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Climate change claims its first mammal

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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Tue May 21, 2019 9:58 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:I agree. Environmentalism will start to really catch on once environmentalidtd start focusing on the practical benefits to preserving nature rather as opposed to capitalizing on kneejerk emotional responses.


They were unlikely an important food source given how fragile their species as a while was. Otherwise, they’d have gone extinct a while ago.

You know, by pointing out how some species serve no purpose but providing you opportunities to grandstand, you’re not doing those species any favors

So in other words if they dont benefit us who cares if they go extinct? Thinking like this makes me agree with Thanos in Infinity War. Humans are destroying this planet and by the time people realize it it will be too late.

Does any other species have the sense of conservation we do?
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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Destroying the planet will harm us. Until we manage to perfect space travel and terraforming, we’re stuck on this rock. So it’s in our best interest to make it last as long as we can.

Focus on that and you might get somewhere in the wider debate.

How about we stop focusing on something that wont be possible for centuries and care about the rock we live on?

Did I stutter? I just told you to focus on that narrative. If people are as selfish as you claim, then fucking use that. It’ll do more good than your shaming tactics and “Thanos was right” bullshit.

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Window Land
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Postby Window Land » Tue May 21, 2019 10:07 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Why are you being so selfish? Who needs the Amazon? Lets cut it down for farmland or wood.

who needs birds? What purpose do they serve?

Sometime in the near distant future:

Child: Grandpa/Grandma what are birds and fish?

Grandpa/Grandma: Birds were creatures who flew in the sky and made nests in trees, sang beautiful songs and came in many sizes ands colors but we destroyed their homes to build cookie cutter housing. Fish swam in the ocean and came in many shapes and sizing but due to demand for food we oversfished and made them go extinct but i didnt care then nor did others. I’m sorry for the terrible world you inherited. I wish things could have been different for you.”

Trees are objectively beneficial for nearly every living being on this planet. Deforestation is an actual problem when we don’t replace them.

Now, what problem does the extinction of an obscure rodent on an island pose to the rest of the world?

The extinction of this one rodent may not cause significant harm to the island's ecosystem, but it is the canary in the coal mine that is earth's climate. Does the canary's death harm any of the miners or prevent them from doing their job? No. The miners have to pay attention anyway, because if the canary stops singing that means something is seriously wrong, and if something is seriously wrong in the mine it's time leave. Climate change's canaries have stopped singing, it's time to do something about it.
Last edited by Window Land on Tue May 21, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paradeavenlisian States
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Postby Paradeavenlisian States » Tue May 21, 2019 10:08 am

Petrolheadia wrote:Does any other species have the sense of conservation we do?

Well, of course not but that's only because we're by far the smartest species on this planet and for most other animals, their mind is pretty much focused on mating, eating, avoiding predators(if they have any) and, most importantly to them, surviving and for the non-human species that are quite intelligent compared to other animals, their mind is also focused on playing(sometimes with what would usually be their own food or when they are young and are playing together with their siblings) and sometimes socialising and, due to their instinct, a lot of the time, non-human species care only for their own species or themselves(but for a good reason) except for a few occasional cases and perhaps a few "collaborational" cases.
Last edited by Paradeavenlisian States on Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Tue May 21, 2019 10:09 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:Eh. It was a useless rat.

Less better than a useless cat, for example.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:10 am

Spearos wrote:Climate change deniers are a menace to society. We should shut down their sources of fake news and silence their voices so that future extinctions are prevented.


The biggest threat is the anti nuclear crowd.
They are worse than the deniers.
We would not be having this problem without them.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:12 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:Eh. It was a useless rat.


Air pollution kills millions of people every year though.
I will admit I am more worried about dying of air pollution tomorrow than the long term affects on the carbon cycle.

But nuclear power addresses both problems.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:14 am

Frolloist Union wrote:Climate change is a hoax


Do you think lung cancer is a hoax?

Air pollution is a much bigger problem than JUST the impact on the carbon cycle.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Tue May 21, 2019 10:16 am

Window Land wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Trees are objectively beneficial for nearly every living being on this planet. Deforestation is an actual problem when we don’t replace them.

Now, what problem does the extinction of an obscure rodent on an island pose to the rest of the world?

The extinction of this one rodent may not cause significant harm to the island's ecosystem, but it is the canary in the coal mine that is earth's climate. Does the canary's death harm any of the miners or prevent them from doing their job? No. The miners have to pay attention anyway because if the canary stops singing that means something is seriously wrong, and if something is seriously wrong in the mine it's time leave. Climate change's canaries have stopped singing, it's time to do something about it.

That’s what I’ve been saying. Focusing on the extinction of an objectively useless species will do little to convince people of climate change, however, and is thus not a good focus for the narrative. If environmentalists want to achieve change, they have to adjust their tactics.

