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What would God have to do to convince YOU of His existence?

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Eternal Lotharia
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Postby Eternal Lotharia » Fri May 24, 2019 7:16 pm

Badb Catha wrote:
Eternal Lotharia wrote:It's funny how the entire concept of at least the Biblical God but often other Gods is that he refuses to give scientific evidence that can't be construed to mean something else and that people still want him to violate that precept, because of specific circumstances and honestly literal Deus Ex Machina, to which I tell God: Touche.

If you're an Atheist, ok, that's reasonable.

But I feel most Atheists must be exposed to God at a early age.

There's a simple reason beyond the cynical but fair(One even God would and technically does say is a logical thought, even if horribly wrong) response of brainwashing:

Satan, in theory, controls the data and evidence. Not through lies and cover-up, conspiracies, wrong data, etc., but logical misdirection of conclusions of the results. This misdirection ironically doesn't disprove the existence of God, but it's not meant to, it's merely meant to not give any evidence, to frustrate.

That's a core facet of the Bible, him having that power and God knowing reasonable people are being deceived so he does something more subtle.

Now, he also realizes that he will be dismissed as a myth due to that. He knows he'll be seen as just another myth. That's what Revelations refers to:
As humanity grow more distant from Christianity's influence due to time's natural consequences, less and less will be true Christians until the Antichrist deceives them all.

It is my firm belief that the Mark of the Beast represents something that is not arbitrary, but rather a endorsement or taking part in a horrific event that even non-christians should be disgusted at doing, likely a act of great violence or hatred for nature(Mass animal torture/slaughter for the antichrist, murder, torture etc. are visual examples of the thing the people who get the mark are supposed to do that consciously condemns their souls to hell for a act of unspeakable cruelty with some justification by the antichrist for them to do it), or literally implicitly if not outright worshiping Satan in a ritual that is an endorsement of his violent acts and torture of humans, literally a endorsement of his hatred for humanity and betrayal of humanity's dignity and safety and not being tortured by demons alive, all of those woud be a betrayal of god and jesus, an act of hate betrays love, which is what god is supposed to represent.


The rapture then is supposed to represent God giving a final warning in this test to see if they need his existence to be their only reason for them to not act with such cruelty, to give them the free will to make that mistake and show their true selves and how cruel they really are without knowing of God's existence being 100% assured, which is supposed to deter them, 100% proof of his existence, destroying the purpose of this test.



When you look at it this way it all makes sense, and wraps up several loose ends. Will this convince any Atheists?
Of course probably not, and that's good, because it'll show their true character of how they act in a world without God, and possibly due to implications from Revelations, no Moral/Legal hindrance from indulging into one's own spiteful, darkest most violent, evil, and cruel desires.

God doesn't want people to be saved just so because he can. He wants them to be saved because of a will to trust in faith, not fact, and of their own will to risk being wrong to show their loyalty to God, and of a will to be in a community of love for humanity.

Does this community have many faults, conflicts, splits, and bad people within it?
Yes, but the ideas at the heart of the community cannot be changed by those bad people without causing them to lose influence, and many will still stay. As well those bad people(murders as an example), are still punished in the end for paying lip service and not true remorse and compassion for fellow humans.


You may say this argument sounds really complicated, and God would agree. He knows how crazy this can sound-the Bible mentions it-so frankly he's not interested in you believing in his existence.

He challenged us to respect his wishes and we failed.

The challenge he presents to the world is if they can respect each other, without his practically assured existence dissuading us from truly showing not just him, but ourselves and each other if we'll truly respect each other.


Now he probably knows the confusion of the implications of his existence in science, how he can exist, how powerful is he, etc.

I honestly believe if he could have explained it to us, we'd have figured out the answer by ourselves without his help. If we do, there's no need to intervene directly.
If we can't, what makes us believe his logic can make sense to us? We're like Ants. It'd be beyond our comprehension.

As for why he did all this specifically, he likely wants to save that as a moral of the story at the end because he dislikes spoilers. Seriously. The Bible makes it clear he dislikes spoilers. God is 99% likely to be a huge fan of writing and novels. Hell he probably loves fiction that portrays a version of him as evil and/or exaggerated most of all, reading the Bible really gives me that vibe now that I think about it. He probably will give Gnosticism "God's Best Alternate History Award" and may pardon some Gnostics, also contemplating the possibility of that being true and giving him an existential crisis. Or not, but not the point I'm making. :p


That's my answer.

It's long, complicated, and confusing, but honestly:

Assuming that the Bible is true, it fits God's descripted character perfectly, so makes sense.


God is really the biggest H.P. Lovecraft fan there is, loving Lovecraft's made-up Reality before it was cool. :p


I enjoyed reading this, thank you.

