Desmond Napoles or how gender 'liberation' can lead to abuse

[Cannot think of a name]

Does it? Because in the camp tradition of drag, he is wearing the same outfit that Gwen Stefani wears in the performance of "I'm Just a Girl", and how low is the bar for erotic dancing if putting your hands up and bouncing back and forth counts?

Also, a little disingenuous to equate him being handed money to the kind of tipping that's done in a strip show. He's not holding out his waistband for them to stuff dollars in, they're literally handing it to them. He does nothing special for those who give him the dollars except bounce back to the middle of the stage to drop it so he can continue his routine. I play sax on street corners where people give me dollar bills, am I being erotic? It is a saxophone...piano players have a jar on their piano, is that erotic? During performances of Raga music audience members literally get on stage and drop money on the performer. Tipping in this manner is part of drag shows, it is not inherently sexual.

Sorry, I'm still seeing camp. He's not being touched, he's performing an ultimately watered down performance of the person he's imitating.

I’m sure stripping off the smock at 0:35 followed by people screaming “woo” has no connotation whatsoever, and the pelvic thrust at 1:23 was purely innocent containing no sexual connotations at all.

Honestly, not much. The costume reveal isn't really as big a deal as you'd like it to be and you're really combing to find that 'thrust.'

I’ve seen a lot of drag shows - never seen tipping at them.

Okay. I've had a drag performer as a roommate, been friends with them, have worked shows both filming them and working the stage crews. Tipping is not unheard of. I'm glad you enjoy your netflix. I've actually met and talked to those who do it.

Anyway, if, while playing the sax, you strip off a piece of clothing while they scream in glee, then do a pelvic thrust, all while collecting dollar bills from the crowd, I’d say you’re being sexual.

I mean, I guess everyone watches that video through their own lens. Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for? It looks like a kid bouncing back and forth imitating Gwen Stefani to me. That's what makes the Stewart Test such a shit metric.

Regarding placement of dollars, that’s why I said it’s more similar to erotic dancing than drag shows, not the same. If it were the same, he’d be picking them up with his teeth or something.

That's splitting some hairs, honestly.

[Galloism]

I’m sure stripping off the smock at 0:35 followed by people screaming “woo” has no connotation whatsoever, and the pelvic thrust at 1:23 was purely innocent containing no sexual connotations at all.

Honestly, not much. The costume reveal isn't really as big a deal as you'd like it to be and you're really combing to find that 'thrust.'

The back arch with hips forward maneuver at both 1:43 and 2:03 is just normal performance art too.

Probably just needed to stretch. Easy to get a cramp while dancing. Could happen to anyone.

I’ve seen a lot of drag shows - never seen tipping at them.

Okay. I've had a drag performer as a roommate, been friends with them, have worked shows both filming them and working the stage crews. Tipping is not unheard of. I'm glad you enjoy your netflix. I've actually met and talked to those who do it.

If you say so.

Anyway, if, while playing the sax, you strip off a piece of clothing while they scream in glee, then do a pelvic thrust, all while collecting dollar bills from the crowd, I’d say you’re being sexual.

I mean, I guess everyone watches that video through their own lens. Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for? It looks like a kid bouncing back and forth imitating Gwen Stefani to me. That's what makes the Stewart Test such a shit metric.

I searched for Stewart test and got something about an aneurysm.

I don’t like seeing children exploited. This smells like exploitation, looks like exploitation, and acts like exploitation. Maybe I’m on the wrong scent, but I doubt it.

Regarding placement of dollars, that’s why I said it’s more similar to erotic dancing than drag shows, not the same. If it were the same, he’d be picking them up with his teeth or something.

That's splitting some hairs, honestly.

It’s a strange bar too. Not sure how they got the video - the bar has a “no cell phone policy”, and even lock up your cell phone before entry.

And yes I do have a source for that:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39409/11 ... stigiacomo

I’ve never seen a bar do that. I have seen strip clubs do that, and clubs with erotic dancing, but never just a “hey totes this is just an ordinary bar” do that.

