Stonewall: 50 Years Later; NYPD Formally Apologizes

[The Rich Port]

Last I checked, the colloquial Gay Mafia is indeed a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

I heard it called the Lavender Mafia, not the Catholic one, as I just found out about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Mafia#Lavender_Mafia

You know damn well that's not what people were referring to.

I didn't know, actually, I've heard the "Gay Mafia" be called the Lavender Mafia before.

I didn't know it was specifically used to refer to clerical corruption, or rather, the insinuation that homosexuality is somehow directly tied to clerical corruption, instead of simply being an unrelated issue. Oh the irony that it's still a tinfoil conspiracy, just for a different reason.

[Nova Cyberia]

I think the American problem is when the peaceful protest route is taken, the oppressors respond with violence. Naturally, when met with violence, some people become less and less inclined to continue along peacefully having the shit beat out of them so they respond with violence.

Not to go too off-topic, but why do you think Americans (or some of them) are so quick to violence?

Because our country was founded by a revolution.

Still, though, at least the revolutionaries knew who to target and didn't try to destroy their own cities.

[Heloin]

Not to go too off-topic, but why do you think Americans (or some of them) are so quick to violence?

Because our country was founded by a revolution.

Still, though, at least the revolutionaries knew who to target and didn't try to destroy their own cities.

So was Belgium though.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You know damn well that's not what people were referring to.

I didn't know, actually, I've heard the "Gay Mafia" be called the Lavender Mafia before.

I didn't know it was specifically used to refer to clerical corruption, or rather, the insinuation that homosexuality is somehow directly tied to clerical corruption, instead of simply being an unrelated issue. Oh the irony that it's still a tinfoil conspiracy, just for a different reason.

No one mentioned the gay mafia or lavender mafia. You came out of nowhere with that accusation to ridicule a fact that is completely unrelated to it, and that is why I said you know well that Des Bal's comment has nothing to do with the "lavender mafia" or whatever the hell it is.

[Bear Stearns]

Absolutely, I think we are prone to forget that we need to get angry and push for progress, not sit quietly and beg nicely.

If the majority is pissed off too much, it can only backfire. This Inn was a secret homosexual bar which bribed police officers to look the other way so that it could continue operating without a liquor license and in violation of public indecency laws. It was owned by the Genovese mafia, the police were performing their normal job in trying to shut it down but got rioting.

It shouldn't matter in my view, that it was the only gay bar in NYC at the time, where dancing was allowed. The fact is that non-cisgender people could've gone to any bar within NYC if they were sufficiently closeted or within the norms of the majority.

Yeah, this event has always been kind of overblown. I don't think most Americans even know what the Stonewall Riots are.

[The New California Republic]

Yeah, this event has always been kind of overblown.

Not really.

I don't think most Americans even know what the Stonewall Riots are.

There are probably a lot of important historical events that Americans don't know about, but that says nothing about their importance.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

I think it would do my gay and trans siblings well to remember that our first Pride was a riot. Nothing is ever won from oppressors by asking politely.

Exactly. Revolution is the only path to equality. Capitalists have watered down our movement, and they have destroyed its very foundations, monetising the struggle for rights-

(/s from this point)
DO NOT FEAR CITIZEN. REMOVE THE PROPAGANDA ABOVE FROM YOUR MIND. INSTEAD, LOOK AT THIS QUEER, TRANS ARMYWOMAN AND SEE HOW FAR EQUALITY HAS GOTTEN.

[The Rich Port]

Yeah, this event has always been kind of overblown.

Not really.

I don't think most Americans even know what the Stonewall Riots are.

There are probably a lot of important historical events that Americans don't know about, but that says nothing about their importance.

I'm almost constantly out of the loop and even I know about them.

Back when The History Channel was about history they showed an LGBT special that mentioned the Stonewall riots.

Not to mention VH1's Decades series, where the 60's had a special section dedicated to LGBT rights.

And of course... John Waters is my favorite movie director and Divine was so goddamn inspired in his movies.

[Prydania]

Oh, I myself would not. I am more effective in other ways. However, the effectiveness of martyrs, even one’s whose causes would be otherwise hopeless, is well known.

Yeah like that guy who shot that synagogue.

