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What would God have to do to convince YOU of His existence?

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Mzeusia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mzeusia » Sat May 25, 2019 7:13 am

A deity would have to make a live announcement to everyone in the world, saying that it exists.
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New Legland
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Postby New Legland » Sat May 25, 2019 7:15 am

Highever wrote:
Country of CityTowne wrote:
Hit the nail on the head with another nail that you hit on the head with a hammer.

And as I said those that beielve have all the proof they need.

It doesn't matter if they have all the proof they need. What matters is how valid that proof is. Flat earthers have all the proof they need, yet they have none at all.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat May 25, 2019 7:17 am

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Mzeusia
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Postby Mzeusia » Sat May 25, 2019 7:19 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Win a televised dance-off against Satan, all the Pagan gods, and Sandra from Accounts.

Ha, good luck trying to win against Tlaltecuhtli
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Pro: volone is an Italian cheese made from cow's milk.
Anti: gua is one of the 2 major islands that make up the Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda. I wonder what the other island is?

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DACOROMANIA
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Postby DACOROMANIA » Sat May 25, 2019 7:20 am

God do not need to prove His own existence. It's up to those who want to know Him.
He gave just 10 Commandments to Moses on Moral Code of Conduct, these being accomplished easily through a Love commandment. Respect these through heart and you'll find God and His peace. Love/compassion is the key.

Kill, spoil, rape, steal, dirty porn and so on and you'll never find God.
He allowed the nations/tribes to defend themselves in was (even if by killing) but never to kill others by lust. Even holy wars or genocides are not of His will.

The Ancient Ones knew that only one God exists (who had created the world/universe) and a powerful entity being jealous called himself a god and turned against everything that was God. Many peoples seen that as duality of gods (such as often humans misunderstand).

Humans are evil in hearts since their youth. Humans are a fallen race and because of that it's a separation between God and humans. It's up only to humans to re-connect with God. But often humans fall to the opposite way. Sins are the cookies to the dark side.

Try to test God (by commanding/ordering) and He's never revealing to you by that way. Many tried so.

When will you acknowledge that God exists? It may be simple to know but it may be too late for you at that time (if you don't wash from your sins).

Unofficial theory:
God's existence will be acknowledged finally at the end of the Great War at the Armageddon Valley when the world is going to cease to exist, but after the reign of the Evil Emperor over the whole world, someone who'll have psychic powers so great that he could kill anyone by using only his mind. That will prove him to be worshiped as a god despite he's not. When everyone on earth denied God's existence and morals (or His laws). At the end of the Third World War every states or powers on earth will be so weaken that no one will be able to resist against the coming of the Evil Emperor who will take the Temple of Jerusalem as his throne. In the WW3 billions of people would die and the survivors will be under the control of the new religion.
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I'm so alone on Earth and I see how the world may fall into chaos. All looks irrational and immoral. It's a pain to not be able to do anything and to be surrounded by barbarians.

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The Children of Time
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Children of Time » Sat May 25, 2019 7:20 am

God doesn't need to do anything to prove his existence. The science of Emergence has already proven that it is impossible for God not to exist. The Universe is just too complex.
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New Legland
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Postby New Legland » Sat May 25, 2019 7:35 am

The Children of Time wrote:God doesn't need to do anything to prove his existence. The science of Emergence has already proven that it is impossible for God not to exist. The Universe is just too complex.

Unless you can provide some sources, I fail to see how the universe's perceived complexity from a subjective point of view proves any god.

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New Legland
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Postby New Legland » Sat May 25, 2019 7:37 am

DACOROMANIA wrote:God do not need to prove His own existence. It's up to those who want to know Him.
He gave just 10 Commandments to Moses on Moral Code of Conduct, these being accomplished easily through a Love commandment. Respect these through heart and you'll find God and His peace. Love/compassion is the key.

Kill, spoil, rape, steal, dirty porn and so on and you'll never find God.
He allowed the nations/tribes to defend themselves in was (even if by killing) but never to kill others by lust. Even holy wars or genocides are not of His will.

