What would God have to do to convince YOU of His existence?

[The Free Joy State]

Erm... "genie"

As for me, I would never again have one single moment's doubt the existence of a benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient higher power if God created a new plant that was ubiquitous in every corner of the globe and was the cure for every cancer.

I don't mean one that may have curative properties, if run through a bunch of processes in a lab, repackaged and sold for thousands per month. I mean one plant that you just had to brew its leaves into a tea and drink them for six to eight weeks and you're cured. Guaranteed!

Just one brand new, ubiquitous healing plant.

EDIT: Incidentally, I'm not an atheist (so possibly not the target audience of this thread). But the question wasn't "Atheists: What Would God Have to Do to Convince You of His Existence"... merely how any doubts could be allayed.

Once again, existence=/=benevolence.

You asked me what would absolutely convince me of the existence of an interventionist God.

I answered.

Producing such a miraculous plant -- freely available and with guaranteed healing properties -- would not necessarily be an act of benevolence -- merely one clear and obvious act of intervention that could not be ignored: a new, previously unseen plant that sprouts everywhere and does something never possible before.

That it would also benefit mankind is purely incidental.

EDIT: And the game isn't for you to rebut what people want in order to believe, with certainty, in an interventionist God. Merely for us to answer the question posed.

[Noretias]

Well..I suppose he could create a universe that doesn't appear to be completely naturalistic/materialistic upon examination. I'm having a little bit of trouble thinking how to answer this question, because the premise is that everything is exactly as it is now and we assume God exists. The reason I don't believe a god exists is because of the world as it is right now, or at least my perception of it. Having grown up Christian(LDS) and then turned to atheism, I just found personally that materialistic explanations seems to hold up on their own merits, and I've yet to encounter any case or problem where adding God or gods to the equation ever really actually added anything or made the ideas better. So I suppose in order to convince me, God would have to do something that completely defies all the evidence we have up until now. Say His voice literally ringing out for every human on earth to hear at once, followed by a a volcano erupting out of the middle of Boise, Idaho that rather than lava spewed out golden light that healed disabilities and convinced skinheads they were terrible people. In other words, God would have to do something that literally only a God could do and could not possibly happen in a naturalistic universe.

[The Free Joy State]

Let's work on Clark's third law. You see something that you thought was previously impossible. Let's see that you see someone levitating, for example. How do you, personally, know that it was caused by technology, rather than magic?

I - being a reasonable person - suspend judgement. Which would make me an "atheist" with regard to their claim since it means I don't believe them.

You're trying to do a "gotcha" here, but it doesn't work. Our position, or at least the position I hope most atheists hold, is logically consistent with the acceptance of unknowns.

It's theists who are constantly saying that everything we don't understand somehow proves their very specific denomination's elaborate set of rituals are totally correct.

EDIT: I hasten to add that I hope most theists would also be skeptical of "magical" claims. Just believing someone is God because they blow your mind once is how you wind up in a cult.

Can confirm. I have a faith. If a person preceded to levitate before me, I would search high and low for the smoke and mirrors. If I could see none, I would still remain doubtful -- and (if I was the only person that saw it) possibly go for a medical health check.

Believing in something absolutely, crushing every single doubt (especially in things laws, like gravity, have proven impossible) has poor precedent.

[USS Monitor]

a volcano erupting out of the middle of Boise, Idaho that rather than lava spewed out golden light that healed disabilities and convinced skinheads they were terrible people.

That would be pretty spiffy.

[The Free Joy State]

a volcano erupting out of the middle of Boise, Idaho that rather than lava spewed out golden light that healed disabilities and convinced skinheads they were terrible people.

That would be pretty spiffy.

I have to admit, if the ubiquitous cancer-curing plant didn't work out, that would be a pretty nice alternative.

How far would the healing light reach? The planet might need more than one.

[USS Monitor]

That would be pretty spiffy.

I have to admit, if the ubiquitous cancer-curing plant didn't work out, that would be a pretty nice alternative.

How far would the healing light reach? The planet might need more than one.

People can make pilgrimages to Idaho.

[Qyrym]

Assuming if he exists and he needs to be overlord of all reality, he doesn't need to convince anyone, he could just make me believe in him.

[The Alma Mater]

I have to admit, if the ubiquitous cancer-curing plant didn't work out, that would be a pretty nice alternative.

How far would the healing light reach? The planet might need more than one.

People can make pilgrimages to Idaho.

So only the rich could get a cure ?
Well, the question was about Gods existence, not his morality...

[Mountain Pygmies]

He would have to destroy himself.

[The Free Joy State]

I have to admit, if the ubiquitous cancer-curing plant didn't work out, that would be a pretty nice alternative.

How far would the healing light reach? The planet might need more than one.

People can make pilgrimages to Idaho.

I was thinking more about the skinheads who may not want to go... and those that couldn't afford the pilgrimage to Idaho.