[Uiiop]

Honestly, not much. The costume reveal isn't really as big a deal as you'd like it to be and you're really combing to find that 'thrust.'

The back arch with hips forward maneuver at both 1:43 and 2:03 is just normal performance art too.

Probably just needed to stretch. Easy to get a cramp while dancing. Could happen to anyone.

Okay. I've had a drag performer as a roommate, been friends with them, have worked shows both filming them and working the stage crews. Tipping is not unheard of. I'm glad you enjoy your netflix. I've actually met and talked to those who do it.

If you say so.

I mean, I guess everyone watches that video through their own lens. Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for? It looks like a kid bouncing back and forth imitating Gwen Stefani to me. That's what makes the Stewart Test such a shit metric.

I searched for Stewart test and got something about an aneurysm.

I don’t like seeing children exploited. This smells like exploitation, looks like exploitation, and acts like exploitation. Maybe I’m on the wrong scent, but I doubt it.

That's splitting some hairs, honestly.

It’s a strange bar too. Not sure how they got the video - the bar has a “no cell phone policy”, and even lock up your cell phone before entry.

And yes I do have a source for that:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39409/11 ... stigiacomo

I’ve never seen a bar do that. I have seen strip clubs do that, and clubs with erotic dancing, but never just a “hey totes this is just an ordinary bar” do that.

https://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/09/at ... -the-door/
Well they gave a reason for it. Just not the reasons you and CTOAN assumed.
Also if google "Drag show tips" It's clear it's a thing.

[Cannot think of a name]

Honestly, not much. The costume reveal isn't really as big a deal as you'd like it to be and you're really combing to find that 'thrust.'

The back arch with hips forward maneuver at both 1:43 and 2:03 is just normal performance art too.

Probably just needed to stretch. Easy to get a cramp while dancing. Could happen to anyone.

Again, you see what you want to see. I'm not going to go frame by frame, move by move to make sure this kid doesn't accidently move his hips too far or lean back too much. What I see his him doing an 11 year olds imitation of Gwen Stefani.

Okay. I've had a drag performer as a roommate, been friends with them, have worked shows both filming them and working the stage crews. Tipping is not unheard of. I'm glad you enjoy your netflix. I've actually met and talked to those who do it.

If you say so.

I didn't want to mention it, but after 'watching netflix and youtube' was being authoritative it became too much. I lived in and around San Francisco for almost 20 years among artists. I understand it undermines the nefarious notion of what happens but it's just not the people I know.

I mean, I guess everyone watches that video through their own lens. Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for? It looks like a kid bouncing back and forth imitating Gwen Stefani to me. That's what makes the Stewart Test such a shit metric.

I searched for Stewart test and got something about an aneurysm.

Maybe it's called the Potter Test. Either way, it's the idea that when it comes to pornography one will "know it when they see it."

I don’t like seeing children exploited. This smells like exploitation, looks like exploitation, and acts like exploitation. Maybe I’m on the wrong scent, but I doubt it.

Maybe the problem is you're too busy trying to pin a medal on yourself? Why make this statement? To imply I do like to see children exploited? That's some weak shit, man.

It’s a strange bar too. Not sure how they got the video - the bar has a “no cell phone policy”, and even lock up your cell phone before entry.

And yes I do have a source for that:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39409/11 ... stigiacomo

I’ve never seen a bar do that. I have seen strip clubs do that, and clubs with erotic dancing, but never just a “hey totes this is just an ordinary bar” do that.

I have definitely seen that. It has a lot to do with them not wanting to be your spectacle. As Pride is coming up you can find a lot about that, about not being there for you to share as a demonstration of your being into 'alternatives' or to make fun of the performers.

