[Fartsniffage]

Then why do you keep talking about the House finding Trump guilty?

Nah. The trial will be played out in the media and if the Senate just votes along party lines then the Republicans will end up looking bad. "Lol"

So will the Democrats lol, it depends on perceptions we don't know yet.

Yes we do. The transcript released by Trump make him look guilty as hell. And that was what he chose to release. Any other evidence is just gravy at this point.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

If President Trump is removed from office, I hope President Pence chooses Ted Cruz as Vice President, if they win the First Jewish Cuban American Hispanic Latino Vice President, while Marco Rubio would help win Florida, I think Ted Cruz is the stronger VP candidate of the two.

>President Pence
>Not installing a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Theocracy.
I guess you can look forward to having all male-female contact of any kind banned via Executive Order?

As a Republican I don't support discrimination against gays, but that doesn't mean I am going to vote for a leftist liberal Democrat, hell no.

[The Black Forrest]

>President Pence
>Not installing a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant Theocracy.
I guess you can look forward to having all male-female contact of any kind banned via Executive Order?

As a Republican I don't support discrimination against gays, but that doesn't mean I am going to vote for a leftist liberal Democrat, hell no.

Would you vote for someone who does if the other choice is a leftist liberal democrat?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

As a Republican I don't support discrimination against gays,

Pence does not only support discriminating anybody who's not White, Male, Violently Hetero, and Baptist, he is for torturing those who are not hetero in the name of "curing" them. This is the guy America has put within a penstroke's distance from the Presidency.

[Aureumterra]

Polls say almost all Republicans are opposing the inquiry, while independents are split and Dems are in support

He means the politicians.

Republicans are split? Almost all seem to be anti impeachment

[Fartsniffage]

He means the politicians.

Republicans are split? Almost all seem to be anti impeachment

Earlier in the thread there was a source saying that 30 senate republicans would vote to convict if the vote were secret. Might be bullshit though.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

As a Republican I don't support discrimination against gays, but that doesn't mean I am going to vote for a leftist liberal Democrat, hell no.

Would you vote for someone who does if the other choice is a leftist liberal democrat?

Hell Yes, because I am Pro Make and Keep America Great Again, Anti open borders, Pro illegal immigration laws, anti illegal drivers licenses, anti illegal health care and education benefits. I am Pro Israel and the Jewish People, and anti Venezuela and anti Cuban government my pet issue on NS.

Asylum is being abused all over the world as an excuse for open borders illegal immigration.

Pro conservative economic policies. '

I am a Proud conservative Republican native Cuban and American Hispanic Latino citizen, and their is nothing wrong with that and the millions of American citizens who support President Donnie Trump.

[Gormwood]

Would you vote for someone who does if the other choice is a leftist liberal democrat?

Hell Yes, because I am Pro America Great Again, anti illegal immigration laws, anti illegal drivers licenses, anti illegal health care and education benefits. I am Pro Israel and the Jewish People, and anti Venezuela and anti Cuban government my pet issue on NS.

Pro conservative economic policies. '

I am a Proud conservative Republican native Cuban and American citizen, and their is nothing wrong with that and the millions of American citizens who support President Donnie Trump.

Fidel is dead, you can stop owing your soul to the Republicans.