Desmond Napoles or how gender 'liberation' can lead to abuse

[New haven america]

All dance is essentially an athletic performance. It's why the people good at it are so incredibly fit.

What's your opinion on cheerleading?

In principle, cheerleading is fine. In practice, it's inappropriately sexualized.

What if cheerleading became a solely male activity, like it was in the early 20th century?

[Scomagia]

In principle, cheerleading is fine. In practice, it's inappropriately sexualized.

What if cheerleading became a solely male activity, like it was in the early 20th century?

Provided the uniforms weren't designed to be sexually titillating beyond the needs of function, I think it'd be a fine activity.

Other middle and high school sports are also inappropriately sexualised, as well. My wife quit volleyball in high school, for example, because they began requiring the girls to wear uniforms that were inappropriately revealing but conveyed no athletic purpose.That is not something that should happen.

[Fartsniffage]

What if cheerleading became a solely male activity, like it was in the early 20th century?

Provided the uniforms weren't designed to be sexually titillating beyond the needs of function, I think it'd be a fine activity.

High school cheerleading uniforms are sexually titillating?

[US-SSR]

Toddlers in makeup and ball gowns pushed out on a stage to be judged, good. 11-year-old drag performers, bad. Got it.

[Neutraligon]

You think performing sexualized dancing is not athletic in nature and thus requires the least amount of resistance necessary?

What that kid is doing? Not really. He could do it badly and no one would care because sexual arousal is the goal, not artistic or athletic expression. This is an example of embracing tolerance to a moronic degree. You're seriously comparing child abuse to art and sport.

Nope, I never said whether I accept what the kid was doing. I am asking why you differentiate one activity that has a great deal of physical activity that requires freedom of motion from another that also requires a great deal of physical activity and freedom of motion. If this where not a kid, but rather an adult, would you say the same thing about it not being an activity that requires a great deal of freedom of motion, like every other dance?

[New haven america]

Provided the uniforms weren't designed to be sexually titillating beyond the needs of function, I think it'd be a fine activity.

High school cheerleading uniforms are sexually titillating?

Depends on the area. Some are conservative, some are basically pieces of tissue paper held together with shoe laces. (Actually, my 2 high schools were like this, 1 had really conservative uniforms and the other... did not)

[Scomagia]

What that kid is doing? Not really. He could do it badly and no one would care because sexual arousal is the goal, not artistic or athletic expression. This is an example of embracing tolerance to a moronic degree. You're seriously comparing child abuse to art and sport.

Nope, I never said whether I accept what the kid was doing. I am asking why you differentiate one activity that has a great deal of physical activity that requires freedom of motion from another that also requires a great deal of physical activity and freedom of motion. If this where not a kid, but rather an adult, would you say the same thing about it not being an activity that requires a great deal of freedom of motion, like every other dance?

Well, there are plenty of strippers who are mediocre at best athletically but aren't really hurting for tips. But hey, I'll concede the point. To a degree, both require a minimum of athletic ability.

[Scomagia]

Toddlers in makeup and ball gowns pushed out on a stage to be judged, good. 11-year-old drag performers, bad. Got it.

....Who are you talking to? I don't think OP or anyone else has said that.

[Fartsniffage]

High school cheerleading uniforms are sexually titillating?

Depends on the area. Some are conservative, some are basically pieces of tissue paper held together with shoe laces. (Actually, my 2 high schools were like this, 1 had really conservative uniforms and the other... did not)

As long as they're more covered than what they would wear for the beach then I have trouble finding a way to get bothered by it.

[Pope Joan]

In principle, cheerleading is fine. In practice, it's inappropriately sexualized.

What if cheerleading became a solely male activity, like it was in the early 20th century?

George W Bush was a cheerleader.

But unlike this kid, he was not exploited.

What happens when this little darling is no longer young and cute? It will be worse than McCauley Culkin

[Thermodolia]

Hasn’t this been done to death before?

[Liriena]

If the kid chose to do drag and dance lewdly of his own volition, without being groomed or coerced, then the only issue I see is that those responsible for his safety and public life have done a terrible job of curating the kind of adults he interacts with.

This sounds a lot like pedophile apologism. A child should not be dancing lewdly for adults, period, regardless of the type of adult. What the fuck, dude?

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

[Nova Cyberia]

I said that pedophiles have tried to weasel their way into the LGBT movement. I didn't say they were successful, nor did I say gay people are more likely to be pedophiles or anything of the sort.

Which I correctly framed as part of the long, long history to erroneously associate pedophilia with LGBT regardless of there being no correlation.

No, you didn't. You've been fallaciously trying to strawman my argument from the beginning.

And then provided the historical context and how that association exists solely in the minds of people trying to stir up fear and derision towards LGBT.

It is fascinating to see someone so mind-numbingly arrogant that they try and tell others what their views are.

Pathetic.

We have yet to see any evidence for your claims, however.

You don't even seem to understand what my claims are. I could break out the crayons, but I doubt it would help you strawman less, dear.