The Ancient Ones knew that only one God exists (who had created the world/universe) and a powerful entity being jealous called himself a god and turned against everything that was God. Many peoples seen that as duality of gods (such as often humans misunderstand).

Humans are evil in hearts since their youth. Humans are a fallen race and because of that it's a separation between God and humans. It's up only to humans to re-connect with God. But often humans fall to the opposite way. Sins are the cookies to the dark side.

Try to test God (by commanding/ordering) and He's never revealing to you by that way. Many tried so.

When will you acknowledge that God exists? It may be simple to know but it may be too late for you at that time (if you don't wash from your sins).

Unofficial theory:
God's existence will be acknowledged finally at the end of the Great War at the Armageddon Valley when the world is going to cease to exist, but after the reign of the Evil Emperor over the whole world, someone who'll have psychic powers so great that he could kill anyone by using only his mind. That will prove him to be worshiped as a god despite he's not. When everyone on earth denied God's existence and morals (or His laws). At the end of the Third World War every states or powers on earth will be so weaken that no one will be able to resist against the coming of the Evil Emperor who will take the Temple of Jerusalem as his throne. In the WW3 billions of people would die and the survivors will be under the control of the new religion.

Okay? We're not basing this off of what he would do. This is a simple hypothetical.

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DACOROMANIA
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Postby DACOROMANIA » Sat May 25, 2019 7:45 am

Mzeusia wrote:A deity would have to make a live announcement to everyone in the world, saying that it exists.

Which deity do you refer?

Kernen wrote:Commit suicide?

Whether god exists or not is ultimately irrelevant to me. I wouldn't worship if he was proved as real any more than the current state of affairs.

By suicide you reject the Resurrection / Salvation of God and the Life itself definitely. Suicide is a trap of a eternal death.
Brightlake wrote:Personally the god or gods are a border of understanding of people in the specific time and condition. I didn't need to be convinced because there are nothing to be convinced. May be in the next 50, 100, 200, or so years the definition of god itself already change according how deep the understanding of the people on the given time.

Humans and others (aka "aliens" if exist) can ascend by a distant future knowledge to a higher form of life and understanding as a first step on becoming alike those mythological gods but they never can be gods, otherwise they have a worse view of themselves. Even so no state or being on earth can ever be invincible.
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The New California Republic wrote:Yes. Everyone needs to see you suck before they believe you.

;)

Exactly. No one believe that I suck if they didn't see it for themselves :P

Interesting. By doing that it's presumed that they'll be the victims. It's useless to test if they can die from that.
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Ifreann wrote:I could be convinced that an entity possessed "supernatural" powers by seeing it do verifiably impossible things. I don't think that anything could convince me that that entity is the specific supreme deity of some religion, nor that it created the universe, because I can't think of any evidence that could possibly support such a claim.

Yes.This.

Antichrist may do that someday. Give humans some cookies and they'll follow. Surely he can easily convince millions of people in short time. Ahriman is great.
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I wish to save human race and to build a new nation-state, with ideals like human rights, peace and prosperity for all despite of any difference, avoiding the tyranny and preserving the liberty. To grow, to aid and save each other. Also going interstellar. Even if abandoned by family and nobody cares, I wish to do something important in life before to die, something that may really count.
I'm so alone on Earth and I see how the world may fall into chaos. All looks irrational and immoral. It's a pain to not be able to do anything and to be surrounded by barbarians.

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Darussalam
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Postby Darussalam » Sat May 25, 2019 7:50 am

My beliefs are wired in my brain. God could simply rewire them without much external evidence and I'd have no choice other than believing Him. I think this happens on occasion among epileptic patients.
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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Sat May 25, 2019 7:51 am

DACOROMANIA wrote:
Kernen wrote:Commit suicide?

Whether god exists or not is ultimately irrelevant to me. I wouldn't worship if he was proved as real any more than the current state of affairs.

By suicide you reject the Resurrection / Salvation of God and the Life itself definitely. Suicide is a trap of a eternal death.


