ICE putting LGBT and disabled immigrants in solitary...

[Ifreann]

You're not purging people from society that you think are undesirable. There's just some people that you don't desire having in your society and so you're making them go away, but it's okay because of some paperwork.


I'm just repeating your posts back to you and highlighting some bits through paraphrasing. If there's any communist bullshit here, its all your own doing.

It isn't paperwork. It's something called "Borders".

It's called "citizenship", very obviously from context, and citizenship is paperwork.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

.
I would like to see this flag that has been supposedly waiving since before recorded history.

There are trillions of copies in your person at this very moment.

[Inkopolitia]

It isn't paperwork. It's something called "Borders".

It's called "citizenship", very obviously from context, and citizenship is paperwork.

Paperwork that is needed because unregulated borders can't exist. Ease up the immigration process and get rid of the bureaucracy? Ye. I'm on board. Disregard borders? No.

It isn't paperwork. It's something called "Borders".

Borders are social constructs.

Everything around you, everyone and me is a social construct

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

Any two random human beings are genetically 99.999% identical. All humans are genetically interchangeable with every other human. Any argument that purely cosmetic differences (hair or skin color, etc) constitute sufficient justification for nationstates is patent absurdity.

EDIT: Crap, it's actually 99.999% identical. Damn you percentages!

Of course this is true, but you must also consider the following:

When you think of a Swede, do you think of a black man with black hair and brown eyes? Most likely not; most likely you think of a pale white man with bright blonde hair and bright blue eyes. That is what most people will likely think of. Does this mean that a Swede cannot be a black man with black hair and brown eyes? Or that he must be a pale white man with bright blonde hair and bright blue eyes? Of course not; both notions are equally absurd. What makes a Swede a Swede is the culture he has embraced: the traditions he respects, the customs he follows, the religion he is part of, the food he makes, the language he speaks, etc. - this is what makes a true national. But every nation has an ethnicity that is intrinsic to it; one that it was born from. It is wrong to say this is not important to a national identity when it very much is. Swedes are Nords; we think of them as Nords; we know them to be Nords; they have always been Nords. If a few Swedes are not Nords, then it is not a problem. If a great many Swedes are not Nords, it presents a problem in the form of radical change that can potentially alter the very identity of the nation. National identities of course evolve over time, but rarely through immigration. When it happens through immigration there is always a risk that the nation that was before may be erased in transition and no one wants to see their nation erased. Of course old nations must be erased for new ones to arise, this is simply the way of life, but that does mean we must sit idly by and watch helplessly as our nations to destroy themselves. We all want to see our nations survive and continue to exist, to let the world know that we are still here hundreds of years after our founding. There is nothing wrong with that.

If it's absurd to claim that a Swede must be white, or cannot be black, then ethnicity is irrelevant. Ergo, nations do not have "inherent" ethnicities. Ergo, the inclusion of immigrants doesn't erase or threaten anything.

Sorry, this attempt at clothing racialism in terms of diversity is not only a Trojan horse. It's also internally self-contradictory and thus self-destructing.

There are no "nations" or "ethnicities." There is a species, it's been that way for at least a quarter million years, and it's time we put silly nonsense behind us and started acting like it.

[Ifreann]

It's called "citizenship", very obviously from context, and citizenship is paperwork.

Paperwork that is...

So we're agreed, citizenship is a matter of paperwork. Wonderful.

[Inkopolitia]

Paperwork that is...

So we're agreed, citizenship is a matter of paperwork. Wonderful.

I thought that you were infering borders, not citizenship. You're right on the part that I said that. Either way, this paperwork is necessary.

[US-SSR]

Abolish ICE.

[Liriena]

Love all the torture apologists in this thread. Never stop posting, you guys!

Special kudos for the extremely predictable and painfully unoriginal "if you don't want to be tortured, don't immigrate into the US" hot take, and lots of love for the one person sincerely arguing that torturing undocumented immigrants is actually good and fair.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Abolish ICE.

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

I was not specifically speaking of genetic difference, just difference in general.

I would like to see this flag that has been supposedly waiving since before recorded history.

Eddie Izzard has it, I believe.

If society faces any sort of threat, it's that cafeteria trays are always wet.

[Novus America]

Abolish ICE.