[Nova Cyberia]

This sounds a lot like pedophile apologism. A child should not be dancing lewdly for adults, period, regardless of the type of adult. What the fuck, dude?

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

[Cannot think of a name]

Which I correctly framed as part of the long, long history to erroneously associate pedophilia with LGBT regardless of there being no correlation.

No, you didn't. You've been fallaciously trying to strawman my argument from the beginning.

And then provided the historical context and how that association exists solely in the minds of people trying to stir up fear and derision towards LGBT.

It is fascinating to see someone so mind-numbingly arrogant that they try and tell others what their views are.

Pathetic.

We have yet to see any evidence for your claims, however.

You don't even seem to understand what my claims are. I could break out the crayons, but I doubt it would help you strawman less, dear.

Because pedophiles have been trying to weasel their way into the LGBT movement for quite some time. Now people read news article about a kid shaking his ass on stage and it seems to primarily be LGBT people and leftists who defend him.

That's why.

No, people have been trying to equate pedophiles with LGBT for quite some time now to the point that people buy into that association without thinking about it.

Perhaps the issue is you don't know what the word 'equate' means.

[Fartsniffage]

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

Kids copy what they see. To stop them doing it we'd have to basically ban music videos.

[Liriena]

No, it's letting children express themselves and have fun apologia. If Desmond genuinely likes doing drag and dancing, without anyone's pressure, manipulation or coercion, I support him. I do not, however, support anyone exploiting him, sexually or otherwise, through his hobbies. If an adult acts inappropriately towards him, that adult won't get any excuses from me.

The lewd dancing is lewd and, yeah, ideally, a child wouldn't do it, but I'd argue that the problem would ultimately lie in whether we see that dancing, however "lewd" it might seem within our worldviews, as an invitation for inappropriate expressions or behavior from adults.

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

Because ass shaking being seen as inherently sexual and inappropriate is not something divinely or naturally determined and we shouldn't just reflexively repress a boy if he's doing it for innocent fun just because we've internalized through our culture that ass shaking = slutty.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Because ass shaking being seen as inherently sexual and inappropriate is not something divinely or naturally determined and we shouldn't just reflexively repress a boy if he's doing it for innocent fun just because we've internalized through our culture that ass shaking = slutty.

I think there's a difference between ass shaking for fun, and ass shaking for a performance in front of adults at bars.

The first might be innocent fun, the second, hardly.

[Nova Cyberia]

No, you didn't. You've been fallaciously trying to strawman my argument from the beginning.


It is fascinating to see someone so mind-numbingly arrogant that they try and tell others what their views are.

Pathetic.


You don't even seem to understand what my claims are. I could break out the crayons, but I doubt it would help you strawman less, dear.

No, people have been trying to equate pedophiles with LGBT for quite some time now to the point that people buy into that association without thinking about it.

Perhaps the issue is you don't know what the word 'equate' means.

Perhaps the issue is that your incapable of understanding that recognizing that pedophiles have attempted to weasel their way into the LGBT movement doesn't really mean that you also thinking that gay people are prone to raping kids.

You can have one without the other. But of course this is a fairly simple concept so you probably won't understand it.

[Liriena]

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

Kids copy what they see. To stop them doing it we'd have to basically ban music videos.

And double entendres in kid's movies.

[Nova Cyberia]

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

Because ass shaking being seen as inherently sexual and inappropriate is not something divinely or naturally determined and we shouldn't just reflexively repress a boy if he's doing it for innocent fun just because we've internalized through our culture that ass shaking = slutty.

This might come as something of a shock but people do sometimes have a natural sexual attraction to butts, much in the same way people sometimes have a natural sexual attraction to breasts.

Next you're gonna tell me that fingering yourself isn't inherently sexual.

[Nova Cyberia]

You're suggesting the kid shaking his ass isn't a problem but the adults getting turned on by it is?

Why not both?

Kids copy what they see. To stop them doing it we'd have to basically ban music videos.

Or parents could just teach their kids not to shake their asses tor adults. But hey, maybe that's just too difficult.

[Liriena]

Because ass shaking being seen as inherently sexual and inappropriate is not something divinely or naturally determined and we shouldn't just reflexively repress a boy if he's doing it for innocent fun just because we've internalized through our culture that ass shaking = slutty.

I think there's a difference between ass shaking for fun, and ass shaking for a performance in front of adults at bars.

The first might be innocent fun, the second, hardly.

The thing is... even in the latter case, the meaning of it is social. We interpret it as inappropriate because (not without reason) we associate bars in general, and gay bars in particular, with inappropriate behavior.

Buuuuuuut that's not really a given, although it is commonly true, partially because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of societal expectations.

[Fartsniffage]

Kids copy what they see. To stop them doing it we'd have to basically ban music videos.

Or parents could just teach their kids not to shake their asses tor adults. But hey, maybe that's just too difficult.

And we're back to whether you want to ban dance recitals for kids?

[Communist Zombie Horde]

It is a problem that these bars exist. There should be police raids finding pedophilic activities.