I think you missed the point of my post. If god was real, and was going to do something to convince me of existence, I would want god to end his/her own existence. You cannot destroy what never existed. Its foolproof. And it has the benefit of deicide.

I do reject the resurrection and salvation of your god. I do not believe in life after death. Even if your god appeared in front of me right this instant and convinced me, I would still reject your god's offer of salvation.
Last edited by Kernen on Sat May 25, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mzeusia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mzeusia » Sat May 25, 2019 7:51 am

DACOROMANIA wrote:
Mzeusia wrote:A deity would have to make a live announcement to everyone in the world, saying that it exists.

Which deity do you refer?

It doesn't matter.
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Pro: volone is an Italian cheese made from cow's milk.
Anti: gua is one of the 2 major islands that make up the Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda. I wonder what the other island is?

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat May 25, 2019 8:19 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:God knows.

Cop out

No it's a perfectly reasonable point. An all-knowing God would know. And and all-powerful god would have the ability to fulfill whatever requirements someone might have.

Nobody lacks belief in a God save that God wants them to. Otherwise it knows exactly how it could remedy that.

Alternatively: it may not exist.
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The Children of Time
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Children of Time » Sat May 25, 2019 8:51 am

New Legland wrote:
The Children of Time wrote:God doesn't need to do anything to prove his existence. The science of Emergence has already proven that it is impossible for God not to exist. The Universe is just too complex.

Unless you can provide some sources, I fail to see how the universe's perceived complexity from a subjective point of view proves any god.


That is because you don't know what Emergence is. Look it up. I'm not going to do it for you.
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New Legland
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Postby New Legland » Sat May 25, 2019 8:57 am

The Children of Time wrote:
New Legland wrote:Unless you can provide some sources, I fail to see how the universe's perceived complexity from a subjective point of view proves any god.


That is because you don't know what Emergence is. Look it up. I'm not going to do it for you.

I know what emergence is (the combination of simple things creating something more complex than the sum of their parts, i.e. multicellular life). That doesn't prove any god, let alone yours.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 25, 2019 9:05 am

Anglomir wrote:
Galloism wrote:How about if he is able and willing, but there’s a higher priority?

An omnipotent being does not have to prioritise. Check your definitions - if he is omnipotent, and wants it done, it is done. There is no priority list, that would imply that it takes time to work on tasks - which defies the principle of omnipotence.

I don't think you understand priority.

Let's suppose I have a high priority of getting you to freely understand the concept of priority as I am using it. But I also have a priority of not talking to you about it because it's a silly thing. Now, even if I was omnipotent, if I respect your free will also as a high priority, I'll need to talk to you about it to explain the concept of priority, even though I don't want to talk to you about it, because I have a higher priority to help you to accept it of your own free will.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 25, 2019 9:05 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Win a televised dance-off against Satan, all the Pagan gods, and Sandra from Accounts.

Sandra from Accounting is a tough one to beat.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Twilight Imperium
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Postby Twilight Imperium » Sat May 25, 2019 9:31 am

Korhal IVV wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Not really no.

Tarsonis wrote:
The epicurean riddle fails because it attempts to construct an extremely diametric paradigm of Good and Evil. This only works within Epicurius's moral framework that good is what ever is pleasing, and evil is whatever is displeasing. It doesn't account for a difference between natural evil and moral evil. ( For instance, a hurricane blowing over a city. This is a calamity, but it's not a moral event. It's not morally good or morally bad, it just is.) It also doesn't fit within a Christian moral framework which makes no correlation between suffering and evil, if anything suffering leads to good in the Christian moral framework.

This where the ultimate failing comes in, that if God is able to prevent "evil" he isn't benevolent. The problem of this is that it 1. only works again if you subscribe to epicurean moral framework, and 2. it in no way includes higher order reason and goals, it leaves no room for complexity. There might actually be a benevolent reason that God doesn't act, that the persistence of evil leads to a higher better good.

And of course, it completely ignores the sanctity of free will.


Scroll down.