Remember, Pride is not a spectator sport

Pride doesn’t exist so that spectators can gawk at those who are different. As Storms puts it, don’t make people feel like fish in a bowl or animals in a zoo. Storms gave the example of bachelorette parties going to gay bars and asking to kiss or touch LGBTQ patrons. Respect LGBTQ individuals as you would any other group of people in public.

or

3. Do not take pictures or Snaps of us without permission.

You’re going to see leather folks, drag performers, transgender people, non-binary people, nakedness, gender fuckery and some wild outfits. We’re not here to be a spectacle for you. We’re here to celebrate with folks who are like us. Don’t post photos of us on social media as a way to be “edgy” or to show your “superior open-mindedness.” And don’t make fun of us on the internet. We don’t exist for your amusement.

While these articles are specific to Pride, the reasoning is the same.

The very fact that we're having to have this conversation is exactly why they don't want it filmed. Because a kid bouncing back and forth is gone through move by move to make force it into a sexual context so shitty people on the internet can complain about these terrible deviants corrupting the children.

[Galloism]

https://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/09/at ... -the-door/
Well they gave a reason for it.

[x] to doubt

Also if google "Drag show tips" It's clear it's a thing.

So I searched “drag show tips” and I get a lot of tips on etiquette, etc.

[Uiiop]

https://bedfordandbowery.com/2018/09/at ... -the-door/
Well they gave a reason for it.

[x] to doubt

Also if google "Drag show tips" It's clear it's a thing.

So I searched “drag show tips” and I get a lot of tips on etiquette, etc.

Fair but the new now next result is explicitly about tips on tipping

[Bombadil]

Sure, and we can get rid of child beauty pageants as well.

[Galloism]

The back arch with hips forward maneuver at both 1:43 and 2:03 is just normal performance art too.

Probably just needed to stretch. Easy to get a cramp while dancing. Could happen to anyone.

Again, you see what you want to see. I'm not going to go frame by frame, move by move to make sure this kid doesn't accidently move his hips too far or lean back too much. What I see his him doing an 11 year olds imitation of Gwen Stefani.

Then you aren't paying attention.

I searched for Stewart test and got something about an aneurysm.

Maybe it's called the Potter Test. Either way, it's the idea that when it comes to pornography one will "know it when they see it."

Oh, The Supreme Court test. Yes, that's kind of a shit test.

I don’t like seeing children exploited. This smells like exploitation, looks like exploitation, and acts like exploitation. Maybe I’m on the wrong scent, but I doubt it.

Maybe the problem is you're too busy trying to pin a medal on yourself? Why make this statement? To imply I do like to see children exploited? That's some weak shit, man.

No, rather that as a former police officer I've seen way too many children exploited and we had to come with CPS to take them out of their homes. Children who said they liked their exploitation, because they were too young to know they were being exploited.

As far as implications about other posters go, while I was intending no implication toward you, remember you said this:

Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for?

Those in glass houses CTOAN. You probably felt there was an implication there because of a guilty conscience.

It’s a strange bar too. Not sure how they got the video - the bar has a “no cell phone policy”, and even lock up your cell phone before entry.

And yes I do have a source for that:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/39409/11 ... stigiacomo

I’ve never seen a bar do that. I have seen strip clubs do that, and clubs with erotic dancing, but never just a “hey totes this is just an ordinary bar” do that.

I have definitely seen that. It has a lot to do with them not wanting to be your spectacle. As Pride is coming up you can find a lot about that, about not being there for you to share as a demonstration of your being into 'alternatives' or to make fun of the performers.

Remember, Pride is not a spectator sport

Pride doesn’t exist so that spectators can gawk at those who are different. As Storms puts it, don’t make people feel like fish in a bowl or animals in a zoo. Storms gave the example of bachelorette parties going to gay bars and asking to kiss or touch LGBTQ patrons. Respect LGBTQ individuals as you would any other group of people in public.

or

3. Do not take pictures or Snaps of us without permission.

You’re going to see leather folks, drag performers, transgender people, non-binary people, nakedness, gender fuckery and some wild outfits. We’re not here to be a spectacle for you. We’re here to celebrate with folks who are like us. Don’t post photos of us on social media as a way to be “edgy” or to show your “superior open-mindedness.” And don’t make fun of us on the internet. We don’t exist for your amusement.

While these articles are specific to Pride, the reasoning is the same.

