Desmond Napoles or how gender 'liberation' can lead to abuse

[Cappuccina]

No no, you're not understanding my position on this at all. I'm not defending this at all, in fact I oppose it. I'm saying that as an LBGT person and an individual with a conservative view of sexuality, that this isn't an LBGT thing, the community isn't a monolith with everyone supporting that same things.

But you are defending it. Attacking those that call this out is defending it.

I didn't do that..... I was rejecting your accusations that this was supported by LBGT people in general, which it isn't.

You're trying to make me out to be an opponent to you on this, when I'm really not.

[Washington Resistance Army]

But you are defending it. Attacking those that call this out is defending it.

I didn't do that..... I was rejecting your accusations that this was supported by LBGT people in general, which it isn't.

You're trying to make me out to be an opponent to you on this, when I'm really not.

tbf at least on this site most of the LGBT users seems to be generally ambivalent and a few seem outright supportive

[Gormwood]

The kid'll grow up to be an embittered right-wing figure with a podcast trying to escape his past by shutting down as many LGBT rights as possible.

CSA fucks people up, don't try and downplay the impacts it can have on people later down the line just because he's been made into an LGBT icon.

Where's your evidence he's being sexually abused?

[Des-Bal]

I didn't do that..... I was rejecting your accusations that this was supported by LBGT people in general, which it isn't.

You're trying to make me out to be an opponent to you on this, when I'm really not.

And how do you adjudge that it's not supported in general? Is it just the fact that mainstream sources being on board with the idea doesn't every single person is?

[Liriena]

Lots of not-so-subtly homophobic boomery in here, falsely conflating the praise towards Desmond as a drag performer with support for child sexual exploitation.

Drag is not inherently sexual, let alone exploitative, and gender non-conforming children deserve acceptance and support. As do children with creative hobbies like drag.

If you are not trying to peddle homophobic hysteria by way of accusatory manipulations, I'm sure you can walk and chew gum at the same time, and distinguish between something essentially harmless like crossdressing and something questionable like dancing "lewdly" for adults at a bar.

[Cannot think of a name]

Hey, this thread again. How's it going this time around?

Same old shit, equating drag with sexual performance and stripping and LGBT with pedophilia. People trying to couch their bigotry as a concern for the children as part of long tradition of demonizing marginalized groups.

Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.

In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic references are on a different web page]

In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this canard.

It has also been raised in connection with scandals about the Catholic church's attempts to cover up the abuse of young males by priests. Indeed, the Vatican's early response to the 2002 revelations of widespread Church cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests was to declare that gay men should not be ordained.

Apparently taking off a smock to reveal a costume is sexual because people cheered. You can only cheer if you got a boner, it appears. Suddenly, now, children performers are the worst thing ever and everyone is Helen Lovejoy...

[Cappuccina]

I didn't do that..... I was rejecting your accusations that this was supported by LBGT people in general, which it isn't.

You're trying to make me out to be an opponent to you on this, when I'm really not.

And how do you adjudge that it's not supported in general? Is it just the fact that mainstream sources being on board with the idea doesn't every single person is?

I suppose my argument could be more accurately: there is no proof this is supported in general by the LBGT community. It's obvious, the leftist LBGT organizations and Hollywood would support this, it's their nature....but average LBGT folks, I doubt they'd outright support it.

[Galloism]

Lots of not-so-subtly homophobic boomery in here, falsely conflating the praise towards Desmond as a drag performer with support for child sexual exploitation.

Drag is not inherently sexual, let alone exploitative, and gender non-conforming children deserve acceptance and support. As do children with creative hobbies like drag.

If you are not trying to peddle homophobic hysteria by way of accusatory manipulations, I'm sure you can walk and chew gum at the same time, and distinguish between something essentially harmless like crossdressing and something questionable like dancing "lewdly" for adults at a bar.

I'm sure a child performing at a bar filled with boozey adults and sporting this logo is totes legit and dandy:



No I'm not making that up. That's their actual logo from their website.