Feels odd to have the ideology I strongly oppose on the basis of these beliefs to agree with this concept. Same concept, contradictory conclusions I guess.
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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Fri May 24, 2019 7:41 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:Presumably an omnipotent God would know exactly what it would have to do to prove itself indisputably to absolutely everyone.


Invent the babelfish?
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Fri May 24, 2019 7:43 pm

Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:
Neanderthaland wrote:Presumably an omnipotent God would know exactly what it would have to do to prove itself indisputably to absolutely everyone.


Invent the babelfish?

*Disappears in a puff of logic*
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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Fri May 24, 2019 7:46 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:
Invent the babelfish?

*Disappears in a puff of logic*


And now I can never cross a street ever again. Well played, God.
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Weimar Germany-
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Postby Weimar Germany- » Fri May 24, 2019 7:46 pm

Nothing, because I already believe in His existence.

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Forestavia
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Postby Forestavia » Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 pm

What would God have to do to convince me of It's existence?
(Some of these are a little bit like riddles. I hope somebody gets something out of this mess.)

Response 1:
Nothing. Nothing at all. If God is pure love then it wouldn't make sense for God to prove It's existence. If God felt the need to prove It's existence then God would be operating from a place of ego/pride. The same goes for us. We are made in the image of God and we don't go around waving our arms trying to convince others that we exist, do we?

Response 2:
It doesn't make sense for God to prove that It's limited only to the realm of existence. God neither exists nor doesn't exist. God just is. Period.

Response 3:
God is self-evident. Proof that God exists would be redundant. Every waking moment is absolutely screaming with evidence of the Divine to the point that we're blinded by the evidence. We're so saturated with God's presence that we miss the obvious. God has already done everything It can to prove It's "existence". The real question isn't what God can do, but what can we do to become better listeners?

Response 4:
For me personally, I look for synchronicity, coincidences, luck, blessings, or just a general harmonious flow as I go about my day. God is completely alive and flows through me on those days. Actually, God is always flowing through everyone everyday at all times, but I hope you get my drift. ;)

Response 5:
I don't exist. At least... I don't exist the way I think I do. Therefore, being made in the image of God, I can conclude that God doesn't exist the way I think It does. If God isn't what I think It is, then what can God do to convince me? Hm... This moving target is impossible to hit.

Response 6:
God would not waste time trying to convince us that It exists. We are human and therefore we ourselves are only a small aspect of God. The part cannot contain the whole. This human brain is too limited. Looks like God got Itself in a bind. You can't find it. You can't see it. You can't prove it. What now? Let's say I get sick with a virus. It's like me, a human being, trying to prove to that virus that I exist. Is the virus not me? Am I not the virus? Would I try to convince one of my cells, one of my toes, or one of my organs that I exist? No. My existence is self-evident to me and need not be self-evident to the cell, toe, or organ. The cells, toes, and organs glorify me simply by their existence as part of my body.
God is like this.

Response 7:
It is physically, intellectually, and emotionally impossible for a human being to believe in God. God would not and could not do anything to convince anyone of anything. The part cannot contain the whole.

Response 8:
For proof, try meeting God halfway. We've got some responsibility in this too, you know. Think positive thoughts, pay attention to what you're paying attention to, speak kindly, treat others with respect, if you think there is anything to forgive, then forgive, let go, take time to be alone for a little while everyday, think about your day, visualize yourself as the embodiment of love and freedom, clean something, organize something.
Do these things for a day. Do these things for a week. Do these things for a month. And just watch and see what kind of life you can have for yourself. This is not the path to gumdrops, lollipops, and rainbows. This is the path of the warrior.

Response 9:
One minute I'm happy, the next I'm sad. Sometimes I'm excited and sometimes I'm mad. There are days full of wonder and there are days to just curl up and cry. I act this way with this person and that way with that person. And when I'm alone, I'm this way sometimes and that way at other times. When I'm online I'm more confident. When I'm out of the house I'm less. Sometimes I wonder what others think of me. Sometimes I could care less. I can be cruel. I can be funny. I can be serious. I can be hurt. Sometimes I inspire others. Other times others inspire me. I am loving, prideful, adventurous, humble, angry, overly sensitive, caring, empathetic, sympathetic, curious, thankful, weird, odd, etc... I am different things to different people at different times. We are all like this. We are like a million different people all rolled into one.
God is like this.