The very fact that we're having to have this conversation is exactly why they don't want it filmed. Because a kid bouncing back and forth is gone through move by move to make force it into a sexual context so shitty people on the internet can complain about these terrible deviants corrupting the children.

Or maybe we're against child exploitation, and this is a seedy bar with a no cell phone policy where a kid strips off clothes and dances while people throw money at him.

If you replaced him with a woman, it'd be a gentleman's club. Full stop.

[Galloism]

Sure, and we can get rid of child beauty pageants as well.

Yes, we should. Unironically.

[Bombadil]

Sure, and we can get rid of child beauty pageants as well.

Yes, we should. Unironically.

I mean why people are getting hung up on using a child to achieve fame now.. how often does that go wrong?

[Galloism]

Yes, we should. Unironically.

I mean why people are getting hung up on using a child to achieve fame now.. how often does that go wrong?

Some percentage of the time precipitously close to 100?

[Bombadil]

I mean why people are getting hung up on using a child to achieve fame now.. how often does that go wrong?

Some percentage of the time precipitously close to 100?

Pretty much, I recently saw a documentary along the lines of 'what happened to those kids from Diff'rent Strokes' and the answer was not good™

I mean, I don't think this is really a case of gender liberation leading to abuse as opposed to making money out of your kid is not, generally, a great idea.

[Galloism]

Some percentage of the time precipitously close to 100?

Pretty much, I recently saw a documentary along the lines of 'what happened to those kids from Diff'rent Strokes' and the answer was not good™

I mean, I don't think this is really a case of gender liberation leading to abuse as opposed to making money out of your kid is not, generally, a great idea.

I’m also, in general terms, opposed to professional child stars.

As you said, it often turns out horrible. The kid keeps the money flowing, and parents (and others) do horrible things to keep them generating money. Abuse, drugs, you name it. As you said, it’s not a good idea.

[Uiiop]

Again, you see what you want to see. I'm not going to go frame by frame, move by move to make sure this kid doesn't accidently move his hips too far or lean back too much. What I see his him doing an 11 year olds imitation of Gwen Stefani.

Then you aren't paying attention.

Maybe it's called the Potter Test. Either way, it's the idea that when it comes to pornography one will "know it when they see it."

Oh, The Supreme Court test. Yes, that's kind of a shit test.

Maybe the problem is you're too busy trying to pin a medal on yourself? Why make this statement? To imply I do like to see children exploited? That's some weak shit, man.

No, rather that as a former police officer I've seen way too many children exploited and we had to come with CPS to take them out of their homes. Children who said they liked their exploitation, because they were too young to know they were being exploited.

As far as implications about other posters go, while I was intending no implication toward you, remember you said this:

Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for?

Those in glass houses CTOAN. You probably felt there was an implication there because of a guilty conscience.

I have definitely seen that. It has a lot to do with them not wanting to be your spectacle. As Pride is coming up you can find a lot about that, about not being there for you to share as a demonstration of your being into 'alternatives' or to make fun of the performers.

or

While these articles are specific to Pride, the reasoning is the same.

The very fact that we're having to have this conversation is exactly why they don't want it filmed. Because a kid bouncing back and forth is gone through move by move to make force it into a sexual context so shitty people on the internet can complain about these terrible deviants corrupting the children.

Or maybe we're against child exploitation, and this is a seedy bar with a no cell phone policy where a kid strips off clothes and dances while people throw money at him.

If you replaced him with a woman, it'd be a gentleman's club. Full stop.

Man i just watched your selections slices multiple times. I see where you're coming from but it really is ambiguous enough that he may just be only imitating moves from someone he liked without knowing what they are. I know i saw similar moves and such when i was his age on music videos and wanted to dance like that.

There isn't to say there isn't any exploitation going on. Just that nothing seems clear.

[Cannot think of a name]

Again, you see what you want to see. I'm not going to go frame by frame, move by move to make sure this kid doesn't accidently move his hips too far or lean back too much. What I see his him doing an 11 year olds imitation of Gwen Stefani.