"People fighting for LGBT+ rights are morally equivalent to white supremacists who shoot up synagogues" is one the worst bad-faith arguments I've ever seen on this site. And that's quite an accomplishment.

[Des-Bal]

"People fighting for LGBT+ rights are morally equivalent to white supremacists who shoot up synagogues" is one the worst bad-faith arguments I've ever seen on this site. And that's quite an accomplishment.

No, people using public violence and martyrdom are no better than the white supremacists doing the same. You want to fight for LGBT+ rights? Hooray. You want to use public violence to bring about a bloody revolution with no cognizable objective? Well now you're just being a little bit nutty.

Please note the problem with the synagogue shooter was apparently:

He miscalculated public opinion.

[Prydania]

"People fighting for LGBT+ rights are morally equivalent to white supremacists who shoot up synagogues" is one the worst bad-faith arguments I've ever seen on this site. And that's quite an accomplishment.

No, people using public violence and martyrdom are no better than the white supremacists doing the same. You want to fight for LGBT+ rights? Hooray. You want to use public violence to bring about a bloody revolution with no cognizable objective? Well now you're just being a little bit nutty.

I think there's a world of difference to fighting back against a system that discriminates against you and criminalizes your very being (which applies to LGBT+ folks in 1950s America) and shooting up innocent people in a place of worship.

Please note the problem with the synagogue shooter was apparently:

He miscalculated public opinion.

The person who said that was an idiot. The problem with the synagogue shooters was that that they gunned down innocent people for bigoted reasons

[Des-Bal]

I think there's a world of difference to fighting back against a system that discriminates against you and criminalizes your very being (which applies to LGBT+ folks in 1950s America) and shooting up innocent people in a place of worship.

The person who said that was an idiot. The problem with the synagogue shooters was that that they gunned down innocent people for bigoted reasons

And I think I was arguing with a person expressly calling for violence now, dismissing the idea of democracy or public discourse as a way to affect change, and writing off Robert Bowers as someone without the latest polling information.

[Prydania]

I think there's a world of difference to fighting back against a system that discriminates against you and criminalizes your very being (which applies to LGBT+ folks in 1950s America) and shooting up innocent people in a place of worship.

The person who said that was an idiot. The problem with the synagogue shooters was that that they gunned down innocent people for bigoted reasons

And I think I was arguing with a person expressly calling for violence now, dismissing the idea of democracy or public discourse as a way to affect change, and writing off Robert Bowers as someone without the latest polling information.

The problem is that America today still has its problems in terms of being a democratic society. Yes, having an open society where LGBT+ peoples are not discriminated against and have a chance to be heard is an improvement over 1960s America.
Thing is we still see "religious freedom bills" get pushed through state legislators looking to limit LGBT+ rights under the cover of religious freedom. We still see people yelling about why there's no "straight pride month" and trying to marginalize groups that want to push for full LGBT+ legal equality. There are still a number of jurisdictions even within the United States where it is legal to fire or evict someone because they are gay or bi or trans.

And so it's a fallacy to hold up the United States of America in 2019 as a free and open democracy where LGBT+ peoples have complete equality and an unsilenced voice at the table.
I'm a Red Tory of the Canadian extraction. I tend to find violent revolution distasteful and would absolutely rather see victories won at the ballot box than in the streets.

That being said? If a group is marginalized enough, like LGBT+ peoples were in 1960s America? You can't expect violent uprising to not happen. That one such uprising, Stonewall, led to decades of peaceful, lawful activism is a great thing in my opinion.

The US in 2019? Well despite the above-mentioned problems it very much is an open and free democracy compared to its 1960s America. I'll give you that. Still? You're kidding yourself if you don't think there are people of money and influence that desperately want to turn the clock back on that.
And while it's not at the point where violence is justified? You cannot expect LGBT+ peoples to react to such actions without passionate pushback. And if reactionaries attempt to strongarm LGBT+ rights back decades? Then you're going to see violent pushback.

The fact of the matter is that most LGBT+ peoples don't want violence. They want to live their lives as they are, love who they want to love without harassment. It's the reactionary subsect of society that is fond of wielding state-sanctioned violence against LGBT+ peoples that forces them to assume that there's no other way but violence of their own.

[Kvatchdom]

Apologise by arresting every single police officer responsible, and any administrators as well.