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:19 am

Ors Might wrote:
Window Land wrote:The extinction of this one rodent may not cause significant harm to the island's ecosystem, but it is the canary in the coal mine that is earth's climate. Does the canary's death harm any of the miners or prevent them from doing their job? No. The miners have to pay attention anyway because if the canary stops singing that means something is seriously wrong, and if something is seriously wrong in the mine it's time leave. Climate change's canaries have stopped singing, it's time to do something about it.

That’s what I’ve been saying. Focusing on the extinction of an objectively useless species will do little to convince people of climate change, however, and is thus not a good focus for the narrative. If environmentalists want to achieve change, they have to adjust their tactics.


Most “environmentalists” are the enemy anyways they generally oppose nuclear power.

But yes, focusing on the millions dead from air pollution is a better approach than a rat dying, I certainly agree.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Paradeavenlisian States
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Postby Paradeavenlisian States » Tue May 21, 2019 10:19 am

Novus America wrote:
Spearos wrote:Climate change deniers are a menace to society. We should shut down their sources of fake news and silence their voices so that future extinctions are prevented.


The biggest threat is the anti nuclear crowd.
They are worse than the deniers.
We would not be having this problem without them.

Well, the reason for the anti nuclear crowd is because of the dangers that they can have as shown in Fukushima and Chernobyl and, therefore, being the most feared to the public community despite this rather surprising study regarding the safety of energy sources:https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/14/why-the-safest-form-of-power-is-also-the-most-fear.aspx

Also, just to remind you, nuclear energy isn't the only form of renewable energy so frankly, I don't personally think that the anti nuclear crowd is particularly much of a threat in regards to climate change. In fact, I believe people who think climate change is a hoax are a much bigger threat, as they are pretty much ignoring the studies and proofs of climate change being real and the risks they have on future lives of both humans and non-human animals.
Last edited by Paradeavenlisian States on Tue May 21, 2019 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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A mystical,isolated archipelagic nation, well known for its magicians, hobbit-like houses, phoenixes, devotion to social welfare and healthcare, its pecular energy, its isolation, its eco-friendly policies, and its hazardous permanent storm ring. The nation is packed with mystical creatures, landscapes, myths,legends, secrets, absurd natural phenomena, treasures, plants, structures, monuments, temples, and many other things found nowhere else.
In addition, we don't use all NS stats or policies and we are not defenceless either(yes I'm talking to you F7ers).
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 10:24 am

Paradeavenlisian States wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The biggest threat is the anti nuclear crowd.
They are worse than the deniers.
We would not be having this problem without them.

Well, the reason for the anti nuclear crowd is because of the dangers that they can have as shown in Fukushima and Chernobyl despite this rather surprising study regarding the safety of energy sources:https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/14/why-the-safest-form-of-power-is-also-the-most-fear.aspx

Also, just to remind you, nuclear energy isn't the only form of renewable energy so frankly, I don't personally think that the anti nuclear crowd is particularly much of a threat in regards to climate change.


Sure, people also drive instead of flying because they think flying is more dangerous.
They are still unreasonable and objectively wrong.
Nuclear is the safest, least land and resource intensive source of power.

The other sources are worse for the environment, more dangerous and do not produce enough reliable power to be the only sources.

And the anti Nuclear groups ARE the problem.

Nixon had a plan for the US to be producing pollution free power by 1980!
19 fucking 80!

If not for anti nuclear fanatics we would have fixed the power issue DECADES ago!
Last edited by Novus America on Tue May 21, 2019 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Antarctica 3
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Postby Antarctica 3 » Tue May 21, 2019 10:28 am

Frolloist Union wrote:Climate change is a hoax


Nice troll.
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Postby Shamhnan Insir » Tue May 21, 2019 11:01 am

This happens to be one rodent on a small island, in a relative backwater in terms of human interests. But this is just one little piece of the puzzle. Relatively unknown and often ignored species hold vital positions within ecosystems we very much rely upon. And we don't even know how complex and varied these ecosystems are.
We are facing a real threat to our civilisation. There is too much belligerence and greed on the world stage to put much faith in the coming tensions leading to an orderly, bloodless path of adapting to the changes. I would very much like if the UN had much more teeth in the modern world.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Tue May 21, 2019 12:16 pm

Antarctica 3 wrote:
Frolloist Union wrote:Climate change is a hoax


Nice troll.


You're fairly new, haven't posted much in General, and so may be unaware of some of the conventions of debating here.

From the One Stop Rules Shop:

-- Trollnaming is a post made only to call out a player suspected of trolling. This can also be considered flaming. Report trolls in Moderation. Don't name them in-thread, and if found, do not feed.


I'll let you off with a first offence slap on the wrist; but regardless of the provocation, please try and avoid this type of trollnaming in future. Thank you.

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Shamhnan Insir
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Postby Shamhnan Insir » Tue May 21, 2019 12:23 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:
Antarctica 3 wrote:
Nice troll.


You're fairly new, haven't posted much in General, and so may be unaware of some of the conventions of debating here.