Then you aren't paying attention.

Maybe it's called the Potter Test. Either way, it's the idea that when it comes to pornography one will "know it when they see it."

Oh, The Supreme Court test. Yes, that's kind of a shit test.

Maybe the problem is you're too busy trying to pin a medal on yourself? Why make this statement? To imply I do like to see children exploited? That's some weak shit, man.

No, rather that as a former police officer I've seen way too many children exploited and we had to come with CPS to take them out of their homes. Children who said they liked their exploitation, because they were too young to know they were being exploited.

As far as implications about other posters go, while I was intending no implication toward you, remember you said this:

Because frankly the idea of finding that sexual creeps me out more than the dance does because what is that person who thinks its sexual looking for?

Those in glass houses CTOAN. You probably felt there was an implication there because of a guilty conscience.

I have definitely seen that. It has a lot to do with them not wanting to be your spectacle. As Pride is coming up you can find a lot about that, about not being there for you to share as a demonstration of your being into 'alternatives' or to make fun of the performers.

or

While these articles are specific to Pride, the reasoning is the same.

The very fact that we're having to have this conversation is exactly why they don't want it filmed. Because a kid bouncing back and forth is gone through move by move to make force it into a sexual context so shitty people on the internet can complain about these terrible deviants corrupting the children.

Or maybe we're against child exploitation, and this is a seedy bar with a no cell phone policy where a kid strips off clothes and dances while people throw money at him.

If you replaced him with a woman, it'd be a gentleman's club. Full stop.

Alright, taking past each other at this point.

But to recap, this is my ask: this kid is participating in a camp performance with an almost century long history that includes persecution based on anti-lgbt sentiment that mislabels it a sexually deviant act.

Or,

There is this long camp tradition BUT, they dug up a kid and coerced him to conform to the same bigoted stereotypes the of drag performers going so far as to introduce elements like tipping so it would be a sexual performance, and that taking off a smock to do a costume reveal is stripping.

But I’ve seen this ride before and it smells like someone is about to martyr themselves again by calling me a pedophile in their sig, so I’m out. I’ve made my case, outrage denied. Make your own conclusions, but one is a considerable stretch from where I’m siting.

[Galloism]

Alright, taking past each other at this point.

But to recap, this is my ask: this kid is participating in a camp performance with an almost century long history that includes persecution based on anti-lgbt sentiment that mislabels it a sexually deviant act.

Or,

There is this long camp tradition BUT, they dug up a kid and coerced him to conform to the same bigoted stereotypes the of drag performers going so far as to introduce elements like tipping so it would be a sexual performance, and that taking off a smock to do a costume reveal is stripping.

But I’ve seen this ride before and it smells like someone is about to martyr themselves again by calling me a pedophile in their sig, so I’m out. I’ve made my case, outrage denied. Make your own conclusions, but one is a considerable stretch from where I’m siting.

Basically, there’s a kid acting in an overtly sexual manner inside a gay club that is so seedy, they don’t permit cell phones. Should we be ok with this?

Having been a police officer, I can tell you in my experience there are basically three kinds of places that confiscate cell phones.

1) High end art galleries
2) Prisons
3) Really really seedy joints

I don’t see any guards or any high end art.

Moving on, that’s the question we have to ask ourselves. It’s not even about forcing - children can be manipulated into things without coercion, because they are children. This can even persist into adulthood - David Epstein famously abused his daughter and she still loved him and refused to testify against him.

They may not see it as wrong even, but erotically dancing in a seedy joint while a bunch of drunk people throw money at you is not a thing children should be doing.

[Kowani]

Alright, taking past each other at this point.

But to recap, this is my ask: this kid is participating in a camp performance with an almost century long history that includes persecution based on anti-lgbt sentiment that mislabels it a sexually deviant act.

Or,

There is this long camp tradition BUT, they dug up a kid and coerced him to conform to the same bigoted stereotypes the of drag performers going so far as to introduce elements like tipping so it would be a sexual performance, and that taking off a smock to do a costume reveal is stripping.

