What would you do if you get an extra $1000 every month?

[Petrolheadia]

We ain't at this stage, and it's debatable whether we will be.

Yeah…not really much of a debate. It’s more of a when then an if.

Except that people would have more disposable income left after prices go down, which means that they would buy more, therefore requiring more designers, engineers, salesmen, admen, delivery men, repairmen...

Of course, even if those issues were addressed you'd still want to ban automation.

They won’t be. That’s the thing. You will never make anything 100% hacker proof without creating a massive state security apparatus that makes the DDR and Chinese blush

So what? Things break down all the time.

That would be £500 here where I live. I would spend half on food and half on fun stuff.

Or invest it. That would mean you'd have £alotmore down the line.

Since rent is based mainly on what the renters can afford, this would really be a subsidy for landlords. I would have to use the increased income to pay my increased rent.

Ya this is realistically what would happen during any UBI system. The Corporations would all raise the prices to match the new income. Everyone would be back where we started

Yeah, right. Everyone will increase prices, because that totally does not decrease demand /s

If what you said is true, why do countries that are a few times poorer don't get prices that are a few times lower?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Save some, donate some.

[Petrolheadia]

$1000 in Pound Sterling (my country’s currency) is £786.60. Just a note.

Well, I would save 40% of that money (£314.64) in my ISA / savings account. I’ll just leave that there to grow and use it later in the future to either pay off debts or for my pension. I’ll use 20% (£157.32) for essentials and reworking my lifestyle (new clothes, supplying whole foods, etc) whilst the other 20% would go to political movements or charities that I like/approve of.

So, pretty standard. But if I were to get £1,000 every month, I would do the same albeit more money going to charity.

Is the other 20% so crazy that you can't tell us?

[Grinning Dragon]

By the mere fact that the aging US infrastructure isn't hardened against EMP. The electrical grid is susceptible to an EMP.

Shit it's susceptible to anything. One person could put millions of people in the dark by just being crafty.

Or by taking that extra 1000 bucks to buy a vehicle pack it with some explosives and drive it into some remote large electrical substation.
Or by infecting the computer systems that monitor with a virus/malware/ransomeware, etc.

[Kowani]

Yeah…not really much of a debate. It’s more of a when then an if.

Except that people would have more disposable income left after prices go down, which means that they would buy more, therefore requiring more designers, engineers,

Replaceable

salesmen,

Replaceable

admen,

Replaceable

delivery men,

Especially Replaceable
[quote="Petrolheadia";p="35739530"] repairmen...
/quote]
Replaceable.

[The Brytish Isles]

$1000 in Pound Sterling (my country’s currency) is £786.60. Just a note.

Well, I would save 40% of that money (£314.64) in my ISA / savings account. I’ll just leave that there to grow and use it later in the future to either pay off debts or for my pension. I’ll use 20% (£157.32) for essentials and reworking my lifestyle (new clothes, supplying whole foods, etc) whilst the other 20% would go to political movements or charities that I like/approve of.

So, pretty standard. But if I were to get £1,000 every month, I would do the same albeit more money going to charity.

Is the other 20% so crazy that you can't tell us?

Well, it’s the same amount. 20% of £786.60 is £157.32. I didn’t see the point in specifying how much the other 20% was in currency.

[Petrolheadia]

Except that people would have more disposable income left after prices go down, which means that they would buy more, therefore requiring more designers, engineers,

Replaceable

salesmen,

Replaceable

admen,

Replaceable

delivery men,

Especially Replaceable

repairmen...
/quote]
Replaceable.

How?

[Thermodolia]

In order for a system to be fully autonomous you need to have a way for the autonomous systems to communicate. That’s a weak point that someone could and will hack.

Not really? I mean, yeah, you need a way for the various component parts to communicate, but it’s not like there’s a giant central computer to hack. You’d have to do things individually.

Hacking doesn’t require a central computer system though. You can hack into things just by getting into the system they use to communicate with.

Hell basically all drones outside of those run by the military are vernable to hacks by novice hackers.

