Stonewall: 50 Years Later; NYPD Formally Apologizes

[Des-Bal]

There's no such thing as a universally applicable tool.

There's no such thing as unilateral escalation.

And if the vote is useless?

Then take an L as the price of democracy or get tips from the confederate.

[Kannap]

I think the American problem is when the peaceful protest route is taken, the oppressors respond with violence. Naturally, when met with violence, some people become less and less inclined to continue along peacefully having the shit beat out of them so they respond with violence.

Not to go too off-topic, but why do you think Americans (or some of them) are so quick to violence?

1. I'm American
2. I've spent a lifetime learning American history in schools, it's violence galore.

[Nakena]

Not to go too off-topic, but why do you think Americans (or some of them) are so quick to violence?

Why do you think Americans love glorifying violent acts more so than the rest of the world?

I believe aussies are more chill and backlaid.

Except when it comes to Emus and babysnatching Dingos of course.

[New haven america]

Why do you think Americans love glorifying violent acts more so than the rest of the world?

I believe aussies are more chill and backlaid.

Except when it comes to Emus and babysnatching Dingos of course.

And casual racism, can't forget casual racism.

[Des-Bal]

1. I'm American
2. I've spent a lifetime learning American history in schools, it's violence galore.

Violence has been critical at every phase of American life. Pioneers, revolutionaries, and after the second world war our capacity to kill other humans elevated us to super power status and a hegemonic power after the cold war.

[Polish Prussian Commonwealth]

I stopped watching LoTR for this?

Fine, my own two cents.
Riots bad.
Now, back to watching more of Frodo’s bitching and whining.

[Kannap]

I stopped watching LoTR for this?

Fine, my own two cents.
Riots bad.
Now, back to watching more of Frodo’s bitching and whining.

Nobody made you stop watching LoTR. And riots? Sometimes, maybe even often, good.

[Kowani]

There's no such thing as a universally applicable tool.

There's no such thing as unilateral escalation.

And if the vote is useless?

Then take an L as the price of democracy or get tips from the confederate.

Democracy is not an inherent good, if it serves to hold back the Nation, then the People have failed. Likewise, if the ballot box is useless to achieve one’s ends, then the bullet may suffice wherein the trade-off is judged worthy.

[Threlizdun]

Those on here complaining about how it's wrong to use violence for political means better not be celebrating the Fourth of July next month.

[Kannap]

1. I'm American
2. I've spent a lifetime learning American history in schools, it's violence galore.

Violence has been critical at every phase of American life. Pioneers, revolutionaries, and after the second world war our capacity to kill other humans elevated us to super power status and a hegemonic power after the cold war.

Exactly my point, my two points were my answers when questioned as to how I came to such an "Americans are violent" conclusion.

[Kannap]

There's no such thing as unilateral escalation.
Then take an L as the price of democracy or get tips from the confederate.

Democracy is not an inherent good, if it serves to hold back the Nation, then the People have failed. Likewise, if the ballot box is useless to achieve one’s ends, then the bullet may suffice wherein the trade-off is judged worthy.

Lets not forget that 40.5 years ago, when we won the ballot box and got a candidate elected to a major office for the first time it was a straight man who pulled the trigger and an all straight jury who decided he didn't deserve to be charged with two murders. Violence begets violence.

[Des-Bal]

Democracy is not an inherent good, if it serves to hold back the Nation, then the People have failed. Likewise, if the ballot box is useless to achieve one’s ends, then the bullet may suffice wherein the trade-off is judged worthy.

Yes democracy is an inherent good because you have something other than violence to lean on. Violence is a tool but when you present it as a solution to not getting your way it belies a fundamental misunderstanding. If you're feeling froggy for a violent revolution remember that when naked bodies are being chucked in a mass grave you might not have the privilege of holding the shovel.

[Des-Bal]

I stopped watching LoTR for this?

Fine, my own two cents.
Riots bad.
Now, back to watching more of Frodo’s bitching and whining.

I disagree about the riots. When you're talking about corrupt cops and mafia extortion its noble to fight for your right to party.

[Kowani]

Democracy is not an inherent good, if it serves to hold back the Nation, then the People have failed. Likewise, if the ballot box is useless to achieve one’s ends, then the bullet may suffice wherein the trade-off is judged worthy.

Lets not forget that 40.5 years ago, when we won the ballot box and got a candidate elected to a major office for the first time it was a straight man who pulled the trigger and an all straight jury who decided he didn't deserve to be charged with two murders. Violence begets violence.

You only won the ballot box because of the riots. Was the murder a tragedy? Yes. And yet even in non-violent cases, there is a violent reprisal. To assume that the oppressor will not shoot you just because you didn’t shoot them is the height of folly.