That's the problem with having one holy site.

All those who can't see the miracle in action themselves have to rely on the word-of-mouth from those who have. And then, how do you know that there's not just some added ingredient in the water in Idaho, or that the miraculous healings are real?

And then there's still that level of scepticism for everyone else.

[USS Monitor]

People can make pilgrimages to Idaho.

So only the rich could get a cure ?
Well, the question was about Gods existence, not his morality...

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

[Dogmeat]

So only the rich could get a cure ?
Well, the question was about Gods existence, not his morality...

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

Just make it so the magical light comes from the sun. That way everyone could be cured once daily, and the only way you could still be a racist is if you were a basement dweller who never went outsi...

I've spotted the flaw in this.

[USS Monitor]

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

Just make it so the magical light comes from the sun. That way everyone could be cured once daily, and the only way you could still be a racist is if you were a basement dweller who never went outsi...

I've spotted the flaw in this.

[Noretias]

So only the rich could get a cure ?
Well, the question was about Gods existence, not his morality...

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

Trust me, the infrastructure in Idaho is not prepared for an influx of pilgrims. Which I guess makes it a cruel location to put it. Or I guess I did say it's light, so maybe it just keeps on going forever into space healing entire planets in its wake, and refracting through the atmosphere to reach everyone on Earth. (Somehow. It's God's volcano, it can do what it wants)

[The Free Joy State]

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

Just make it so the magical light comes from the sun. That way everyone could be cured once daily, and the only way you could still be a racist is if you were a basement dweller who never went outsi...

I've spotted the flaw in this.

Maybe God could infuse it in the water?

[Slongs]

Give me a sign. Just any sign

[Australian rePublic]

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

Just make it so the magical light comes from the sun. That way everyone could be cured once daily, and the only way you could still be a racist is if you were a basement dweller who never went outsi...

I've spotted the flaw in this.

**Cough cough** polar night. If you wanted to be racist that badly, you could simply move to the Arctic

[Australian rePublic]

Once again, existence=/=benevolence.

You asked me what would absolutely convince me of the existence of an interventionist God.

I answered.

Producing such a miraculous plant -- freely available and with guaranteed healing properties -- would not necessarily be an act of benevolence -- merely one clear and obvious act of intervention that could not be ignored: a new, previously unseen plant that sprouts everywhere and does something never possible before.

That it would also benefit mankind is purely incidental.

EDIT: And the game isn't for you to rebut what people want in order to believe, with certainty, in an interventionist God. Merely for us to answer the question posed.

NSG is a debate forum

[Slongs]

How can we prove any of us is even real?

[Synapse X]

People belive in God and some doesn't by the way.

[Noretias]

**Cough cough** polar night. If you wanted to be racist that badly, you could simply move to the Arctic

I mean normally I don't advocate separatism, but if the most hardcore of hardcore racists all run off to be vampires in the Arctic I think I'm still calling that a win.

[The Alma Mater]

So only the rich could get a cure ?
Well, the question was about Gods existence, not his morality...

A one-time trip to Idaho is a lot cheaper than a lifetime of medical care to manage a disability, and there could be charities to help pilgrims make the trip.

For most people there is no medical care. If you are a legless leper in the third world you will not be able to pay for the trip and will simply die after a short,miserable life.

As God intended.

[Noretias]

For most people there is no medical care. If you are a legless leper in the third world you will not be able to pay for the trip and will simply die after a short,miserable life.

As God intended.

If God wanted them to be healed he'd have made them fortunate enough to be born in the right state in the right country. *Nods*

[The Alma Mater]

People belive in God and some doesn't by the way.

True. I would like the OP tell us how Brahma could convice him of his existence.

[The Free Joy State]

You asked me what would absolutely convince me of the existence of an interventionist God.

I answered.

Producing such a miraculous plant -- freely available and with guaranteed healing properties -- would not necessarily be an act of benevolence -- merely one clear and obvious act of intervention that could not be ignored: a new, previously unseen plant that sprouts everywhere and does something never possible before.

That it would also benefit mankind is purely incidental.

EDIT: And the game isn't for you to rebut what people want in order to believe, with certainty, in an interventionist God. Merely for us to answer the question posed.

NSG is a debate forum

It is a debate forum, but I suspect that you hope -- by responding with (effectively) bromides to everything that people say they would need (in order to believe with certainty in an interventionist God) -- not to debate, but proselytise.

But you are not going to persuade anyone that they do not need the proofs they do, in order to believe in an interventionist God.

And you will especially not convince people by lamenting that some people wish to be given things (as everyone who has ever prayed does: they ask for health, for wealth, for wellbeing, for protection -- they ask for God to give them something, perhaps not material and perhaps for their loved ones, rather than them. But, if you pray -- you ask for God to give you something that you do not have or want more of).