[Ifreann]

Hey, this thread again. How's it going this time around?

Same old shit, equating drag with sexual performance and stripping and LGBT with pedophilia. People trying to couch their bigotry as a concern for the children as part of long tradition of demonizing marginalized groups.

Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.

In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic references are on a different web page]

In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this canard.

It has also been raised in connection with scandals about the Catholic church's attempts to cover up the abuse of young males by priests. Indeed, the Vatican's early response to the 2002 revelations of widespread Church cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests was to declare that gay men should not be ordained.

Apparently taking off a smock to reveal a costume is sexual because people cheered. You can only cheer if you got a boner, it appears. Suddenly, now, children performers are the worst thing ever and everyone is Helen Lovejoy...

The cheering==sexual bit sounds new. I wonder what happens at school plays or youth sporting events in the US. Stoic silence?

[Des-Bal]

Lots of not-so-subtly homophobic boomery in here, falsely conflating the praise towards Desmond as a drag performer with support for child sexual exploitation.

Drag is not inherently sexual, let alone exploitative, and gender non-conforming children deserve acceptance and support. As do children with creative hobbies like drag.

If you are not trying to peddle homophobic hysteria by way of accusatory manipulations, I'm sure you can walk and chew gum at the same time, and distinguish between something essentially harmless like crossdressing and something questionable like dancing "lewdly" for adults at a bar.

No it's totally sexual and nobody would be on board for this shit if he was a girl dancing for cheering men.

Hey, this thread again. How's it going this time around?

Same old shit, equating drag with sexual performance and stripping and LGBT with pedophilia. People trying to couch their bigotry as a concern for the children as part of long tradition of demonizing marginalized groups.

Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.

In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic references are on a different web page]

In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this canard.

It has also been raised in connection with scandals about the Catholic church's attempts to cover up the abuse of young males by priests. Indeed, the Vatican's early response to the 2002 revelations of widespread Church cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests was to declare that gay men should not be ordained.

Apparently taking off a smock to reveal a costume is sexual because people cheered. You can only cheer if you got a boner, it appears. Suddenly, now, children performers are the worst thing ever and everyone is Helen Lovejoy...

See the idea of the whole "think of the children meme" is that it's about moderating people's behavior for the sake of some nebulous impact on the children. If it was said in response to a minor being sexualized for the entertainment of a adults it wouldn't really have reached memetic status.

[Galloism]

The cheering==sexual bit sounds new. I wonder what happens at school plays or youth sporting events in the US. Stoic silence?

There's various types of cheers. "Yeah!" or "Go Team!' or the cycling grunting sounds (I don't know what to call that) or clapping is typical at school plays, sporting events, etc.

"Whooooooooo!" is typically reserved for strippers or exotic dancers.

[Gormwood]

Same old shit, equating drag with sexual performance and stripping and LGBT with pedophilia. People trying to couch their bigotry as a concern for the children as part of long tradition of demonizing marginalized groups.

Apparently taking off a smock to reveal a costume is sexual because people cheered. You can only cheer if you got a boner, it appears. Suddenly, now, children performers are the worst thing ever and everyone is Helen Lovejoy...

The cheering==sexual bit sounds new. I wonder what happens at school plays or youth sporting events in the US. Stoic silence?

High school wrestling.

[Cannot think of a name]

Same old shit, equating drag with sexual performance and stripping and LGBT with pedophilia. People trying to couch their bigotry as a concern for the children as part of long tradition of demonizing marginalized groups.

Apparently taking off a smock to reveal a costume is sexual because people cheered. You can only cheer if you got a boner, it appears. Suddenly, now, children performers are the worst thing ever and everyone is Helen Lovejoy...

The cheering==sexual bit sounds new. I wonder what happens at school plays or youth sporting events in the US. Stoic silence?

Or a bunch of weird boners, I guess.

[Vassenor]

So yeah, this thread is basically distilled concern trolling?

[Cannot think of a name]

So yeah, this thread is basically distilled concern trolling?

