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ICE putting LGBT and disabled immigrants in solitary...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2435
Founded: May 19, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:04 pm

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Your moral compass and my moral compass are largely incompatible, therefore arguing about the morality of the issue is probably pointless since all we would conclude is that we disagree, which we already know. If you want to do that, then I'm fine with it. I'd rather argue why we should or shouldn't do something than argue about which legal technicalities apply.
For the record, I also don't think that we should take in absolutely everyone. But between that and rounding up productive, well-adjusted members of society by the hundreds, tearing apart their families, and subjecting them to dehumanizing conditions, all on the grounds that they didn't file the proper paperwork, I'll take the former, thank you very much.


I doubt our moral compasses differ as much as you seem to think, and I definitely believe in governance guided by compassion and morality vs sterility and bigotry. Here's the rub: "legal technicalities" are how things get done by governments. If you want to hold your government accountable, you either point to an existing law or make a new one. That's how it works, and it's generally for the better that way. If you want to get yourself all in a tizzy over the blatant human rights abuses on display here, then fine - but unless you channel that into actually doing something, i.e. legal challenges, you're basically just sitting here jerking off into a bucket, and claiming the moral high ground for it. What have you actually done to help these people?

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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 4111
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:11 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:So you do, in fact, believe that the US is an illegitimate state?


I don't believe there is such a thing as a legitimate nor illegitimate state.

You literally just said every other nation that isn’t the United States is illegitimate.
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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57100
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:29 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Liriena wrote:"Sovereignity for me but not for thee", quoth conservatives, neck-deep in pure ideology.


I don't believe in sovereignty. I believe America is right and literally every other government on the face of the Earth is illegitimate.

lmao
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New Lindale
Envoy
 
Posts: 315
Founded: Jun 21, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Lindale » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:34 pm

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
New Lindale wrote:So, NBC generally is biased, but I still don't what to make of it considering they decided to mention Obama and the threat of human rights he was. I do not deny any of this happening, but I still think there is more to this.

So your defense of these actions is "I'm sure they had a good reason for doing it".

No. What I mean is there could a be a political agenda being pushed here. The actions are indefensible, but there could be something else at play.
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Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2435
Founded: May 19, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:38 pm

New Lindale wrote:No. What I mean is there could a be a political agenda being pushed here. The actions are indefensible, but there could be something else at play.


"Their actions are indefensible, but there might be a defense?" :eyebrow: What are you driving at here?

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The World Capitalist Confederation
Minister
 
Posts: 3490
Founded: Dec 07, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Novus America wrote:
Twilight Imperium wrote:
I have no intention of disproving any of it, since that's not my job. However, since most illegal immigration involves people overstaying their visas rather than fleeing an oppressive regime, invoking the refugee act is a weird flex.


Oh the vast majority of refugee claims are actually BS, (some 80% get rejected) but still they have to be processed to find out which are BS, and which are not.

Rejected =/= BS.

Much of it is just "Sorry, quota's out, bye!"

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46068
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:13 pm

New Lindale wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:So your defense of these actions is "I'm sure they had a good reason for doing it".

No. What I mean is there could a be a political agenda being pushed here. The actions are indefensible, but there could be something else at play.


And that political agenda would be... what?
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New Lindale
Envoy
 
Posts: 315
Founded: Jun 21, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Lindale » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:18 pm

Twilight Imperium wrote:
New Lindale wrote:No. What I mean is there could a be a political agenda being pushed here. The actions are indefensible, but there could be something else at play.


"Their actions are indefensible, but there might be a defense?" :eyebrow: What are you driving at here?

It's not about ICE, it's about the publication. Further research into the topic I uncovered that last year a lawsuit was being filed against the Obama cabinet on the unacceptable treatment of those as young as 14 in a Virginia facility. My suspicion is that they may be hinting at trump, however, the timeline of documents start at the beginning of Obama's second term.
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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46068
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:25 pm

New Lindale wrote:
Twilight Imperium wrote:
"Their actions are indefensible, but there might be a defense?" :eyebrow: What are you driving at here?

It's not about ICE, it's about the publication. Further research into the topic I uncovered that last year a lawsuit was being filed against the Obama cabinet on the unacceptable treatment of those as young as 14 in a Virginia facility. My suspicion is that they may be hinting at trump, however, the timeline of documents start at the beginning of Obama's second term.


#butobama

#brownmanbad
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The World Capitalist Confederation
Minister
 
Posts: 3490
Founded: Dec 07, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:27 pm

Vassenor wrote:
New Lindale wrote:It's not about ICE, it's about the publication. Further research into the topic I uncovered that last year a lawsuit was being filed against the Obama cabinet on the unacceptable treatment of those as young as 14 in a Virginia facility. My suspicion is that they may be hinting at trump, however, the timeline of documents start at the beginning of Obama's second term.


#butobama

#brownmanbad

You do realise that Obama’s administration wasn’t all that good, right?

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New Political RP here!

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Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46068
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:40 pm

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
#butobama

#brownmanbad

You do realise that Obama’s administration wasn’t all that good, right?


I didn't say that.
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Great Minarchistan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5809
Founded: Jan 08, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Great Minarchistan » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:56 pm

Rather clickbaity title? I pored through the entire excerpt presented and other than one or two anecdotal mentions I didn't see ICE having any more hatred for the LGBT and disabled prisoners than for any other illegals.
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