Desmond Napoles or how gender 'liberation' can lead to abuse

[Cannot think of a name]

Perhaps the issue is you don't know what the word 'equate' means.

Perhaps the issue is that your incapable of understanding that recognizing that pedophiles have attempted to weasel their way into the LGBT movement doesn't really mean that you also thinking that gag people are prone to raping kids.

Except, 1. It is. It is 100% a justification to undermine LGBT rights and issues and hold LGBT people responsible for something for which there is no correlation. And 2. Proof? No? After all this time, a little copy and paste, a half second google search that would support your flimsy premise? No? Nothing? Just whining that you're not being understood? Yeah...

You can have one without the other. But of course this is a fairly simple concept so you probably won't understand it.

See, this is your focus. You're still poisoning the well of the LGBT community by associating them with pedophiles. Same dance but with jazz hands. "Oh no, gays may not be pedophiles, but they're in the same group so BEWARE!"

Still hack.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

The thing is... even in the latter case, the meaning of it is social. We interpret it as inappropriate because (not without reason) we associate bars in general, and gay bars in particular, with inappropriate behavior.

Buuuuuuut that's not really a given, although it is commonly true, partially because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of societal expectations.

So?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing for.

[Torrocca]

Is there seriously a second fucking shitshow of a thread on this topic?

Seriously?

[Liriena]

Because ass shaking being seen as inherently sexual and inappropriate is not something divinely or naturally determined and we shouldn't just reflexively repress a boy if he's doing it for innocent fun just because we've internalized through our culture that ass shaking = slutty.

This might come as something of a shock but people do sometimes have a natural sexual attraction to butts, much in the same way people sometimes have a natural sexual attraction to breasts.

But not every person at any given bar, even a gay bar, is naturally attracted to a child's butt.

I mean, pedophiles are real and apparently more numerous that we might be willing to admit, but that doesn't mean that Desmond was somehow doomed to be gawked at by pedophiles when he chose to perform at a bar.

[Galloism]

This sounds a lot like pedophile apologism. A child should not be dancing lewdly for adults, period, regardless of the type of adult. What the fuck, dude?

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

See, I always gender flip things to see if I feel the same way.

How would I take an 11 year old girl dressed provocatively dancing lewdly for a bunch of heterosexual men? Would we assume or even suppose there was no coercion or grooming?

[Liriena]

The thing is... even in the latter case, the meaning of it is social. We interpret it as inappropriate because (not without reason) we associate bars in general, and gay bars in particular, with inappropriate behavior.

Buuuuuuut that's not really a given, although it is commonly true, partially because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of societal expectations.

So?

I'm not really sure what you're arguing for.

Eh, I'm mostly being a pedantic fuck, tbh.

As I said: I support Desmond if he chooses to perform or do drag for pure fun, but performing the way he did for an adult crowd at a bar was a questionable idea.

[Fartsniffage]

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

See, I always gender flip things to see if I feel the same way.

How would I take an 11 year old girl dressed provocatively dancing lewdly for a bunch of heterosexual men? Would we assume or even suppose there was no coercion or grooming?

*An 11 year old girl dressing as a male and dancing in front of a room full of lesbian women.

Or are you assuming that only men are pedophiles Gallo?

[Jack Thomas Lang]

*An 11 year old girl dressing as a male and dancing in front of a room full of lesbian women.

Or are you assuming that only men are pedophiles Gallo?

That's still bad. No matter how you cut it, 11 year olds shouldn't be dressed provocatively and dancing lewdly in front of adults at bars.

[Liriena]

Is there seriously a second fucking shitshow of a thread on this topic?

Seriously?

Anti-LGBT folks are like the worst chefs in Kitchen Nightmares: nothing's even fresh.

[Fartsniffage]

*An 11 year old girl dressing as a male and dancing in front of a room full of lesbian women.

Or are you assuming that only men are pedophiles Gallo?

That's still bad. No matter how you cut it, 11 year olds shouldn't be dressed provocatively and dancing lewdly in front of adults at bars.

Here is one thing I'm curious about. What kind of bar was it? In the UK we have different types, some are just for boozing, some are family bars, some are night clubs.

A family bar is very different to a boozing bar or a nightclub.

[Torrocca]

Is there seriously a second fucking shitshow of a thread on this topic?

Seriously?

Anti-LGBT folks are like the worst chefs in Kitchen Nightmares: nothing's even fresh.

This shit's so fucking rotten that it clawed its way out of a grave and began moaning for brains.

[Galloism]

See, I always gender flip things to see if I feel the same way.

How would I take an 11 year old girl dressed provocatively dancing lewdly for a bunch of heterosexual men? Would we assume or even suppose there was no coercion or grooming?

*An 11 year old girl dressing as a male and dancing in front of a room full of lesbian women.

Or are you assuming that only men are pedophiles Gallo?

No that works too. We can gender flip the audience too.

Don't forget the lewd dancing part.

[Fartsniffage]

*An 11 year old girl dressing as a male and dancing in front of a room full of lesbian women.

Or are you assuming that only men are pedophiles Gallo?

No that works too. We can gender flip the audience too.

