Homeless shelters in US may soon be able to deny transgender

[Threlizdun]

Women's shelters do not discriminate based on gender. They are established for the specific purpose of combating violence against women, and specialize in genered violence and women's services. Trans women undergo gendered violence at rates similar to or above those of cis women. It makes sense having trans women in women's shelters because they're women and experience violence in ways similar to cis women.

So men who are victims of gendered violence are permitted in women's shelters? Source?

I never said that. I said they are shelters for women who have generally been victims of gendered violence. Not arguing that violence against men doesn't happen, as it clearly does, but gendered violence does not occur against men at anywhere near the level of women. These shelters do not accommodate men because they are serving a specific demographic of abused persons, one in which a majority of have experienced male violence.

Historically, women's shelters developed largely due to the fact that both marital rape and domestic violence used to be legal, and that such shelters offered one of the only escape routes for women victimized by their intimate partners. While the legal situation has thankfully improved, domestic violence victims still make up the majority of individuals in women's shelters.

[Galloism]

So men who are victims of gendered violence are permitted in women's shelters? Source?

I never said that. I said they are shelters for women who have generally been victims of gendered violence. Not arguing that violence against men doesn't happen, as it clearly does, but gendered violence does not occur against men at anywhere near the level of women. These shelters do not accommodate men because they are serving a specific demographic of abused persons, one in which a majority of have experienced male violence.

Historically, women's shelters developed largely due to the fact that both marital rape and domestic violence used to be legal, and that such shelters offered one of the only escape routes for women victimized by their intimate partners. While the legal situation has thankfully improved, domestic violence victims still make up the majority of individuals in women's shelters.

So they do discriminate based on gender?

Also, what is "gendered violence"? I think our terms are important to define.

[Chan Island]

This thread title reads like something on the rap sheet of a comic book villain.

[The Lone Alliance]

How about we don't have women's shelters or men's shelters or trans shelters, we just have shelters. Segregation is bad folks, I thought we established that.

Separation is the pragmatic solution here. All the arguing about who should be allowed where and with who, is wasting time and effort that could be used to help people get out of the streets. Make separate fucking shelters for everyone so all the idpol idiots on all sides can shut the hell up and stop slowing down aid to homeless people.

I'm reminded of something else when looking at Homeless shelters.

A lot of homeless shelters also discriminate religiously from what I've seen, you only eat Kosher or Halal? You better hope that a Homeless shelter designed to cater to your religious views is nearby because from what I'm seeing there's nothing mandating all shelters do that.

In response to this though, many people from such groups have made their own homeless shelters instead, so people from their faith could have a place that could serve as a shelter and where they could be treated according to their beliefs.

[Quaeg]

Separation is the pragmatic solution here. All the arguing about who should be allowed where and with who, is wasting time and effort that could be used to help people get out of the streets. Make separate fucking shelters for everyone so all the idpol idiots on all sides can shut the hell up and stop slowing down aid to homeless people.

I'm reminded of something else when looking at Homeless shelters.

A lot of homeless shelters also discriminate religiously from what I've seen, you only eat Kosher or Halal? You better hope that a Homeless shelter designed to cater to your religious views is nearby because from what I'm seeing there's nothing mandating all shelters do that.

In response to this though, many people from such groups have made their own homeless shelters instead, so people from their faith could have a place that could serve as a shelter and where they could be treated according to their beliefs.

Trans-only shelters could be a somewhat pragmatic solution, but I get the feeling alot of people would get mad about having shelters exclusively for trans people given the amount of times we see people mocking PC culture, snowflakes, safe-spaces, etc in various discourses. It might also help to foster an even greater sense of other-ness which is already a big reason why trans people are discriminated against. But a shelter run by and for trans people could be a decent solution otherwise, unless bigots decide to rock up and cause trouble. After all, what's to stop a man pretending he's trans to get into a trans-only shelter to abuse people.

[Gormwood]

I'm reminded of something else when looking at Homeless shelters.

A lot of homeless shelters also discriminate religiously from what I've seen, you only eat Kosher or Halal? You better hope that a Homeless shelter designed to cater to your religious views is nearby because from what I'm seeing there's nothing mandating all shelters do that.

In response to this though, many people from such groups have made their own homeless shelters instead, so people from their faith could have a place that could serve as a shelter and where they could be treated according to their beliefs.

Trans-only shelters could be a somewhat pragmatic solution, but I get the feeling alot of people would get mad about having shelters exclusively for trans people given the amount of times we see people mocking PC culture, snowflakes, safe-spaces, etc in various discourses. It might also help to foster an even greater sense of other-ness which is already a big reason why trans people are discriminated against. But a shelter run by and for trans people could be a decent solution otherwise, unless bigots decide to rock up and cause trouble. After all, what's to stop a man pretending he's trans to get into a trans-only shelter to abuse people.

