NationStates

So the old discussion was locked due to “insufficient op” fair enough, allow me to rephrase. I have been active on the F7 part of the forum for a couple weeks now and have noticed that a good number of nations get angry at me when I use their ns stats to make assessments of their nations. This thread just exists to discuss the merit of doing so and the merit of ns stats in general.
Is that sufficient?

General rule of thumb is to ask if people use FB or NS stats if they dont already state which one they use. If they have a preference and if they let that be known and you dint listen they're bound to get a little annoyed, yeah.

And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

Move the thread to gameplay forum. That be the approperiate subcategory.

Don’t make too much out of it. F7 is for games. If these nations get too worked up, just jump to the next. Don’t take it too seriously, even if some do. It’s a game after all.

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

I mean....yeah, if someone put alot of work in building their nation and writing fact books for it and you continually refuse to acknowledge them they're probably going to get fed up after awhile. If a person uses NS stats, great. If a person uses facebooks, great. Depends on the person.

NS stats dont have to match fsctbooks thats.....kind of the whole point of them.

Thank you

Highever wrote:

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

I mean....yeah, if someone put alot of work in building their nation and writing fact books for it and you continually refuse to acknowledge them they're probably going to get fed up after awhile. If a person uses NS stats, great. If a person uses facebooks, great. Depends on the person.

NS stats dont have to match fsctbooks thats.....kind of the whole point of them.

I don’t always expect an exact match but a dictatorship claiming to be a democracy in its factbook isn’t gonna fly with me

Catsfern wrote:

Highever wrote:I mean....yeah, if someone put alot of work in building their nation and writing fact books for it and you continually refuse to acknowledge them they're probably going to get fed up after awhile. If a person uses NS stats, great. If a person uses facebooks, great. Depends on the person.

NS stats dont have to match fsctbooks thats.....kind of the whole point of them.

I don’t always expect an exact match but a dictatorship claiming to be a democracy in its factbook isn’t gonna fly with me

Alot of people separate gameplay and RP. Issues are game play, fact books are RP. Hell half the time they just stop addressing issues all together at some point and focus onfact books, so of course they won't match up. And they dont have to, they have no relation to one another.

You're free to do what you want but dont act surprised that people are getting mad that you're choosing to ignore their wishes altogether.

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

See, that only really works if every nation is entirely human, roughly modern both technologically and culturally, and exists on a single earth-like planet with a fairly narrow and recognisable range of political ideologies and systems and a plethora of groups and organisations that directly parallel real-world entities. Really, I'd say a minority of nations tick every single one of those boxes. That's just the limitations of issues - they're constructed around a reasonable average, but they can't detect and account for abstract variance in nations, and consequently a lot of them will be wholly inapplicable to a lot of nations. To then insist on using the results of those inapplicable issues despite being explicitly asked by the nations in question to instead use the factbooks that they have actually put a lot of effort into is frankly disrespectful.

Kragholm Free States wrote:

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

See, that only really works if every nation is entirely human, roughly modern both technologically and culturally, and exists on a single earth-like planet with a fairly narrow and recognisable range of political ideologies and systems and a plethora of groups and organisations that directly parallel real-world entities. Really, I'd say a minority of nations tick every single one of those boxes. That's just the limitations of issues - they're constructed around a reasonable average, but they can't detect and account for abstract variance in nations, and consequently a lot of them will be wholly inapplicable to a lot of nations. To then insist on using the results of those inapplicable issues despite being explicitly asked by the nations in question to instead use the factbooks that they have actually put a lot of effort into is frankly disrespectful.

That's a big one too. Not to mention that even if a nation is relatively realistic and take place in a modern earth type setting, issues usually are exaggerated and lean towards satire rather than realism or seriousness.

Kragholm Free States wrote:

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

See, that only really works if every nation is entirely human, roughly modern both technologically and culturally, and exists on a single earth-like planet with a fairly narrow and recognisable range of political ideologies and systems and a plethora of groups and organisations that directly parallel real-world entities. Really, I'd say a minority of nations tick every single one of those boxes. That's just the limitations of issues - they're constructed around a reasonable average, but they can't detect and account for abstract variance in nations, and consequently a lot of them will be wholly inapplicable to a lot of nations. To then insist on using the results of those inapplicable issues despite being explicitly asked by the nations in question to instead use the factbooks that they have actually put a lot of effort into is frankly disrespectful.

I’ve seen a lot of extra species nations that have matching stats what most of them do is in a factbook just specify what portion of their population stat is that additional species.

Also a lot of futuristic nations exist along with past alternative history nations all with well matching stats

Catsfern wrote:

Kragholm Free States wrote:
See, that only really works if every nation is entirely human, roughly modern both technologically and culturally, and exists on a single earth-like planet with a fairly narrow and recognisable range of political ideologies and systems and a plethora of groups and organisations that directly parallel real-world entities. Really, I'd say a minority of nations tick every single one of those boxes. That's just the limitations of issues - they're constructed around a reasonable average, but they can't detect and account for abstract variance in nations, and consequently a lot of them will be wholly inapplicable to a lot of nations. To then insist on using the results of those inapplicable issues despite being explicitly asked by the nations in question to instead use the factbooks that they have actually put a lot of effort into is frankly disrespectful.