And all trucks are vulnerable to hijacking by novice thieves.

Yet trucks aren’t all communicating together on wifi.

And no electronics today are not relatively protected. You can knock down just about everything with an EMP attack or an attack on the grid

Citation needed.

https://www.wired.com/story/hackers-gai ... r-systems/
http://time.com/3757513/electricity-pow ... -security/
https://www.govtech.com/security/How-Vu ... -Grid.html
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/how-v ... 8zJHyzPvI/
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files ... Sector.pdf
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... bombs.html
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.as ... TdNQi5wZGY
https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/unde ... tic-pulses

[The Blaatschapen]

Convert it to euro.

And then probably save it. Since it's not enough to quit my job over, I still need that. And I can try and get another day off, but I am not sure if any employer will go for that.

I might do a trip to Norway though. It's still missing from my list of places I visited. And it's so expensive.

[Petrolheadia]

Is the other 20% so crazy that you can't tell us?

Well, it’s the same amount. 20% of £786.60 is £157.32. I didn’t see the point in specifying how much the other 20% was in currency.

40% savings, 20% lifestyle, 20% charity. What about the rest?

[CHUCK NORRlS]

Just some clarification:

I found this poster while snooping around. There seems to be several approaches to finding Yang's UBI:

• financial transaction tax
• carbon fee & dividend (not sure if this'll be possible in America)
• societal well-being
• economic growth (presumably as a result of various activities such as investments)
• re-appropriated spending (I assume overlap with pre-existing welfare systems/social security? may also consist of diverted spending from excessive expenditures like defense)
• value-added tax, set at 10% (I think it was explained somewhere how the cost will ultimately not end up with the consumers)

Also, there are several videos explaining how UBI won't cause a huge surge in inflation (e.g. raising price of goods, higher housing costs). For example, JDiculous's video explains why renting costs may not be inflated with a UBI. Perhaps the only thing to worry about is whether UBI has to be indexed with inflation when dealing with wages/salaries.

[Petrolheadia]

Not really? I mean, yeah, you need a way for the various component parts to communicate, but it’s not like there’s a giant central computer to hack. You’d have to do things individually.

Hacking doesn’t require a central computer system though. You can hack into things just by getting into the system they use to communicate with.

And all trucks are vulnerable to hijacking by novice thieves.

Yet trucks aren’t all communicating together on wifi.

Citation needed.

https://www.wired.com/story/hackers-gai ... r-systems/
http://time.com/3757513/electricity-pow ... -security/
https://www.govtech.com/security/How-Vu ... -Grid.html
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/how-v ... 8zJHyzPvI/
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files ... Sector.pdf
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... bombs.html
https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing.as ... TdNQi5wZGY
https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/unde ... tic-pulses

Is it relatively simple? Yeah, but so is walking armed into a bank and demanding money.

Just like we have laws, law enforcement, guards, etc. to keep most people from taking money that isn't theirs, we will work safeguards for that out.

[Thermodolia]

Except that people would have more disposable income left after prices go down, which means that they would buy more, therefore requiring more designers, engineers,

Replaceable

salesmen,

Replaceable

admen,

Replaceable

delivery men,

Especially Replaceable

repairmen...
/quote]
Replaceable.

You do realize that by replacing designers, engineers, and repairmen you’ve effectively reduced the need for humanity to exist

[Kowani]

Replaceable Replaceable
Replaceable
Especially Replaceable

Replaceable.

How?[/quote]
A robot can do all of those jobs, and cheaper than a person can. Heck, the only ones that we’d still need people for today would be the repairmen for really complex jobs, ‘cause delicate servos are expensive, and perhaps the admen/salesmen while we get past the uncanny valley.

[Thermodolia]

Shit it's susceptible to anything. One person could put millions of people in the dark by just being crafty.

Or by taking that extra 1000 bucks to buy a vehicle pack it with some explosives and drive it into some remote large electrical substation.
Or by infecting the computer systems that monitor with a virus/malware/ransomeware, etc.