That bit of apologism really misses the point, since it works for any "evil" you'd care to name. Also, if you believe that God created the universe, there's no difference between moral and natural evils. Every "natural evil" is there because of God, that He saw fit to put into the world, and that He has not seen fit to remove. That includes wars, hurricanes, cancer, those wasps that burrow into your brain and lay eggs, and other assorted nasty things.

It's theoretically possible that the existence of brain wasps serves a better good, but most of us are still at "what the fuck God"?

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Deutschess Kaiserreich
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Ex-Nation

Postby Deutschess Kaiserreich » Sat May 25, 2019 9:33 am

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Twilight Imperium
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Postby Twilight Imperium » Sat May 25, 2019 9:36 am

Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:Re-conquer humanities lost worlds and assure mankind's rightful domination of the galaxy and beyond!


You. I like you.

If God showed up to lead humanity in glorious conquest of the universe, I'd h*ckin be on board for that!

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat May 25, 2019 10:13 am

I suppose that repetitive breaking of the laws of physics, demonstrating his omnipotence would be a good start.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat May 25, 2019 10:26 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Presumably an omnipotent God would know exactly what it would have to do to prove itself indisputably to absolutely everyone.

Well considering that everyone has a different answer, there is no one size fits all solution

Then it is not omnipotent.
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North German Realm
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Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sat May 25, 2019 10:29 am

I'm an ardent opposer to the concept of monotheism, but to be perfectly honest, god would have no possibility of proving its existence to anyone who didn't already believe in it. Most "miracles" can be handwaved away, and the type of shit required as "proof" for a claim such as "I am the creator of the universe, the alpha and the omega, all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, all-benevolent, just, etc. etc." would generally require shit that humans by our very nature -theoretically- can't comprehend.
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Alterld Sha
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On what would convince

Postby Alterld Sha » Sat May 25, 2019 11:26 am

Probably there is nothing anyone can do to convince of the existence because only a logical argument devoid of all action or evidence gathered through the senses can convince of the truth or falsehood of anything.

If I were made to dominate over all, I could not believe in the existence of a higher dominance. If I were made to be dominated by a more dominant dominance, that would not be evidence of supreme dominance. Nor is supreme dominance something that can be seen to my satisfaction, because to do so would require having complete knowledge of every dominance, which is omniscience. Is omniscience possible if omnipotence, a requirement for supreme dominance, also exists? How can one know everything, including the future, and yet also have the freedom to decide what to do in the future as though it does not exist?

I see that a prediction is made and that the prediction comes true. This happens for the weather forecast. Sometimes predictions are false. We can select the true predictions and attribute them to a superior knowledge and reject the false predictions as not issuing from that superior knowledge.

I have no memory of before I was born, or at least I have no evidence for it. Life gets worse until the end, not better. It is reasonable to suppose that life can only become more difficult because I cannot choose the conditions of its beginning and continuance because I am not supremely dominant. If life continues after death of a manner, it is reasonable that this condition of not having what one wants the way one wants it will continue after the death in life just the way it continues now in life. Therefore, there can only be hell.

I would rather not have to eat or sleep or produce waste or require anything. This is a hellish existence. What has a beginning is susceptible to end.

The soul is the whole of a person. Scientists ask where it is. If a surgeon chops away at the body, removing pieces until there is no person left, a doctor may think that no soul has been found. In fact, it is a soul that has been destroyed. What has been done cannot be undone, therefore when the soul is harmed or has done wrong it is permanently ruined. It cannot be repaired. Therefore, the soul cannot exist permanently except in ruination. Some souls last longer than others. That is all.

A superior power may convince you of its existence through evidence; however, according to a religion, the more evidence provided in that manner the worse the punishment for it will be for you. Therefore, there is no evidence through the senses except hell, yet hell for all eternity in itself it not deemed to be sufficient evidence, and furthermore one cannot know all eternity to verify this. To find oneself in hell is not evidence that one who predicted this is the supreme dominance.

There is hell. For some it is worse than for others. That is all.

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Sebenica
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sebenica » Sat May 25, 2019 11:28 am

Set fire to a bush in front of me.

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