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

Why actually think things through when we have dank memes.

[Liriena]

Abolish ICE.

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

Abolish ICE.

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

ICE has only been a thing since 2003, so it's removal probably wouldn't really change much. Besides removing an agency that does things like OP describes.

[Liriena]

~1500 confirmed cases (and this is only the ones where they've acknowledged their mistake and released them) between 2012-2018

Out of all the people they detain in a year, that's honestly not that much.

"This government agency is violating the human rights of so many people every year that them wrongfully violating the human rights of 1500 American citizens is not significant" is some fine suicide by words.

[Liriena]

Sounds like they are doing a pretty good job to me.

Don't try to illegally enter a country.

There's a word for illegal entry into another country: invasion.

No. It's just illegal entry. Stop trying to emotionally manipulate people with stale old xenophobic propaganda.

[Novus America]

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

Yes let’s accuse thousands of being criminals just because we disagree with a certain controversial policy of their employer that only involves one part of a large organization.

[Inkopolitia]

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

Are you advocating punishment of all based on the actions of the few? This isn't a 3rd grade class. We don't do that here.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

They say 99.9, not 99.999.

Sorry. Clearly we should be budding a few new species any moment now. Wonder if any of them will be Swedish?

[Novus America]

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

ICE has only been a thing since 2003, so it's removal probably wouldn't really change much. Besides removing an agency that does things like OP describes.

It took over functions from agencies created in 1789 and 1933...

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Abolish ICE.

*Fist Bumps*

My man.

Abolishing ICE without replacing it is ignorant. Just because it was founded in 2003 does not mean it did not have predecessor agencies that did the same thing.

[Liriena]

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

Yes let’s accuse thousands of being criminals just because we disagree with a certain policy of their employer that only involves one part of a large organization.

Yes. If you are part of an organization that systemically engages in crimes against humanity, your continued employment in that organization should be enough to put you in front of a grand jury as an accomplice of those crimes. If they're actually innocent, then they'll have nothing to worry about.

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

Are you advocating punishment of all based on the actions of the few? This isn't a 3rd grade class. We don't do that here.

If you are an active member of a criminal organization, that makes you a criminal.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Lets not. Reform sure, but outright abolishing it is about as meme worthy as abolishing the ATF or any other alphabet agency you personally dislike.

I'd be willing to make that compromise on one condition: every current and former ICE employee or chief gotta stand trial for crimes against humanity. Every single one. Even the "I was just a good boi who followed orders" ones.

No, that's retarded lol.

Whilst I myself like to dab on ATF whenever possible outright abolishing them would, in the eyes of most people at least, be a disaster and I don't think you'd actually want to take that compromise. Do bear in mind they keep track of fully automatic weaponry and high explosives. Most people who aren't me would be super uncomfortable with that oversight being removed.

[Inkopolitia]

Yes let’s accuse thousands of being criminals just because we disagree with a certain policy of their employer that only involves one part of a large organization.

Yes. If you are part of an organization that systemically engages in crimes against humanity, your continued employment in that organization should be enough to put you in front of a grand jury as an accomplice of those crimes. If they're actually innocent, then they'll have nothing to worry about.

Are you advocating punishment of all based on the actions of the few? This isn't a 3rd grade class. We don't do that here.

If you are an active member of a criminal organization, that makes you a criminal.

This is some flawed logic. Punishing people who did nothing wrong is not a good idea, no matter how you see it.

[Novus America]

Yes let’s accuse thousands of being criminals just because we disagree with a certain policy of their employer that only involves one part of a large organization.

Yes. If you are part of an organization that systemically engages in crimes against humanity, your continued employment in that organization should be enough to put you in front of a grand jury as an accomplice of those crimes. If they're actually innocent, then they'll have nothing to worry about.

Are you advocating punishment of all based on the actions of the few? This isn't a 3rd grade class. We don't do that here.

If you are an active member of a criminal organization, that makes you a criminal.

See you think this is funny. You care nothing about destroying middle class families based on your subjective views.
Sad but not surprising.

[Telconi]

People come in exactly two categories now?

Those with loaded guns and those who dig.
You dig.

While a good reference, I'd point out that I actually presently have a loaded gun. So I most certainly fall into the former category.