Response 10:
Look in the mirror! When we ask God to convince us that God exists it's like God asking God for validation. It's like me, a total stranger, walking up to you asking you to prove to me that you're not a fake you. What can you do to convince me that you're not an imposter? What can I do to convince you that I'm not an imposter? What can God do to convince us that God exists? Would God really waste time proving to Itself that it exists?
The really important question is: What does it take to convince myself that God exists?
Once you have the answer go ahead and convince yourself. After you're done with that, sit down with an atheist and tell them what you have just convinced yourself of. The atheist is the most loyal servant God has and will ruthlessly destroy every Divine concept.
After your meeting, go back and ask the same question of yourself. "What does it take to convince myself that God exists?"
Once you have an answer and you've sufficiently convinced yourself, go back and see the atheist.
Repeat this process until you run out of things to convince yourself of.
Once you've given up on God, then you'll really be ready to look in the mirror!

God shouldn't have to convince you.
You shouldn't have to convince yourself.
Others shouldn't have to convince you.
Is convincing even necessary?

Response 11:
All of the above. There are no contradictions as God is all-encompassing.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri May 24, 2019 10:11 pm

Probably like show up and tell everyone "lol hey I'm actually real", maybe smite some people or turn the Caspian Sea into wine or smthn, fire and brimstone a city somewhere idk
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Borovan entered the region as he
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Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Fri May 24, 2019 10:16 pm

God does not exist. Things just exist as people and how we interact and our environment. We go on in life aging and die. Just like that. It would take a miracle but it would either be easily explained rationally or just doesn't exist .
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Saciu
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Postby Saciu » Fri May 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Do something that undeniably breaks the laws of science.
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Korhal IVV
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Postby Korhal IVV » Fri May 24, 2019 10:22 pm

Logic and arguments were sufficient to convince me that He indeed exists. It was a tedious process of 2 years though. In the end, I found more faults and holes in atheistic naturalism, and none in acknowledging God.
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The Hebrews used male pronouns for entities that were genderless. It just stuck.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Fri May 24, 2019 10:26 pm

US-SSR wrote:Have my wife conceive and bear a child.

P.S. She has no uterus.

P.P.S. On second thought, at that point that would just be showing off...

P.P.P.S. How do you know God is a He?

God may be unhelpful here, but I'm pretty sure a Xenomorph could get this done.
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Anglomir
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Postby Anglomir » Fri May 24, 2019 10:40 pm

Reconcile the problem of evil.
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Ard al Islam
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Postby Ard al Islam » Fri May 24, 2019 10:41 pm

Saciu wrote:Do something that undeniably breaks the laws of science.


Yeah, something that is scientifically impossible. Maybe bend the laws of biology, time, geology, and physiology to help out a few of your worshippers survive in a cave for over 300 years.

Maybe split the sea or even the moon.

Maybe send Messengers with messages that contain facts of science that are not known to the people at the time. Maybe also allow these Messengers to perform miracles(by your(God's) permission) to prove that they are legitimate.

Maybe if that happened, I'd believe in a god.

Oh, wait.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Fri May 24, 2019 10:44 pm

Anglomir wrote:Reconcile the problem of evil.
(Image)

How about if he is able and willing, but there’s a higher priority?
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Fri May 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Galloism wrote:
Anglomir wrote:Reconcile the problem of evil.
(Image)

How about if he is able and willing, but there’s a higher priority?

That's usually what I tell ladies when I'm not able or willing.
Last edited by Neanderthaland on Fri May 24, 2019 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Fri May 24, 2019 10:47 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Galloism wrote:How about if he is able and willing, but there’s a higher priority?

That's usually what I tell ladies when I'm not able.

No one is buying your “but I have to save the Republic” line.
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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Fri May 24, 2019 11:36 pm

Ard al Islam wrote:
Saciu wrote:Do something that undeniably breaks the laws of science.


Yeah, something that is scientifically impossible. Maybe bend the laws of biology, time, geology, and physiology to help out a few of your worshippers survive in a cave for over 300 years.

Maybe split the sea or even the moon.

Maybe send Messengers with messages that contain facts of science that are not known to the people at the time. Maybe also allow these Messengers to perform miracles(by your(God's) permission) to prove that they are legitimate.

Maybe if that happened, I'd believe in a god.

Oh, wait.

Oh, sure. Like how the Earth existed before stars, and that the sky is a solid surface (41:12), or how the moon emits light (71:16), or how all animals live in communities (6:38), and let's not forget the blood clot (23:14), and this is just the stuff I can think of off the top of my head

Great scientific discoveries have been given to us by your Holy Book.
Last edited by Hammer Britannia on Fri May 24, 2019 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Sat May 25, 2019 12:15 am

Consistently and repeatedly perform miracles that violate the laws of physics, and revealing himself to the entire crowd whilst he's at it (preferably to hardcore atheists) and allowing video footage of him to be captured.

Tabor-Zion wrote:
The Brytish Isles wrote:Show up and announce his supposed existence? It’s really that simple.
.