I’ve seen a lot of extra species nations that have matching stats what most of them do is in a factbook just specify what portion of their population stat is that additional species.

I dont know why you think that the results of issues need to match fsctbooks. Its pretty much impossible to tailor your nation how you want it to be through random issues. I would dare say it's just about impossible.

If you read what I said above then you know that I don’t always expect an exact match but if it’s at least close that’s what I expect; I only refuse factbook information if there’s a glaring discrepancy between stats and factbook

Catsfern wrote:If you read what I said above then you know that I don’t always expect an exact match but if it’s at least close that’s what I expect; I only refuse factbook information if there’s a glaring discrepancy between stats and factbook

There's a glaring discrepancy between my factbook population of 56.4 million and my stat population of 4.573 billion. I wonder, how would you go about cramming 4.573 billion people onto Svalbard? Or would you suggest I just make my nation cover half the planet to make my population fit?

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Don’t make too much out of it. F7 is for games. If these nations get too worked up, just jump to the next. Don’t take it too seriously, even if some do. It’s a game after all.

I will admit that sometimes, I do take it a little too seriously on very rare occasions. When that happens, I will just take a breather and move on to the next thread.

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

Problem begins when you are ignoring the nation's wishes and hamming the NS Stats on people that don't want them.

It's a F7 game, sure, and you can move on if you are not satisfied. With that said, it is not simply because of the fact that you ignored the factbooks, or did something that might sound trivial to an outsider. The thing is, there are factbooks and world development that has been done quite impressively well, and they have taken the time to write it down during their free time, after all.

You have to realise that people don't act and think the way you do, and they are not inherently wrong for that. Some nations (like me) uses NS Stats religiously and I love my Top 1% badges, but when I look at other nations, unless stated otherwise, I will always look at their factbooks and compliment on how well and how far they have written. It's basic self-respect, and there is no wrong or right way to play the game.

It's not wrong to use NS Stats all the time. It's not wrong to use factbooks all the time. It's only right that you respect each player and fulfill their wishes if they don't use the stats, or otherwise.

In short, some nations use NS Stats, some don't. It's on you to respect them, not for you to force it on them the way you want it to.

Catsfern wrote:If you read what I said above then you know that I don’t always expect an exact match but if it’s at least close that’s what I expect; I only refuse factbook information if there’s a glaring discrepancy between stats and factbook

But the fact you expect them to match at all in some capacity you're going to find is not a common sentiment. RP only works when the players respect one anothers ideas, and if you're not going to do that and try and force people to follow your personal standards or otherwise ignore and disrespect them then I'm sorry to say you're going to find that yeah, a good amount of people are going to be less than happy or eager to engage with you. Not everyone has your strict standards of melding gameplay and RP. In fact....I would say very few do.

You're free to do as you wish once again, but if you want people to stop being a tad upset at you, you may want to ease back on the forcing them to adhere to your personal idea of FB vs NS stats thing.

1. Wrong forum
2. You're basically shocked that you are using stats that people do not use for the sake of RP. This is like complaining that people use foam spears instead of foam swords. Like, what if their nation is some sort of futuristic space empire with a different species? Or what if they take place in 4000 BCE? Or what if they are some sort of tiny city-state with only 2.2 Million people instead of the 5.5 billion people NS has given them? You sound kinda silly right now.

Valentine Z wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Don’t make too much out of it. F7 is for games. If these nations get too worked up, just jump to the next. Don’t take it too seriously, even if some do. It’s a game after all.

I will admit that sometimes, I do take it a little too seriously on very rare occasions. When that happens, I will just take a breather and move on to the next thread.

Catsfern wrote:And I get annoyed when a nation thinks it’s a hot shot because it wrote a cool factbook but doesn’t have the stats to back it up there are some genuinely really good factbooks out there and a lot of nations with the stats to match but there are also a good fee that don’t.

Problem begins when you are ignoring the nation's wishes and hamming the NS Stats on people that don't want them.

It's a F7 game, sure, and you can move on if you are not satisfied. With that said, it is not simply because of the fact that you ignored the factbooks, or did something that might sound trivial to an outsider. The thing is, there are factbooks and world development that has been done quite impressively well, and they have taken the time to write it down during their free time, after all.

You have to realise that people don't act and think the way you do, and they are not inherently wrong for that. Some nations (like me) uses NS Stats religiously and I love my Top 1% badges, but when I look at other nations, unless stated otherwise, I will always look at their factbooks and compliment on how well and how far they have written. It's basic self-respect, and there is no wrong or right way to play the game.

It's not wrong to use NS Stats all the time. It's not wrong to use factbooks all the time. It's only right that you respect each player and fulfill their wishes if they don't use the stats, or otherwise.

