Homeless shelters in US may soon be able to deny transgender

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Who came up with the marvelous idea of single-sex homeless shelters anyway? They're homeless shelters, it's not exactly somewhere you go by choice.

[Donutlia]

Damn. And here I thought America was shit enough as is. As a place founded on civil rights, I'm surprised it's gotten this way already.

Which narrative are you reading from? Maybe if you mean civil rights for christian, straight, white males, preferably wealthy, then yeah.

I dunno dudes. Why should they even care for gender? It's a homeless shelter, not non-transgender exclusive club or something, so... this is just plain illogical.

It's logical to prevent rape. You do not put men of unknown background alone with women who might be there because of abuse. The whole transgender issue is: what's to stop a man from claiming he is a woman for nefarious reasons?

[Vassenor]

However, I am not saying there should be no regulation, there is a small majority of people who abuse the transgender alias just to get in kahoots with the other sex, which is indeed a disgrace to ACTUAL transgenders.

That sounds like a claim you can provide actual evidence for.

[Quaeg]

So sending transwomen - a pretty friggin vulnerabe subsection of society - away from womens' shelters, presumably to go to mens' shelters instead, is not a problem? Good to know that there's a clear hierarchy of whose wellbeing is more important than others.

[Vassenor]

Damn. And here I thought America was shit enough as is. As a place founded on civil rights, I'm surprised it's gotten this way already.

Which narrative are you reading from? Maybe if you mean civil rights for christian, straight, white males, preferably wealthy, then yeah.

I dunno dudes. Why should they even care for gender? It's a homeless shelter, not non-transgender exclusive club or something, so... this is just plain illogical.

It's logical to prevent rape. You do not put men of unknown background alone with women who might be there because of abuse. The whole transgender issue is: what's to stop a man from claiming he is a woman for nefarious reasons?

So prove that happens then. Because otherwise it's not logical, it's forcing a narrative.

[Mystic Warriors]

Trump is an alt right bigot, we new this. Vote him out.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Good! A women's refuge is no place for a man, no matter if they're trans or not.

There homeless shelters. Gender or Sex has nothing to do with helping the homeless.

[Mystic Warriors]

Which narrative are you reading from? Maybe if you mean civil rights for christian, straight, white males, preferably wealthy, then yeah.



It's logical to prevent rape. You do not put men of unknown background alone with women who might be there because of abuse. The whole transgender issue is: what's to stop a man from claiming he is a woman for nefarious reasons?

So prove that happens then. Because otherwise it's not logical, it's forcing a narrative.

It's also violating one person rights because somebody else might do something. It's a lie to mask bigotry as trying to protect people.

[Mystic Warriors]

Good! A women's refuge is no place for a man, no matter if they're trans or not.

A trans man is a woman.

[Valentine Z]

Due to the topic being cut off, I thought the title would go:

"Homeless shelters in US may soon be a thing," I thought that there would be more homeless shelters in many more states, or something to that effect.

Needless to say, I was a damn optimist.

---

Anyway, back to the topic at hand:

I... but just why? I would say that this is definitely a step backwards if this is to be enacted.

[Aclion]

What say you NSG?

I say that you're burying the lead in order to push a narrative. This is only for single sex shelters.

[Luziyca]

That proposed policy is a fucking disgrace.

[Mystic Warriors]

What say you NSG?

I say that you're burying the lead in order to push a narrative. This is only for single sex shelters.

It is still wrong.

[Aclion]

I say that you're burying the lead in order to push a narrative. This is only for single sex shelters.

It is still wrong.

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

but trans women aren't men, they're women.

Ah, but how are the shelter staff going to know who's a trans woman and who's a man saying they're trans so they can get in and find their ex?

but these are homeless shelters not womens shelters.

The distinction isn't meaningful, abuse is rampant in homeless shelters, hence why women's only shelters exist.

Who came up with the marvelous idea of single-sex homeless shelters anyway? They're homeless shelters, it's not exactly somewhere you go by choice.

They exist because of the sexual assault in homeless shelters.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

What say you NSG?

I say that you're burying the lead in order to push a narrative. This is only for single sex shelters.

Only you say?

https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201904&RIN=2506-AC53

This proposed rule provides that grant recipients, subrecipients, owners, operators, managers, and providers (Shelter Providers) under HUD programs which permit single-sex or sex-segregated facilities (such as bathrooms or temporary, emergency shelters and other buildings and facilities with physical limitations or configurations that require and are permitted to have shared sleeping quarters or bathing facilities) may establish a policy, consistent with state and local law, by which such Shelter Provider considers an individual’s sex for the purposes of determining accommodation within such shelters and for purposes of determining sex for admission to any facility or portion thereof.