Hell Atlanta and Baltimore both got taken down by ransomeware

[Gurori]

It's slightly less when converted to my country's currency but regardless, I'd just save it. Regardless of what I do with it, I see this as an absolute win.

[The Brytish Isles]

Well, it’s the same amount. 20% of £786.60 is £157.32. I didn’t see the point in specifying how much the other 20% was in currency.

40% savings, 20% lifestyle, 20% charity. What about the rest?

*Face palm* I need another cup of tea. Pardon my mistake, good ser.

I’d use that other 20% for general purposes, such as leisure or education materials. Most likely the latter.

[Petrolheadia]

How?

A robot can do all of those jobs, and cheaper than a person can. Heck, the only ones that we’d still need people for today would be the repairmen for really complex jobs, ‘cause delicate servos are expensive, and perhaps the admen/salesmen while we get past the uncanny valley.[/quote]
How can a robot do all that? Any source on that?

[Thermodolia]

How?

A robot can do all of those jobs, and cheaper than a person can. Heck, the only ones that we’d still need people for today would be the repairmen for really complex jobs, ‘cause delicate servos are expensive, and perhaps the admen/salesmen while we get past the uncanny valley.

And at that point why should humans exist if robots are designing, manufacturing, engineering, and repairing themselves?

[Sasebo Naval District]

Ignoring the fact of inflation and the fact the money would become useless, save up to go diving to the wreck of the IJN Nagato, the world's most chad warship to ever exist.

[Kowani]

A robot can do all of those jobs, and cheaper than a person can. Heck, the only ones that we’d still need people for today would be the repairmen for really complex jobs, ‘cause delicate servos are expensive, and perhaps the admen/salesmen while we get past the uncanny valley.

And at that point why should humans exist if robots are designing, manufacturing, engineering, and repairing themselves?

Replaceable Replaceable
Replaceable
Especially Replaceable

You do realize that by replacing designers, engineers, and repairmen you’ve effectively reduced the need for humanity to exist

We have lives beyond work, no?

[CHUCK NORRlS]

Books, lotsa books. Also donations to groups I wish to support.

Yeah I was hoping to donate more to other groups (for me, probably local charities) once I'm done investing for myself.

$1000 in Pound Sterling (my country’s currency) is £786.60. Just a note.

Well, I would save 40% of that money (£314.64) in my ISA / savings account. I’ll just leave that there to grow and use it later in the future to either pay off debts or for my pension. I’ll use 20% (£157.32) for essentials and reworking my lifestyle (new clothes, supplying whole foods, etc) whilst the other 20% would go to political movements or charities that I like/approve of.

So, pretty standard. But if I were to get £1,000 every month, I would do the same albeit more money going to charity.

Interesting. My own focus is on paying any debts off and making a bit more investments for the near future.

Convert it to euro.

And then probably save it. Since it's not enough to quit my job over, I still need that. And I can try and get another day off, but I am not sure if any employer will go for that.

I might do a trip to Norway though. It's still missing from my list of places I visited. And it's so expensive.

Maybe I'd get a vacation of my own with enough savings too. I doubt it'll be too fancy though.

[Thermodolia]

Ignoring the fact of inflation and the fact the money would become useless, save up to go diving to the wreck of the IJN Nagato, the world's most chad warship to ever exist.

Iowa and Yamato are better

[Ifreann]

A robot can do all of those jobs, and cheaper than a person can. Heck, the only ones that we’d still need people for today would be the repairmen for really complex jobs, ‘cause delicate servos are expensive, and perhaps the admen/salesmen while we get past the uncanny valley.

And at that point why should humans exist if robots are designing, manufacturing, engineering, and repairing themselves?

Why should humans exist now?

Do we exist only to make ourselves busy for a few decades?

[Thermodolia]

And at that point why should humans exist if robots are designing, manufacturing, engineering, and repairing themselves?

You do realize that by replacing designers, engineers, and repairmen you’ve effectively reduced the need for humanity to exist

We have lives beyond work, no?

I don’t think you understand what I’m getting at here. If robots can do everything there isn’t a reason for humanity to exist outside of nature preserves