In short, some nations use NS Stats, some don't. It's on you to respect them, not for you to force it on them the way you want it to.

It’s not that I don’t understand your take. It’s just that this, with development and all, is, in the end, a game. Getting too worked up about it is, in the end, too much expenditure of energy. Some players will consider your effort, some won’t. Some will demand X, others Y. Exhibit A) look at the OP of this thread and his stance.

Don’t forget you’re dealing with a game in F7. Because that’s what F7 is for. Games and banter. Getting all worked up there is really non-sensical.

If you were talking about the RP aspects of NS, however, I can’t comment.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:It’s not that I don’t understand your take. It’s just that this, with development and all, is, in the end, a game. Getting too worked up about it is, in the end, too much expenditure of energy. Some players will consider your effort, some won’t. Some will demand X, others Y. Exhibit A) look at the OP of this thread and his stance.

Don’t forget you’re dealing with a game in F7. Because that’s what F7 is for. Games and banter. Getting all worked up there is really non-sensical.

If you were talking about the RP aspects of NS, however, I can’t comment.

I understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day, it's just RP, so... I guess stick with people that appreciate your efforts?

Anyway, hope you have a great day ahead, and thanks for chiming in! ^^

Yeah, I am trying to chill out more. Not that I go ballistics with every bad post, but you know, some days are worse than other.

@Hammer: You know that's not true. Not a good comparison with crack. If anything, catnip would make more sense.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Valentine Z wrote:
I will admit that sometimes, I do take it a little too seriously on very rare occasions. When that happens, I will just take a breather and move on to the next thread.


Problem begins when you are ignoring the nation's wishes and hamming the NS Stats on people that don't want them.

It's a F7 game, sure, and you can move on if you are not satisfied. With that said, it is not simply because of the fact that you ignored the factbooks, or did something that might sound trivial to an outsider. The thing is, there are factbooks and world development that has been done quite impressively well, and they have taken the time to write it down during their free time, after all.

You have to realise that people don't act and think the way you do, and they are not inherently wrong for that. Some nations (like me) uses NS Stats religiously and I love my Top 1% badges, but when I look at other nations, unless stated otherwise, I will always look at their factbooks and compliment on how well and how far they have written. It's basic self-respect, and there is no wrong or right way to play the game.

It's not wrong to use NS Stats all the time. It's not wrong to use factbooks all the time. It's only right that you respect each player and fulfill their wishes if they don't use the stats, or otherwise.

In short, some nations use NS Stats, some don't. It's on you to respect them, not for you to force it on them the way you want it to.

It’s not that I don’t understand your take. It’s just that this, with development and all, is, in the end, a game. Getting too worked up about it is, in the end, too much expenditure of energy. Some players will consider your effort, some won’t. Some will demand X, others Y. Exhibit A) look at the OP of this thread and his stance.

Don’t forget you’re dealing with a game in F7. Because that’s what F7 is for. Games and banter. Getting all worked up there is really non-sensical.

If you were talking about the RP aspects of NS, however, I can’t comment.

You don't understand, Val is literally a crack addict for Forum 7 RPs.

This is like watering down crack for him.

Hammer Britannia wrote:

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It’s not that I don’t understand your take. It’s just that this, with development and all, is, in the end, a game. Getting too worked up about it is, in the end, too much expenditure of energy. Some players will consider your effort, some won’t. Some will demand X, others Y. Exhibit A) look at the OP of this thread and his stance.

Don’t forget you’re dealing with a game in F7. Because that’s what F7 is for. Games and banter. Getting all worked up there is really non-sensical.

If you were talking about the RP aspects of NS, however, I can’t comment.

You don't understand, Val is literally a crack addict for Forum 7 RPs.

This is like watering down crack for him.

Poor Val. Will wilt!

The main problem is that nations vary so massively and oftentimes do not fit within the confines addressed by issues. For example, if I decided to make this an RP nation, how would that work? It is a relatively small fiefdom that takes place in a high medeival fantasy setting. How would that work with NS Stats?

Highever wrote:The main problem is that nations vary so massively and oftentimes do not fit within the confines addressed by issues. For example, if I decided to make this an RP nation, how would that work? It is a relatively small fiefdom that takes place in a high medeival fantasy setting. How would that work with NS Stats?

Imagine mine. A nation of cats.

There’s a reason why I haven’t RPed in over a decade.

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:

Highever wrote:The main problem is that nations vary so massively and oftentimes do not fit within the confines addressed by issues. For example, if I decided to make this an RP nation, how would that work? It is a relatively small fiefdom that takes place in a high medeival fantasy setting. How would that work with NS Stats?

Imagine mine. A nation of cats.

There’s a reason why I haven’t RPed in over a decade.

You need to make a comeback as a nation of cats.

Also nice avatar. Reminds me of that animated episode where Mr. Bean puts a cat on his head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJYOLm7diGU