Odds are he'll be a stupid fuck announcing his plot on the internet beforehand.

[Des-Bal]

It really comes down to why shelters should be restricted by gender. If it's comfort and transgender people tend to make cisgender women uncomfortable then yeah it makes sense to deny them.

Trans-only shelters could be a somewhat pragmatic solution, but I get the feeling alot of people would get mad about having shelters exclusively for trans people given the amount of times we see people mocking PC culture, snowflakes, safe-spaces, etc in various discourses. It might also help to foster an even greater sense of other-ness which is already a big reason why trans people are discriminated against. But a shelter run by and for trans people could be a decent solution otherwise, unless bigots decide to rock up and cause trouble. After all, what's to stop a man pretending he's trans to get into a trans-only shelter to abuse people.

The same magical force that stops a man from pretending to be trans and going into a women's shelter. Or the magical force that tops a woman from doing the same. Have you ever been to a shelter? They're terrible.

[Cappuccina]

This is disgusting. Any republican that claims to be moral yet supports the policy or the president or who anyone else who supports it cannot claim to be moral and have sold their soul to the devil. Whether you think Transgenderism is a illness or not this is inexcusable.

How many more shitty stuff does the Trump Admin. have to do before you all realize it's pure evil and Anti-Christian?

If you've signed a deal with the devil (as the religious right has), why would you suddenly start caring about something being evil and anti-Christian?

Amen....just amen.

[Cappuccina]

It really comes down to why shelters should be restricted by gender. If it's comfort and transgender people tend to make cisgender women uncomfortable then yeah it makes sense to deny them.

Trans-only shelters could be a somewhat pragmatic solution, but I get the feeling alot of people would get mad about having shelters exclusively for trans people given the amount of times we see people mocking PC culture, snowflakes, safe-spaces, etc in various discourses. It might also help to foster an even greater sense of other-ness which is already a big reason why trans people are discriminated against. But a shelter run by and for trans people could be a decent solution otherwise, unless bigots decide to rock up and cause trouble. After all, what's to stop a man pretending he's trans to get into a trans-only shelter to abuse people.

The same magical force that stops a man from pretending to be trans and going into a women's shelter. Or the magical force that tops a woman from doing the same. Have you ever been to a shelter? They're terrible.

They should be more worried about not being on the street, instead of how "uncomfortable" trans people make them.... priorities though right?
Nonetheless, I agree we should just make separate shelters so people will stop bitching.

[Des-Bal]

They should be more worried about not being on the street, instead of how "uncomfortable" trans people make them.... priorities though right?
Nonetheless, I agree we should just make separate shelters so people will stop bitching.

If that's the logic then no gender segregation at all, no women's or mens shelters. The concern of course is that if people don't feel safe in a shelter they're not going to go.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Woot woot all aboard the homeless train

[Cappuccina]

They should be more worried about not being on the street, instead of how "uncomfortable" trans people make them.... priorities though right?
Nonetheless, I agree we should just make separate shelters so people will stop bitching.

If that's the logic then no gender segregation at all, no women's or mens shelters. The concern of course is that if people don't feel safe in a shelter they're not going to go.

That's people being ungrateful and not having their priorities in order. Would they feel safer back under a bridge somewhere?

[Aclion]

If that's the logic then no gender segregation at all, no women's or mens shelters. The concern of course is that if people don't feel safe in a shelter they're not going to go.

That's people being ungrateful and not having their priorities in order. Would they feel safer back under a bridge somewhere?

Yes, hence why many sleep on the street instead of in the shelter whenever weather permits it.

[Cappuccina]

That's people being ungrateful and not having their priorities in order. Would they feel safer back under a bridge somewhere?

Yes, hence why many sleep on the street instead of in the shelter whenever weather permits it.

Priorities, amirite?

[The Lone Alliance]

If that's the logic then no gender segregation at all, no women's or mens shelters. The concern of course is that if people don't feel safe in a shelter they're not going to go.

That's people being ungrateful and not having their priorities in order. Would they feel safer back under a bridge somewhere?

The problem with that argument is you can reverse it on the Transgender people.

"Homeless Transgender people should be more worried about not being on the street, instead of how "Uncomfortable" it would be going to a shelter that doesn't match their gender identity... priorities though right?"

[Cappuccina]

That's people being ungrateful and not having their priorities in order. Would they feel safer back under a bridge somewhere?

The problem with that argument is you can reverse it on the Transgender people.