But I’ve seen this ride before and it smells like someone is about to martyr themselves again by calling me a pedophile in their sig, so I’m out. I’ve made my case, outrage denied. Make your own conclusions, but one is a considerable stretch from where I’m siting.

Basically, there’s a kid acting in an overtly sexual manner inside a gay club that is so seedy, they don’t permit cell phones. Should we be ok with this?

Having been a police officer, I can tell you in my experience there are basically three kinds of places that confiscate cell phones.

1) High end art galleries
2) Prisons
3) Really really seedy joints

I don’t see any guards or any high end art.

Moving on, that’s the question we have to ask ourselves. It’s not even about forcing - children can be manipulated into things without coercion, because they are children. This can even persist into adulthood - David Epstein famously abused his daughter and she still loved him and refused to testify against him.

They may not see it as wrong even, but erotically dancing in a seedy joint while a bunch of drunk people throw money at you is not a thing children should be doing.

4 places: Schools. Or rather, strict classrooms.

[Vassenor]

So people are still trying to exploit this kid to justify homophobic bigotry?

[Uiiop]

Basically, there’s a kid acting in an overtly sexual manner inside a gay club that is so seedy, they don’t permit cell phones. Should we be ok with this?

Having been a police officer, I can tell you in my experience there are basically three kinds of places that confiscate cell phones.

1) High end art galleries
2) Prisons
3) Really really seedy joints

I don’t see any guards or any high end art.

Moving on, that’s the question we have to ask ourselves. It’s not even about forcing - children can be manipulated into things without coercion, because they are children. This can even persist into adulthood - David Epstein famously abused his daughter and she still loved him and refused to testify against him.

They may not see it as wrong even, but erotically dancing in a seedy joint while a bunch of drunk people throw money at you is not a thing children should be doing.

4 places: Schools. Or rather, strict classrooms.

5 places: some Concerts, Stand-ups and the like.
Partly to combat bootlegging and partly because of the effect that this bar(Itself a venue for those type of things) cites in it's own reasoning.

I mean it could be that it's both seedy and it genuinely believes in the reason it restricts cell phones.

[Cannot think of a name]

Alright, taking past each other at this point.

But to recap, this is my ask: this kid is participating in a camp performance with an almost century long history that includes persecution based on anti-lgbt sentiment that mislabels it a sexually deviant act.

Or,

There is this long camp tradition BUT, they dug up a kid and coerced him to conform to the same bigoted stereotypes the of drag performers going so far as to introduce elements like tipping so it would be a sexual performance, and that taking off a smock to do a costume reveal is stripping.

But I’ve seen this ride before and it smells like someone is about to martyr themselves again by calling me a pedophile in their sig, so I’m out. I’ve made my case, outrage denied. Make your own conclusions, but one is a considerable stretch from where I’m siting.

Basically, there’s a kid acting in an overtly sexual manner inside a gay club that is so seedy, they don’t permit cell phones. Should we be ok with this?

This is a classic case of begging the question. To reach your conclusion I have to accept several premises in contention. That he is performing in an overtly sexual manner. I don’t accept that conclusion. That a gay bar makes a difference. Would it be okay if the bar didn’t specify? Why? That the bars cell phone policy is because they are seedy. Three examples have been provided to for a rational reason, so I reject that premise as well. With the three premises not agreed on, the conclusion does not follow.

Having been a police officer, I can tell you in my experience there are basically three kinds of places that confiscate cell phones.

1) High end art galleries
2) Prisons
3) Really really seedy joints

I don’t see any guards or any high end art.

Having been someone who has sat on many curbs because a police officer is searching my car in vane because I’m their experience there are limited reasons I could be doing something or driving my friend home from Berkeley because in a police officers experience there’s a limited reason for a black man to stand next to his dorm luggage at the end of a term, I’m not super impressed by this what a cops experience with this kind of thing is. Especially when it comes to marginalized communities. Extra especially when I have experience with those communities and took the time to listen to them.