Don't forget the lewd dancing part.

I'm not.

Kids do what kids do, often without understanding what they're doing. Kids go to the beach wearing speedos or bikinis and frolic in front of adults but we don't get upset about that.

If the kid enjoys what he does then I'm kinda okay with it. Just as long as he's been taught that shaking his ass on the stage is his performance but anyone asking him to do the same off the stage or touching him off the stage is a bad touch and he needs to find an adult he trusts.

To do otherwise is to shut down so many kids activities it's untrue. Afterall, this kid hasn't been sexually assaulted as far as we know. US gymnastics on the other hand....

[Arayas]

Anti-LGBT folks are like the worst chefs in Kitchen Nightmares: nothing's even fresh.

This shit's so fucking rotten that it clawed its way out of a grave and began moaning for brains.

Quit burying it then.

[Arayas]

No that works too. We can gender flip the audience too.

Don't forget the lewd dancing part.

I'm not.

Kids do what kids do, often without understanding what they're doing. Kids go to the beach wearing speedos or bikinis and frolic in front of adults but we don't get upset about that.

If the kid enjoys what he does then I'm kinda okay with it. Just as long as he's been taught that shaking his ass on the stage is his performance but anyone asking him to do the same off the stage or touching him off the stage is a bad touch and he needs to find an adult he trusts.

To do otherwise is to shut down so many kids activities it's untrue. Afterall, this kid hasn't been sexually assaulted as far as we know. US gymnastics on the other hand....

Kid was literally being sponsored by a fetishwear company.

[Liriena]

This shit's so fucking rotten that it clawed its way out of a grave and began moaning for brains.

Quit burying it then.

This metaphor is going places. I like it.

[Fartsniffage]

I'm not.

Kids do what kids do, often without understanding what they're doing. Kids go to the beach wearing speedos or bikinis and frolic in front of adults but we don't get upset about that.

If the kid enjoys what he does then I'm kinda okay with it. Just as long as he's been taught that shaking his ass on the stage is his performance but anyone asking him to do the same off the stage or touching him off the stage is a bad touch and he needs to find an adult he trusts.

To do otherwise is to shut down so many kids activities it's untrue. Afterall, this kid hasn't been sexually assaulted as far as we know. US gymnastics on the other hand....

Kid was literally being sponsored by a fetishwear company.

Which company?

[Liriena]

I'm not.

Kids do what kids do, often without understanding what they're doing. Kids go to the beach wearing speedos or bikinis and frolic in front of adults but we don't get upset about that.

If the kid enjoys what he does then I'm kinda okay with it. Just as long as he's been taught that shaking his ass on the stage is his performance but anyone asking him to do the same off the stage or touching him off the stage is a bad touch and he needs to find an adult he trusts.

To do otherwise is to shut down so many kids activities it's untrue. Afterall, this kid hasn't been sexually assaulted as far as we know. US gymnastics on the other hand....

Kid was literally being sponsored by a fetishwear company.

should have gotten sponsored by Bad Dragon smh

[Thermodolia]

This shit's so fucking rotten that it clawed its way out of a grave and began moaning for brains.

Quit burying it then.

Dude this shit is over a year old. It was already done to death we don’t need to rehash anything and we can stop beating the dead horse

[Thermodolia]

Kid was literally being sponsored by a fetishwear company.

should have gotten sponsored by Bad Dragon smh

This made me chuckle

[Le Slavador]

If the kid chose to do drag and dance lewdly of his own volition, without being groomed or coerced, then the only issue I see is that those responsible for his safety and public life have done a terrible job of curating the kind of adults he interacts with.

This sounds a lot like pedophile apologism. A child should not be dancing lewdly for adults, period, regardless of the type of adult. What the fuck, dude?

Agreed. Are kids even supposed to be in adult-oriented clubs?!

[Nakena]

Don't forget the lewd dancing part.

In Afghanistan they call it Bacha bazi.

[Beggnig]

ITT: People surprised that decent people won't just sit around and let kids be sexualised and accept it as 'normal'.

[Rostavykhan]

ITT: People surprised that decent people won't just sit around and let kids be sexualised and accept it as 'normal'.

Damnit, you beat me to the punch.

[Galloism]

No that works too. We can gender flip the audience too.

Don't forget the lewd dancing part.

I'm not.

Kids do what kids do, often without understanding what they're doing. Kids go to the beach wearing speedos or bikinis and frolic in front of adults but we don't get upset about that.

If the kid enjoys what he does then I'm kinda okay with it. Just as long as he's been taught that shaking his ass on the stage is his performance but anyone asking him to do the same off the stage or touching him off the stage is a bad touch and he needs to find an adult he trusts.

To do otherwise is to shut down so many kids activities it's untrue. Afterall, this kid hasn't been sexually assaulted as far as we know. US gymnastics on the other hand....

I mean, I don't see what law is being broken, but I am distinctly uncomfortable with it just as I would be a little girl dancing lewdly in front of a bunch of lesbians.

There's something different between frolicking on the beach which some people may find titillating and lewdly shaking your ass on stage with the purpose of titillation. Even if the child doesn't understand, his parents do.