Democracy is not an inherent good, if it serves to hold back the Nation, then the People have failed. Likewise, if the ballot box is useless to achieve one’s ends, then the bullet may suffice wherein the trade-off is judged worthy.

Yes democracy is an inherent good because you have something other than violence to lean on.

And yet that too is backed with violence. No system is not.

Violence is a tool but when you present it as a solution to not getting your way it belies a fundamental misunderstanding.

And yet, it is. It is not the most desirable of solutions, and yet it remains.

If you're feeling groggy for a violent revolution remember that when naked bodies are being chucked in a mass grave you might not have the privilege of holding the shovel.

I will be sure to inform Washington and Robespierre that rhetoric can be used against them.

[Des-Bal]

I will be sure to inform Washington and Robespierre that rhetoric can be used against them.

There's the problem. You're not overthrowing a monarchy, you're not freeing slaves, you're not doing any of the things you draw comparisons from. You're talking about a revolutionary temper tantrum in a system where your voice is dreadfully heard. If you attack that system you will be very easilly be outnumbered, outgunned, and killed or jailed. If you can't win a vote maybe don't make it a street fight.

[Kowani]

I will be sure to inform Washington and Robespierre that rhetoric can be used against them.

There's the problem. You're not overthrowing a monarchy, you're not freeing slaves, you're not doing any of the things you draw comparisons from. You're talking about a revolutionary temper tantrum in a system where your voice is dreadfully heard. If you attack that system you will be very easilly be outnumbered, outgunned, and killed or jailed. If you can't win a vote maybe don't make it a street fight.

You are aware of the concept of martyrdom, no?

[-MAFDET-]

Nice to see gays are celebrating violent crime. Doesn't make me afraid at all.

As I always say, violence is a legitimate political tool.

But only if it is left wing.

Man, you talk so much shit.

[The Rich Port]

Absolutely, I think we are prone to forget that we need to get angry and push for progress, not sit quietly and beg nicely.

If the majority is pissed off too much, it can only backfire. This Inn was a secret homosexual bar which bribed police officers to look the other way so that it could continue operating without a liquor license and in violation of public indecency laws. It was owned by the Genovese mafia, the police were performing their normal job in trying to shut it down but got rioting.

It shouldn't matter in my view, that it was the only gay bar in NYC at the time, where dancing was allowed. The fact is that non-cisgender people could've gone to any bar within NYC if they were sufficiently closeted or within the norms of the majority.

Yeah, blame people for having to resort to criminality because they had no other choice. That's nice.

[Des-Bal]

You are aware of the concept of martyrdom, no?

The problem is you think you're Jesus but you're a suicide bomber.

[Kowani]

You are aware of the concept of martyrdom, no?

The problem is you think you're Jesus but you're a suicide bomber.

Oh, I myself would not. I am more effective in other ways. However, the effectiveness of martyrs, even one’s whose causes would be otherwise hopeless, is well known.

[Des-Bal]

Oh, I myself would not. I am more effective in other ways. However, the effectiveness of martyrs, even one’s whose causes would be otherwise hopeless, is well known.

Yeah like that guy who shot that synagogue.

[Heloin]

The problem is you think you're Jesus but you're a suicide bomber.

Oh, I myself would not. I am more effective in other ways. However, the effectiveness of martyrs, even one’s whose causes would be otherwise hopeless, is well known.

The best martyrs aren't the ones who throw themselves into situations were they are likely to be killed, but the people who'd very much prefer to live through to the end of what's happening. I doubt Biko, King, or Milk appreciated being killed.

[Arcturus Novus]

Oh, I myself would not. I am more effective in other ways. However, the effectiveness of martyrs, even one’s whose causes would be otherwise hopeless, is well known.

Yeah like that guy who shot that synagogue.

Why don't we avoid comparing angry LGBT people to antisemitic terrorists?

[Des-Bal]

Why don't we avoid comparing angry LGBT people to antisemitic terrorists?

Let's stop using violent and delusional revolutionary language if we'd like to avoid comparisons to violent and delusional revolutionaries.

[Arcturus Novus]

Why don't we avoid comparing angry LGBT people to antisemitic terrorists?

Let's stop using violent and delusional revolutionary language if we'd like to avoid comparisons to violent and delusional revolutionaries.

I wouldn't call the Tree of Life shooter a revolutionary, by any means. He went into a synagogue to kill Jews. He wasn't fighting against civil injustice, he wasn't part of a historically oppressed group, he was a neo-Nazi who wanted to kill Jews. That's it.