Moving on, that’s the question we have to ask ourselves. It’s not even about forcing - children can be manipulated into things without coercion, because they are children. This can even persist into adulthood - David Epstein famously abused his daughter and she still loved him and refused to testify against him.

They may not see it as wrong even, but erotically dancing in a seedy joint while a bunch of drunk people throw money at you is not a thing children should be doing.

That’s not happening so we’re good.

[Galloism]

Basically, there’s a kid acting in an overtly sexual manner inside a gay club that is so seedy, they don’t permit cell phones. Should we be ok with this?

This is a classic case of begging the question. To reach your conclusion I have to accept several premises in contention. That he is performing in an overtly sexual manner. I don’t accept that conclusion. That a gay bar makes a difference. Would it be okay if the bar didn’t specify? Why? That the bars cell phone policy is because they are seedy. Three examples have been provided to for a rational reason, so I reject that premise as well. With the three premises not agreed on, the conclusion does not follow.

1) Video has been provided, complete with stripping clothes, an innocent pelvic thrust, and repeated back arching with hips forward for pure stretching reasons.
2) Whether it’s gay or not doesn’t matter. Children erotically dancing in bars is not ok.
3) It looks hellaciously seedy from what we can see in the video as well. Exactly the type of place I would expect to bar cell phones.

Having been a police officer, I can tell you in my experience there are basically three kinds of places that confiscate cell phones.

1) High end art galleries
2) Prisons
3) Really really seedy joints

I don’t see any guards or any high end art.

Having been someone who has sat on many curbs because a police officer is searching my car in vane because I’m their experience there are limited reasons I could be doing something or driving my friend home from Berkeley because in a police officers experience there’s a limited reason for a black man to stand next to his dorm luggage at the end of a term, I’m not super impressed by this what a cops experience with this kind of thing is. Especially when it comes to marginalized communities. Extra especially when I have experience with those communities and took the time to listen to them.

I’ve listened plenty. I continue to listen.

But we wouldn’t accept this kind of thing from an 11 year old girl in a “straight” bar, and we shouldn’t accept it here. The gender of the child (or audience) shouldn’t make a difference.

Moving on, that’s the question we have to ask ourselves. It’s not even about forcing - children can be manipulated into things without coercion, because they are children. This can even persist into adulthood - David Epstein famously abused his daughter and she still loved him and refused to testify against him.

They may not see it as wrong even, but erotically dancing in a seedy joint while a bunch of drunk people throw money at you is not a thing children should be doing.

That’s not happening so we’re good.

It’s what the video shows. You can be deliberately blind to it or not. People turn a blind eye to child exploitation all the time, just because they have a good rapport with the abuser or identify with the abusers and want to think the best of them. It’s not deliberate - it’s just a normal human mental bias. And I get that.

Doesn’t mean I have to turn a blind eye to it too.

[Cannot think of a name]

This is a classic case of begging the question. To reach your conclusion I have to accept several premises in contention. That he is performing in an overtly sexual manner. I don’t accept that conclusion. That a gay bar makes a difference. Would it be okay if the bar didn’t specify? Why? That the bars cell phone policy is because they are seedy. Three examples have been provided to for a rational reason, so I reject that premise as well. With the three premises not agreed on, the conclusion does not follow.

1) Video has been provided, complete with stripping clothes,

Removing a smock to reveal the outfit of the singer he was performing as.

an innocent pelvic thrust, and repeated back arching with hips forward for pure stretching reasons.

Snark aside, this is subjective.

2) Whether it’s gay or not doesn’t matter. Children erotically dancing in bars is not ok.

The distinction was made. Ask yourself why.

3) It looks hellaciously seedy from what we can see in the video as well. Exactly the type of place I would expect to bar cell phones.

Your view is portrait mode shot of a stage. It's our turn to press x for doubt.

Having been someone who has sat on many curbs because a police officer is searching my car in vane because I’m their experience there are limited reasons I could be doing something or driving my friend home from Berkeley because in a police officers experience there’s a limited reason for a black man to stand next to his dorm luggage at the end of a term, I’m not super impressed by this what a cops experience with this kind of thing is. Especially when it comes to marginalized communities. Extra especially when I have experience with those communities and took the time to listen to them.