From the One Stop Rules Shop:

-- Trollnaming is a post made only to call out a player suspected of trolling. This can also be considered flaming. Report trolls in Moderation. Don't name them in-thread, and if found, do not feed.


I'll let you off with a first offence slap on the wrist; but regardless of the provocation, please try and avoid this type of trollnaming in future. Thank you.

Trolls are one of the species that we just don't have the data for to predict how the changing climate will effect them.
Your standard bridge troll may loose its habitat through flooding of bridges or drying up of rivers leading to no use for bridges.
The Scandinavian trolls however, are much less predictable. They may escape their mountain and fjordland prisons....
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Borovan entered the region as he
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Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Tue May 21, 2019 2:13 pm

Oh wow an animal went extinct because of "climate change" every time the weather gets 4 degrees higher people point fingers at this so called "climate change"
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Postby Rio Cana » Tue May 21, 2019 2:16 pm

According to the following source, it was competition with other species and not flooding of the island due to climate change that caused the extinction of this rodent. The article says by the time the island was flooded that more then likely the rodents had already gone extinct.

Read - https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/27/ ... te-change/

Photo of the island - https://4k4oijnpiu3l4c3h-zippykid.netdn ... bc_460.jpg
Last edited by Rio Cana on Tue May 21, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby San Lumen » Tue May 21, 2019 2:19 pm

Novus America wrote:
Ors Might wrote:That’s what I’ve been saying. Focusing on the extinction of an objectively useless species will do little to convince people of climate change, however, and is thus not a good focus for the narrative. If environmentalists want to achieve change, they have to adjust their tactics.


Most “environmentalists” are the enemy anyways they generally oppose nuclear power.

But yes, focusing on the millions dead from air pollution is a better approach than a rat dying, I certainly agree.

Have you ever heard of Chernobyl?

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue May 21, 2019 2:30 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Most “environmentalists” are the enemy anyways they generally oppose nuclear power.

But yes, focusing on the millions dead from air pollution is a better approach than a rat dying, I certainly agree.

Have you ever heard of Chernobyl?


Yes.
Which could not happen with a a proper containment structure.
It is easy enough to prevent.

Obviously nobody wants to build that type of reactor in that configuration.

That is like saying all movies are bad because Jaws 4 was truly terrible.
Jaws 4 being a shit movie does not mean Citizen Kane was a shit movie.

A modern water moderated reactor in a proper containment structure is very different than a graphite moderated one with a removable cover.

And even including that nuclear objectively is the safest, least land and resource intensive.
It is not perfect but it is the best.
Last edited by Novus America on Tue May 21, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Postby Esternial » Tue May 21, 2019 2:37 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Might be more useful to explain to people how shocks to ecosystems, extinctions for example, could negatively impact humanity. There’s little reason to give a shit about non-human species that aren’t valuable to us in some way.

or just care about every species instead of being so selfish, Amazing concept i know.

Not sure if serious.

If you expect everyone to care about every species then you're more naïve than the people that think we can survive without them.

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Postby Northwest Slobovia » Tue May 21, 2019 3:06 pm

Deutschess Kaiserreich wrote:This is only the sign of our times. Climate change is now actually beginning to claim major species and effect major ecosystems but we must not forget that such solutions take time.

:eyebrow: I see you cleverly left off the next line in the original article, which ends with: "Bramble Cay, an island of just five hectares." Major ecosystem my ass.

There's also not much of a smoking gun here; the area's been hit by a few powerful storms. Any one of them could have wiped out the mouse and had nothing to do with global warming. All anybody knows is that a search didn't find the mouse there any more. As you may know, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence; the article even says, "Scientists say there is a chance that an identical or similar species could yet be discovered in PNG".
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 21, 2019 3:08 pm

It only gets worse from here.
What gets me is that we're making a big deal over this fairly inconsequential mammal, but few people seem to care about the wide-reaching implications of krill depopulation.
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 21, 2019 3:10 pm

Borovan entered the region as he wrote:Oh wow an animal went extinct because of "climate change" every time the weather gets 4 degrees higher people point fingers at this so called "climate change"

Do you have any idea how horribly disastrous a real 4 degree rise in global temperatures would be? We're not quite there yet, but it would be so much worse than the current issues. You obviously know nothing about climate change.
⮽⮽⮽ Copy and paste this in your sig if you hate the idiotic meme that your grade in 9th grade biology has literally anything to do with your fake-edgy views on gender. ⮽⮽⮽
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Cockroaches are smart.
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♾♾♾ ATTENTION: SPOOKY CONTENT AHEAD ♾♾♾
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Nova Cyberia
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Postby Nova Cyberia » Tue May 21, 2019 3:38 pm

Get your nuclear power up, son.
Yes, yes, I'm racist and fascist because I disagree with you. Can we skip that part? I've heard it a million times before and I guarantee it won't be any different when you do it.

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