"Homeless Transgender people should be more worried about not being on the street, instead of how "Uncomfortable" it would be going to a shelter that doesn't match their gender identity... priorities though right?"

I agree with that. Either way it's idiotic to be more worried about comfort than having food and a roof over your head.

[Des-Bal]

I agree with that. Either way it's idiotic to be more worried about comfort than having food and a roof over your head.

True but it's inhumane to take an action that results in more people going without food or shelter and consoling yourself with the fact they were idiots. If someone ends up on the streets or trapped in an abusive situation because you didn't care about their comfort that's a bad thing.

[Cappuccina]

I agree with that. Either way it's idiotic to be more worried about comfort than having food and a roof over your head.

True but it's inhumane to take an action that results in more people going without food or shelter and consoling yourself with the fact they were idiots. If someone ends up on the streets or trapped in an abusive situation because you didn't care about their comfort that's a bad thing.

That's why I said I'd support seperate shelters for everyone, cismen, ciswomen, transmen, transwomen...that way everyone's happy, and people can be given shelter without ridiculous idpol sentiment getting everyone butthurt.

[Galloism]

True but it's inhumane to take an action that results in more people going without food or shelter and consoling yourself with the fact they were idiots. If someone ends up on the streets or trapped in an abusive situation because you didn't care about their comfort that's a bad thing.

That's why I said I'd support seperate shelters for everyone, cismen, ciswomen, transmen, transwomen...that way everyone's happy, and people can be given shelter without ridiculous idpol sentiment getting everyone butthurt.

I mean, that leads to only one logical conclusion.

Basically no trans shelters, and basically no men's shelters. Trans shelters because there's too few trans persons to justify shelters in all but the largest cities, and no men's shelters because people literally fight against there being any funding or support for men's shelters based on lack of caring for men as a group.

EDIT: that was a dumb thing to say. Let me try again.

Only people society sees as worth protecting (cisgender women) will have shelters, and everyone else can get bent, basically.

[Kowani]

That's why I said I'd support seperate shelters for everyone, cismen, ciswomen, transmen, transwomen...that way everyone's happy, and people can be given shelter without ridiculous idpol sentiment getting everyone butthurt.

I mean, that leads to only one logical conclusion.

Basically no trans shelters, and basically no men's shelters. Trans shelters because there's too few trans persons to justify shelters in all but the largest cities, and no men's shelters because people literally fight against there being any funding or support for men's shelters based on lack of caring for men as a group.

In broad terms, only the privileged will have shelters (cis women), and everyone else can get bent, basically.

To be fair, I’m not sure if you can really call homeless people privileged.

[Galloism]

I mean, that leads to only one logical conclusion.

Basically no trans shelters, and basically no men's shelters. Trans shelters because there's too few trans persons to justify shelters in all but the largest cities, and no men's shelters because people literally fight against there being any funding or support for men's shelters based on lack of caring for men as a group.

In broad terms, only the privileged will have shelters (cis women), and everyone else can get bent, basically.

To be fair, I’m not sure if you can really call homeless people privileged.

These people aren't homeless exactly. They're suffering domestic violence.

To your point however, you're right. I reflexively tossed out "privilege" where it doesn't really belong. Everyone should have access to shelter. I screwed up - at least based on the article Ostro shared earlier.

I'll edit.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

How about we don't have women's shelters or men's shelters or trans shelters, we just have shelters. Segregation is bad folks, I thought we established that.

Separation is the pragmatic solution here. All the arguing about who should be allowed where and with who, is wasting time and effort that could be used to help people get out of the streets. Make separate fucking shelters for everyone so all the idpol idiots on all sides can shut the hell up and stop slowing down aid to homeless people.

Short term pragmatically, sure, but I think long term, we gotta phase out this segregationist stuff.

[Galloism]

Separation is the pragmatic solution here. All the arguing about who should be allowed where and with who, is wasting time and effort that could be used to help people get out of the streets. Make separate fucking shelters for everyone so all the idpol idiots on all sides can shut the hell up and stop slowing down aid to homeless people.

Short term pragmatically, sure, but I think long term, we gotta phase out this segregationist stuff.

As the Supreme Court indicated - separate but equal is inherently unequal.

[Fartsniffage]

Short term pragmatically, sure, but I think long term, we gotta phase out this segregationist stuff.

As the Supreme Court indicated - separate but equal is inherently unequal.

Which is why it's law that all hospital wards are unisex.

[Galloism]

As the Supreme Court indicated - separate but equal is inherently unequal.

Which is why it's law that all hospital wards are unisex.

I can’t think of a sex segregated hospital ward off hand.