I’ve listened plenty. I continue to listen.

But we wouldn’t accept this kind of thing from an 11 year old girl in a “straight” bar, and we shouldn’t accept it here. The gender of the child (or audience) shouldn’t make a difference.

I led a performance of teenagers in a bar playing a saxophone quartet. I worked on a nationally syndicated show where girls of all ages danced way...way more provocatively than this bouncy little dude. We not only accept it, we celebrate it.

That’s not happening so we’re good.

It’s what the video shows.

It shows a kid taking off a smock and bouncing around.

You can be deliberately blind to it or not.

You can superimpose an interpretation that has more to do with a tradition of Gay Panic than what actually happened or not.

People turn a blind eye to child exploitation all the time, just because they have a good rapport with the abuser or identify with the abusers and want to think the best of them. It’s not deliberate - it’s just a normal human mental bias. And I get that.

Cool, so Drag performers are abusers and sexual deviants. Awesome. Do you watch these performances on Netflix and youtube like one would Locked Up?

Doesn’t mean I have to turn a blind eye to it too.

Still not what's happening.

[Galloism]

1) Video has been provided, complete with stripping clothes,

Removing a smock to reveal the outfit of the singer he was performing as.

“Woooo!”

an innocent pelvic thrust, and repeated back arching with hips forward for pure stretching reasons.

Snark aside, this is subjective.

Everything is subjective, but then again, I notice there’s no denials here.

2) Whether it’s gay or not doesn’t matter. Children erotically dancing in bars is not ok.

The distinction was made. Ask yourself why.

Because it’s what it explicitly was. The same reason I referred to it as a “bar” instead of a “building”.

3) It looks hellaciously seedy from what we can see in the video as well. Exactly the type of place I would expect to bar cell phones.

Your view is portrait mode shot of a stage. It's our turn to press x for doubt.

You can see the smoky room, filled with people giving him money after pushing his hips out.

Looks like a seedy place.

Hell, the logo from their website is like what you’d see at a strip club - but with hairy legs.



https://www.3dollarbillbk.com/

I’ve listened plenty. I continue to listen.

But we wouldn’t accept this kind of thing from an 11 year old girl in a “straight” bar, and we shouldn’t accept it here. The gender of the child (or audience) shouldn’t make a difference.

I led a performance of teenagers in a bar playing a saxophone quartet. I worked on a nationally syndicated show where girls of all ages danced way...way more provocatively than this bouncy little dude. We not only accept it, we celebrate it.

This bar, were they surrounded by a crowd jeering at them and handing them dollar bills while they thrust their hips at them?

As for having a nationally syndicated show where little girls are exploited for the purpose of titillating adults, this sounds like a major problem.

It’s what the video shows.

It shows a kid taking off a smock and bouncing around.

“Woooooo!”

You can be deliberately blind to it or not.

You can superimpose an interpretation that has more to do with a tradition of Gay Panic than what actually happened or not.

This has nothing to do with gay panic. This has to do with, at a minimum, child exploitation.

People turn a blind eye to child exploitation all the time, just because they have a good rapport with the abuser or identify with the abusers and want to think the best of them. It’s not deliberate - it’s just a normal human mental bias. And I get that.

Cool, so Drag performers are abusers and sexual deviants. Awesome. Do you watch these performances on Netflix and youtube like one would Locked Up?

What? This sentence makes no sense.

Doesn’t mean I have to turn a blind eye to it too.

Still not what's happening.

Human bias can be very strong when you identify with the exploiter instead of the exploited.

[Zapato]

I watched the video, and I don't get it? How's that sexualized?

I guess I would have to be from the more puritan parts of the US to understand... Or maybe Iran.

[Cannot think of a name]

Alright, 'wooo' as an argument really has to be where I draw the line. "They woooed"...that's...yeah. Cool.

Enjoy your gay panic. Outrage still denied.