This rule would also allow sex segregated homeless shelters to turn away transgender people.

[Mystic Warriors]

Can someone provide evidence of abuse in these shelters?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

but trans women aren't men, they're women.

Ah, but how are the shelter staff going to know who's a trans woman and who's a man saying they're trans so they can get in and find their ex?

Supervision of all the admitted to make sure no one fights anyone?

[Vassenor]

It is still wrong.

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

but trans women aren't men, they're women.

Ah, but how are the shelter staff going to know who's a trans woman and who's a man saying they're trans so they can get in and find their ex?

but these are homeless shelters not womens shelters.

The distinction isn't meaningful, abuse is rampant in homeless shelters, hence why women's only shelters exist.

Who came up with the marvelous idea of single-sex homeless shelters anyway? They're homeless shelters, it's not exactly somewhere you go by choice.

They exist because of the sexual assault in homeless shelters.

>a man saying they're trans so they can get in and find their ex?

You mind proving that this actually happens, please?

[The Archregimancy]

Temporarily locked while I examine a reported issue in the thread.

I'm grateful for your patience.

[The Archregimancy]

It is still wrong.

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

but trans women aren't men, they're women.

Ah, but how are the shelter staff going to know who's a trans woman and who's a man saying they're trans so they can get in and find their ex?

but these are homeless shelters not womens shelters.

The distinction isn't meaningful, abuse is rampant in homeless shelters, hence why women's only shelters exist.

Aclion, I would advise you against using this type of argument where your counter-argument is based on what you predict someone else is going to say, in particular putting it in quote boxes assigned to that person's hypothetical future self.

Even if Mystic Warriors does end up making the arguments outlined above, this can be misconstrued.

I don't think what you've done is actionable (and for clarity this is neither a formal nor an informal warning), and you are making a valid argument; but this tactic could lead to significant misunderstandings. There are perhaps better ways of approaching the issue.

Thread will now be unlocked.

[Galloism]

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

I'll go out on a limb and say yes to this.

If segregation is the answer, you're probably answering the wrong question.

In choosing to answer this question, I asked myself the following:

Should white shelters be required to allow black people in?

And that's the answer I landed on.

[Skyhooked]

It's logical to prevent rape. You do not put men of unknown background alone with women who might be there because of abuse. The whole transgender issue is: what's to stop a man from claiming he is a woman for nefarious reasons?

Like male-female rape is the only bad and criminal thing that can happen when people of unknown background are bunched together. There are other crimes, and they are handled somehow. So... this segregation does very little. Let's get rid of it and that's all.

[Donutlia]

Can someone provide evidence of abuse in these shelters?

So prove that happens then. Because otherwise it's not logical, it's forcing a narrative.

Well let's ask the magic search engine. Just glancing at the top 10 results (we have a life) for each search.
>search: rape homeless shelter
>yup happens
>search: rape transgender
>yup happens (M2F rapes women)
>search: rape homeless shelter transgender

Well nothing but debate regarding rape. Downgrade to harassment for now.
https://torontosun.com/2014/02/26/preda ... c9d0012ce5
https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/ar ... 60720.html

Doing the right thing regarding trans people and women do not have to be mutually exclusive you know. However, you might consider that it's irresponsible to just pretend rape won't happen.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

I'll go out on a limb and say yes to this.

If segregation is the answer, you're probably answering the wrong question.

In choosing to answer this question, I asked myself the following:

Should white shelters be required to allow black people in?

And that's the answer I landed on.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Farnhamia]

Should womens shelters be required to allow men in?

I'll go out on a limb and say yes to this.

If segregation is the answer, you're probably answering the wrong question.

In choosing to answer this question, I asked myself the following:

Should white shelters be required to allow black people in?

And that's the answer I landed on.

I suppose you didn't see Arch's post advising Aclion not to do the "Future Somebody" prediction thing because, well ...

I would advise you against using this type of argument where your counter-argument is based on what you predict someone else is going to say, in particular putting it in quote boxes assigned to that person's hypothetical future self.

Even if Mystic Warriors does end up making the arguments outlined above, this can be misconstrued.

As a one-time thing, it's not actionable, but if it becomes a trend we'll have to discuss that in the Mod Lair.

Thanks.