He did that 2000 years ago


And he is a god. He can totally do it again if he wanted.

Ard al Islam wrote:
Saciu wrote:Do something that undeniably breaks the laws of science.


Yeah, something that is scientifically impossible. Maybe bend the laws of biology, time, geology, and physiology to help out a few of your worshippers survive in a cave for over 300 years.

Maybe split the sea or even the moon.

Maybe send Messengers with messages that contain facts of science that are not known to the people at the time. Maybe also allow these Messengers to perform miracles(by your(God's) permission) to prove that they are legitimate.

Maybe if that happened, I'd believe in a god.

Oh, wait.


And he could just do those miracles again, maybe a 2000 anniversary of Jesus' sacrifice reenactment or something.

Keep in mind these miracles (if they even occurred) occurred centuries, or even millennia ago, when the only form of evidence would be writing: something that could have been altered by the writer and we'd have no way to check without using sources that would be as reliable as the first one (i.e it would have the same problems).
Whereas nowadays, we have phones and news outlets and all that shit. We also have scientists who can disprove miracles that aren't actually that special.
Last edited by Estanglia on Sat May 25, 2019 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hanafuridake » Sat May 25, 2019 12:25 am

Senkaku wrote:Probably like show up and tell everyone "lol hey I'm actually real", maybe smite some people or turn the Caspian Sea into wine or smthn, fire and brimstone a city somewhere idk


To be fair, that wouldn't prove he's God. It would prove the existence of the supernatural, but it wouldn't prove that that deity is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent like the Christian God claims to be. He would have to be able to explain the science behind the universe's creation for me to accept that he really was what he claimed to be.
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Postby Omakhandia » Sat May 25, 2019 12:28 am

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat May 25, 2019 12:37 am

The thing is that if we're talking about the omni god then it already knows exactly what would convince me so it would be quite a simple task for it.
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Korhal IVV
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Postby Korhal IVV » Sat May 25, 2019 1:08 am

Anglomir wrote:Reconcile the problem of evil.
(Image)

Theologians in NSG have already explained that away so many times.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Sat May 25, 2019 1:10 am

Korhal IVV wrote:
Anglomir wrote:Reconcile the problem of evil.
(Image)

Theologians in NSG have already explained that away so many times.

Not really no.
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Anglomir
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Postby Anglomir » Sat May 25, 2019 1:22 am

Galloism wrote:
Anglomir wrote:Reconcile the problem of evil.
(Image)

How about if he is able and willing, but there’s a higher priority?

An omnipotent being does not have to prioritise. Check your definitions - if he is omnipotent, and wants it done, it is done. There is no priority list, that would imply that it takes time to work on tasks - which defies the principle of omnipotence.
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Zitravgrad wrote:"In every man, there is an animal that wishes to dominate. But in Anglomir, we are already the dominating race."

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Convallaria wrote:Paternalistic Conservatism with elements of theological dominionism.

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Korhal IVV
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Postby Korhal IVV » Sat May 25, 2019 1:31 am

Genivaria wrote:
Korhal IVV wrote:Theologians in NSG have already explained that away so many times.

Not really no.

Tarsonis wrote:
Page wrote:
Why is it nonsense?


The epicurean riddle fails because it attempts to construct an extremely diametric paradigm of Good and Evil. This only works within Epicurius's moral framework that good is what ever is pleasing, and evil is whatever is displeasing. It doesn't account for a difference between natural evil and moral evil. ( For instance, a hurricane blowing over a city. This is a calamity, but it's not a moral event. It's not morally good or morally bad, it just is.) It also doesn't fit within a Christian moral framework which makes no correlation between suffering and evil, if anything suffering leads to good in the Christian moral framework.

This where the ultimate failing comes in, that if God is able to prevent "evil" he isn't benevolent. The problem of this is that it 1. only works again if you subscribe to epicurean moral framework, and 2. it in no way includes higher order reason and goals, it leaves no room for complexity. There might actually be a benevolent reason that God doesn't act, that the persistence of evil leads to a higher better good.

And of course, it completely ignores the sanctity of free will.


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ABTH Music Education ~ AB Journalism ~ RPer ~ Keyboard Warrior ~ Futurist ~ INTJ

Economic Left/Right: -0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.21
Supports: Christianity, economic development, democracy, common sense, vaccines, space colonization, and health programs
Against: Adding 100 genders, Gay marriage in a church, heresy, Nazism, abortion for no good reason, anti-vaxxers, SJW liberals, and indecency
This nation does reflect my real-life beliefs.
My vocabulary is stranger than a Tzeentchian sorceror. Bare with me.

"Whatever a person may be like, we must still love them because we love God." ~ John Calvin

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