Circle gets the square.

[Des-Bal]

So yeah, this thread is basically distilled concern trolling?

No it's about the sexualization of children which people seem weirdly cool with.

[Galloism]

And how do you adjudge that it's not supported in general? Is it just the fact that mainstream sources being on board with the idea doesn't every single person is?

I suppose my argument could be more accurately: there is no proof this is supported in general by the LBGT community. It's obvious, the leftist LBGT organizations and Hollywood would support this, it's their nature....but average LBGT folks, I doubt they'd outright support it.

Well, LGBT folks are not a monolith.

Just light straight cisgender individuals are not a monolith.

Some are ok with children dancing in seedy bars while alcohol fueled adults throw dollar bills at them, while others aren't.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So yeah, this thread is basically distilled concern trolling?

No it's about the sexualization of children which people seem weirdly cool with.

But remember, pedos trying to normalize their views are all just time travelling 4chan trolls according to some here.

[Cannot think of a name]

I suppose my argument could be more accurately: there is no proof this is supported in general by the LBGT community. It's obvious, the leftist LBGT organizations and Hollywood would support this, it's their nature....but average LBGT folks, I doubt they'd outright support it.

Well, LGBT folks are not a monolith.

Just light straight cisgender individuals are not a monolith.

Some are ok with children dancing in seedy bars while alcohol fueled adults throw dollar bills at them, while others aren't.

Hand.

[Galloism]

Well, LGBT folks are not a monolith.

Just light straight cisgender individuals are not a monolith.

Some are ok with children dancing in seedy bars while alcohol fueled adults throw dollar bills at them, while others aren't.

Hand.

That's less relevant of a distinction than you would assume.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No no, you're not understanding my position on this at all. I'm not defending this at all, in fact I oppose it. I'm saying that as an LBGT person and an individual with a conservative view of sexuality, that this isn't an LBGT thing, the community isn't a monolith with everyone supporting that same things.

But you are defending it. Attacking those that call this out is defending it.

That doesnt go against what i said?

Doesn't it? Is OUT not part of the LGBT community? and if not why does the LGBT community allow OUT to speak for it?

No it doesnt, because an organisation or two from a community supporting something doesnt mean everyone in that community supports it. They are not a hive mind, just because one group of people of a communtity support something doesnt mean the rest of them to simply because they are from the same community.

[Des-Bal]

That's less relevant of a distinction than you would assume.

Honestly it's probably worse.

[Cannot think of a name]

Hand.

That's less relevant of a distinction than you would assume.

Once you decode all your language, it becomes less inflammatory. Throwing is a harsher implication that being handed bills, stripping is more salacious than taking off a smock to reveal...someone who is still fully clothed and in the tradition of drag wearing the costume of the performer they're imitating, and apparently I've been using "wooo" wrong this entire time.

[Des-Bal]

Once you decode all your language, it becomes less inflammatory. Throwing is a harsher implication that being handed bills, stripping is more salacious than taking off a smock to reveal...someone who is still fully clothed and in the tradition of drag wearing the costume of the performer they're imitating, and apparently I've been using "wooo" wrong this entire time.

Throwing is less inflammatory because it doesn't involve close contact between the spectator and the performer or the performer being party to the transfer.

[Liriena]

Lots of not-so-subtly homophobic boomery in here, falsely conflating the praise towards Desmond as a drag performer with support for child sexual exploitation.

Drag is not inherently sexual, let alone exploitative, and gender non-conforming children deserve acceptance and support. As do children with creative hobbies like drag.

If you are not trying to peddle homophobic hysteria by way of accusatory manipulations, I'm sure you can walk and chew gum at the same time, and distinguish between something essentially harmless like crossdressing and something questionable like dancing "lewdly" for adults at a bar.

I'm sure a child performing at a bar filled with boozey adults and sporting this logo is totes legit and dandy:



No I'm not making that up. That's their actual logo from their website.

Did you... did you even read what I posted?